Dystopic Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 To everyone saying they need a nerf, precisely what would you propose anyway? When people wanted ops nerfed they were pretty specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaegeo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sorc is fine the way it is. They are squishy, but dangerous, as how they should be. If you put two people, equal geared to a sorc, on him, he is dead (assuming they play smart, use interrupts and cc smart). One on one, it is who is the better player. Big numbers on the score sheet do not mean much. They may have a lot of kills listed, but thats due to aoe splash damage. Anyone who plays a sage or sorc knows, without guard or a pocket healer, we go down like a drunk prom date. You give anyone a pocket healer or guard and they put out impressive numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBoz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is because you seem to think that they can heal AND dps as if there is a hybrid build that allows them to do both. This is wrong. There exists a build that allows for both healing, CC and DPS. Put a little bit in the first tree. Put a little more in the second. Ignore the third. Profit. L2P your own class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This is wrong. There exists a build that allows for both healing, CC and DPS. Put a little bit in the first tree. Put a little more in the second. Ignore the third. Profit. L2P your own class. That build has no longevity. You run out of force. It doesn't get salvation or healing touch either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sorc is fine the way it is. They are squishy, but dangerous, as how they should be. If you put two people, equal geared to a sorc, on him, he is dead (assuming they play smart, use interrupts and cc smart). One on one, it is who is the better player. Big numbers on the score sheet do not mean much. They may have a lot of kills listed, but thats due to aoe splash damage. Anyone who plays a sage or sorc knows, without guard or a pocket healer, we go down like a drunk prom date. You give anyone a pocket healer or guard and they put out impressive numbers. Well of the course the guy who couldn't beat someone 5 levels below him in the open world is going to say this. You need all the help you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Vampirius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The class is overpowered. Way too much utility is packed into it. It's not really a numbers argument, but rather the toolkit itself. Your avatar is a BH... a class that has almost the exact same toolkit, but in better armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) This is wrong. There exists a build that allows for both healing, CC and DPS. Put a little bit in the first tree. Put a little more in the second. Ignore the third. Profit. L2P your own class. Posts like this make me smile. Yes, gimp yourself in EVERY field. L2P. There are many more contenders to be nerfed before sorc/sage. Edited January 25, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 They are squishy, but dangerous, as how they should be. If you put two people, equal geared to a sorc, on him, he is dead (assuming they play smart, use interrupts and cc smart). If you put two people, equal geared to a sorc, on him, he is dead (assuming they play smart, use interrupts and cc smart). If you put two people, equal geared to a sorc, on him, he is dead (assuming they play smart, use interrupts and cc smart). And you REALLY say sorc is fine? You can't be believing it yourself. Oh wait, I've said it earlier, complete and utter denial. Ok, so you actually can believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBoz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That build has no longevity. You run out of force. It doesn't get salvation or healing touch either. So the downside of the build is, instead of getting killed, you actually get to spend your deep pool of force? Yeah, not really a problem. As for suggested fixes, tree rebalancing. They have way too much good stuff in the entry tiers of the first two trees, and reaching higher tree tiers is not really effective compared to how much you can get with a little of this, a little of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aishiki Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Again I remind you, for PT/Vanguard QQer --> http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=222384. If you cannot beat us, you're bad or your opponent is better than you. Accept it, live with it. Please show us a video or two about how OP our class is. The same proof that you have when you brought ops/scoundrels down. Show us that we can outheal your DPS as lv 50s similar expertise AND kill you at the same time. This is wrong. There exists a build that allows for both healing, CC and DPS. Put a little bit in the first tree. Put a little more in the second. Ignore the third. Profit. L2P your own class. We can reduce to interruptable 2.3sec cast time heal. Higher on the spec tree, we get weak HoT and to compensate we lost out on the dot/dps tree. Furthermore, without being able to get healing trance, this build is just gonna **** our force dry. Whoever has that kind of build would just be a sitting duck in a lengthy match. Next? If you guys have spent as much energy on learning, you could've countered us by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Your avatar is a BH... a class that has almost the exact same toolkit, but in better armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) So the downside of the build is, instead of getting killed, you actually get to spend your deep pool of force? Yeah, not really a problem. As for suggested fixes, tree rebalancing. They have way too much good stuff in the entry tiers of the first two trees, and reaching higher tree tiers is not really effective compared to how much you can get with a little of this, a little of that. You're main heal costs just under 50 force with that build. The bubble is going to be around 35 and the HOT (to agument the main heal into a 1.5 second cast) I think costs around 50 as well. You are really not going to last long at all with that build. 600 force looks like a lot but when you run out it's gone. It regens incredibly slow without the proper talents which are deep in the healing tree. And that's just the healing abilities, DPS ones are not free. You will quickly become useless to your team with that kind of hybrid build. Edited January 25, 2012 by Dystopic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBoz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We can reduce to interruptable 2.3sec cast time heal. Higher on the spec tree, we get weak HoT and to compensate we lost out on the dot/dps tree. Furthermore, without being able to get healing trance, this build is just gonna **** our force dry. Whoever has that kind of build would just be a sitting duck in a lengthy match. Next? So when every other class is dead, the Sorc is just empty? Oh, poor baby... How I cry for thee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorfar Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'd agree with you but, alas, I can not. Mainly because any nerf to the sorc class at this point would make the class absolutely useless in PVE and PVP. the sorc has utility, and has sustained damage, not burst, nothing insane compared to other classes. The bubble is a joke at best, please, anyone can burst down the shield in one hit, once it's gone the sorc has NO survivability or ability to mitigate damage. Also, for you to attain the numbers posted above, you had a pocket healer, grats, this feat can be accomplished by any class. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 the only thing that needs to be nerfed on sorcerer's is the ability to put bubble on everyone. they should only be able to bubble themselves & their companions. being able to bubble your whole team is OP. the other healers can only shield themself and doesn't last as long as the sorcerer's/sage's. their is no reason why they can bubble everyone on their team. and then just spam force lightning (which becomes a free talent) to rebuild force when needed, so they can re bubble their self and team mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crummosh Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So the downside of the build is, instead of getting killed, you actually get to spend your deep pool of force? Yeah, not really a problem. As for suggested fixes, tree rebalancing. They have way too much good stuff in the entry tiers of the first two trees, and reaching higher tree tiers is not really effective compared to how much you can get with a little of this, a little of that. Would love to play one tree but it's impossible, maybe except for madness, but it really doesn't have burst that way. Full lighting is a no go in pvp, because you need to cast too much and use lighting strike which is pathetic. People should actually try to play the class before saying anything. I don't have good gear atm, so it might change (6 pieces champion but not set pieces, rest is moddable with some epic 50 mod and some blu) but I get destroyed by decently geared players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revsx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Again, just know how to react to things. Any form of stun or closing or pulling pretty much nullifies force speed, and then the sorcerer is as good as dead with force speed being on a pretty long cooldown. Sorcerer has a lot of spells, and a lot of utilities to keep themselves alive. They're no different from any other clothie caster in other games. All you have to do to kill sorcerers is just to know what to do and when to do it. Know what to interrupt and what not to. Interrupt dark mending, not that fast cast heal. Know when to stun and when not to. Stun when the shield debuff is about to fade, not randomly. Know when you use your closing spell and when not to. Close when they force speed so the immobilizing effect lasts through the force speed. The same applies to any forum of speed debuff. Force speed overrides the existing speed debuffs, but a newly applied debuff will completely gimp force speed. Knowing when to chase and when to just switch target. If your target sorcerer is a good healer, and you're not outgearing him, you're not going to kill him 1v1. Being able to kill a healer 1v1 makes healing pointless. However, it is very easy to shut a healing sorcerer down by interrupting and doing enough damage so the heals are focused on the sorcerer himself. L2P issue. That's the truth. Any good end-game PvPer of any class will tell you it is not hard to kill a sorcerer. This, can't believe it. Someone who actually understands class mechanics, i wouldn't want to face you 1vs1 with my sorc. Refreshing to read this post after xx pages of whine, made up proof and flawed arguments. Can't believe how many people lack the self-respect to educate themselves about class mechanics and would rather revert to fill the forums with fallacies. Weird thing is a lot of people I face in the 50's bracket know exactly how to counter a sorc like myself using the methods you described. But i rarely see them on these forums, guess they gave up trying to explain the same thing over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazehound Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I specced healing, and maybe I'm doing it wrong, but usually, best I can do is keep one or two guys from being obliterated in a 1v1 or 2v1 enviroment. I would like to see OPs skill tree. and yeah, I die a lot too. As sniper, I feel I actually do better at that in some cases because I can pick off someone already in a fight fast. Edited January 25, 2012 by Blazehound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aishiki Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So when every other class is dead, the Sorc is just empty? Oh, poor baby... How I cry for thee. No force = no kill????????? WTS> common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBoz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Would love to play one tree but it's impossible, maybe except for madness, but it really doesn't have burst that way. Full lighting is a no go in pvp, because you need to cast too much and use lighting strike which is pathetic. People should actually try to play the class before saying anything. I don't have good gear atm, so it might change (6 pieces champion but not set pieces, rest is moddable with some epic 50 mod and some blu) but I get destroyed by decently geared players. I agree, the devs scrude up and going full tree is a bad idea. That's why I said the tiers should be rearranged, and a force builder should be added to tier 5 or 6 of every tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 the only thing that needs to be nerfed on sorcerer's is the ability to put bubble on everyone. they should only be able to bubble themselves & their companions. being able to bubble your whole team is OP. the other healers can only shield themself and doesn't last as long as the sorcerer's/sage's. their is no reason why they can bubble everyone on their team. and then just spam force lightning (which becomes a free talent) to rebuild force when needed, so they can re bubble their self and team mates. Why don't you try playing a healing sage first? I could understand making bubbling others a deep healing only talent but removing it entirely would completely break the class in pvp and pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaegeo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You put two people on a BH and he sits there and laughs as he kills them both. You put two people on an op or shadow, they vanish till they can take one or the other. You put two people on a sorc, you get a dead sorc. One on one should always be about who gets the jump on who and who has better understanding of their class (no faster fingers on a keyboard). It should always be a question, and it is. If I fight a bad op, he goes down easy, I fight a good op and he knows his class, I miss one cc or bubble and im dead. As it shoudl be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So when every other class is dead, the Sorc is just empty? Oh, poor baby... How I cry for thee. Won't happen. With that build you will be a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaegeo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 And stop talking about the bubble like it is some godsend. We have to have it up to survive. It absorbs 1 hit at 50. ONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaegeo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Compare it to the shield that reduces all my damge to single numbers for each hit for MUCH longer than my bubble will last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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