Uilamin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 One of the biggest issues people complain about with sorcs/sages is the bubble. The bubble is the only ward in game and is the sorcs/sages only real instant cast 'heal' of any substance. One of the problems with it though is a dps sorc/sage essentially has the same access to a buffed version of it that healing sages/sorcs do. [in terms of sorcs] One of the reasons for this is that the skill tree ability that increases the potency of the shield is found in the DPS tree (lightening) and not in the healing tree. Currently the healing tree has two abilities that are DPS-ish, especially in terms of pvp survivability (movement speed increase on use of the bubble for a few seconds and a slow tied in with their instant cast dot). If the increased potency of the bubble ability was switched with movement speed it would decrease the survivability of DPS sorcs (to incoming damage) while not touching the utility of heal sorcs. As a side note for people unfamiliar with the sorc/sage skill tree - the potency buff to the shield while in a DPS tree currently is only in the second level and usually taken by heal sorcs/sages so the change would not be giving heal sorcs/sages a buff by changing how the ability is accessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 One of the biggest issues people complain about with sorcs/sages is the bubble. The bubble is the only ward in game and is the sorcs/sages only real instant cast 'heal' of any substance. One of the problems with it though is a dps sorc/sage essentially has the same access to a buffed version of it that healing sages/sorcs do. [in terms of sorcs] One of the reasons for this is that the skill tree ability that increases the potency of the shield is found in the DPS tree (lightening) and not in the healing tree. Currently the healing tree has two abilities that are DPS-ish, especially in terms of pvp survivability (movement speed increase on use of the bubble for a few seconds and a slow tied in with their instant cast dot). If the increased potency of the bubble ability was switched with movement speed it would decrease the survivability of DPS sorcs (to incoming damage) while not touching the utility of heal sorcs. As a side note for people unfamiliar with the sorc/sage skill tree - the potency buff to the shield while in a DPS tree currently is only in the second level and usually taken by heal sorcs/sages so the change would not be giving heal sorcs/sages a buff by changing how the ability is accessed. ...and once that super bubble that is the best damage mitigating defense in the game breaks (if specc'd correctly) it knocks back everyone and the Sorc/Sage sprints away to heal. These two classes are so F-ing broken it's rediculous. Nothing is going to change though, the vast majority of players play these two classes. LOL...so broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokai Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ...and once that super bubble that is the best damage mitigating defense in the game breaks (if specc'd correctly) it knocks back everyone and the Sorc/Sage sprints away to heal. These two classes are so F-ing broken it's rediculous. Nothing is going to change though, the vast majority of players play these two classes. LOL...so broken. knocks back? last i checked it only blinded with a CC and deep lightning most don't go that deep, or are you just refering to using aoe knock back? or maybe sage spec is differant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhazesx Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What does this knockback blind look like? I'm curious about this cause no matter how many sorcerers I kill or fight against I have never been blinded not once. Does your screen go black or all white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejita Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Its actually not just the buble, its everything they have ranging from CC to slows to incombat sprint to healing, they all need to be nerfed across the board to make them balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venilator Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Oops wrong thread. Edited January 24, 2012 by Venilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uilamin Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 ...and once that super bubble that is the best damage mitigating defense in the game breaks (if specc'd correctly) it knocks back everyone and the Sorc/Sage sprints away to heal. These two classes are so F-ing broken it's rediculous. Nothing is going to change though, the vast majority of players play these two classes. LOL...so broken. The speed increase only lasts for the first 6s of the bubble, so in some cases that would be true but in most cases it would not be. It is also only a 20% speed buff with two points put into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dastion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The speed is only 3 seconds . Gotta love the ignorance. Yes, if you break my shield you'll be knocked back, blinded, and hit for 5k. Please everyone believe this, especially you damn ops/scrapers that eat me alive unless I have my CC break up. With that said, our shield IS powerful. But it's powerful for a reason, we're a light armor class with zero defensive CDs. We need that shield for dps survivability and it's clutch to our healing potential. The reason it seems so powerful is because of it's long duration. I can precast it and have a window of 10 seconds (13s w/ set bonus) to recast it, essentially making you break through 5k before you touch my health. What's more is that since I usually cast it before combat, the initial shield isn't effected by Trauma's heal debuff. I fight Sorcs too you know, there are quite a few of them. I know how hard it is to break through that initial double shield. But once it's down I eat them alive. All of their heals but 1 are easily interrupted, and the one instant one is a weak HoT. However, I do expect a shield nerf. I hope they don't over nerf us like OPs and use their heads. They just need to reduce the duration of the shield to 10-15s to make it less pre-cast able. A smart Sorc healer will have his entire team shielded at the start of a match, and that's silly. In the meantime, learn to how the class works so you can counter it. Don't interrupt Innervate/Healing Trance. Those are channels that will get half their healing off before you interrupt and are on a 9s CD anyhow. Look for Dark Heal/Benevolence, our fast spam heal. Interrupt us then stun as when we cast the big heals Dark Infusion/Deliverance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paltheor Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I agree with the suggestion of moving the talent in lightening into deep healing. Its actually to the point where i re-specced dps in Warzones because of the lack of medals. I noticed that my healing has been relatively untouched since going into the lightning/madness trees. My bubble does absorb the same amount, which is, as a healer, the single biggest heal in a sorcerers arsenal, and i find that rediculous. Just from keeping my bubble up in a wz, i heal 100k every match while always getting 300k+ damage. Changing the cool down on bubble would be a relatively bad idea, as being able to spam bubbles on your teammates is the best aoe we currently have. If our aoe heal actually, you know, did its initial heal like the sage counterpart maybe it would be acceptable. Also, the blind on our bubble breaking isnt OP, in fact most sorcerers dont take it. It is only a 3 second blind and it breaks on damage. Any good sorcerer will have a dot on you and be using your resolve bar for better CC, such as our knock back(with a root attached) or our instant whirlwind with a 2 second stun on it when broken from damage. Overall, from my experience, our damage is just fine. Interrupt force lightning and you will stop a sorcerer from not only getting their main dot on you, but stop them from using their one and only burst damage as you counter their wrath procs. Unlike operatives, you don't need a 2 minute trinket to avoid death, just a little class knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Vampirius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Love seeing nerf suggestions from people who don't even know how the class works. Again, without video proof, no class should be nerfed. OP/Scoundrel had video of a dude buff stacking and 3 shotting people. So, buff stacking and OPs got nerfed. There is no proof out there of Sorc/Sage being OP. They are basically the exact same class as Merc, except Merc gets Medium armor and Sorc gets a bubble that breaks in 1 hit and has a 20 second cooldown. L2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miothan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Love seeing nerf suggestions from people who don't even know how the class works. Again, without video proof, no class should be nerfed. OP/Scoundrel had video of a dude buff stacking and 3 shotting people. So, buff stacking and OPs got nerfed. There is no proof out there of Sorc/Sage being OP. They are basically the exact same class as Merc, except Merc gets Medium armor and Sorc gets a bubble that breaks in 1 hit and has a 20 second cooldown. L2P. Have to agree with this poster, the shield is not OP in any way. It absorbs about 3k dmg, who the heck doesnt crit 3k+ in a warzone? l2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJSY Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Bubble isn't an issue for me, they need it in my opinion otherwise they'd be too easy to kill for me.(see below). My personal issue with fighting these classes 1 on 1 as a Guardian(tank or dps, it doesn't matter) is that they can knock me back (seem to be rooted or stunned at the same time, this a talent?) and they can then create a gap so far with their speed boost they come out of combat and can use their seethe/rest ability. First time it doesn't work of course, I always save my "break-free" for that trick, but the problem is they can do it again 2-3 more times before I can use said break free, long enough so that my resolve never fills up and long enough to get away and even as a DPS spec, heal up a considerable amount. But... this could be all down to the fact my AOE snare is 6 seconds and the sith warriors version is 9 seconds, next patch mine is also 9 seconds, this could change the fight a whole lot because it's often those last few seconds that count in guardian vs sorc fights. . However, I did almost kill said Sorc 3 times over "from fresh" before he killed me, purely because most of my class specific cooldowns are on epically long timers compared to his and starting a fight over for him fresh with all of mine down hurts. If I could keep him closer more often, we'd be too overpowered (guardians/juggs) but they should not be able to "leave a fight/reset a fight" without punishment or fear and with such undeniable ease. Edited January 25, 2012 by ChrisJSY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haralin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I hope the will hit with the nerf bat as hard as for scoundrels i will like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritlord Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The speed is only 3 seconds . Gotta love the ignorance. Yes, if you break my shield you'll be knocked back, blinded, and hit for 5k. Please everyone believe this, especially you damn ops/scrapers that eat me alive unless I have my CC break up. With that said, our shield IS powerful. But it's powerful for a reason, we're a light armor class with zero defensive CDs. We need that shield for dps survivability and it's clutch to our healing potential. The reason it seems so powerful is because of it's long duration. I can precast it and have a window of 10 seconds (13s w/ set bonus) to recast it, essentially making you break through 5k before you touch my health. What's more is that since I usually cast it before combat, the initial shield isn't effected by Trauma's heal debuff. I fight Sorcs too you know, there are quite a few of them. I know how hard it is to break through that initial double shield. But once it's down I eat them alive. All of their heals but 1 are easily interrupted, and the one instant one is a weak HoT. However, I do expect a shield nerf. I hope they don't over nerf us like OPs and use their heads. They just need to reduce the duration of the shield to 10-15s to make it less pre-cast able. A smart Sorc healer will have his entire team shielded at the start of a match, and that's silly. In the meantime, learn to how the class works so you can counter it. Don't interrupt Innervate/Healing Trance. Those are channels that will get half their healing off before you interrupt and are on a 9s CD anyhow. Look for Dark Heal/Benevolence, our fast spam heal. Interrupt us then stun as when we cast the big heals Dark Infusion/Deliverance. A 3 second speed increase is a lot in huttball when no one else has one like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallowen Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 nerf them to the point where hardly anyone plays them anymore, then you will know what its like for operatives/scoundrals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomfedj Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 wish i could face more sages, i only fight them in huttball, but honestly i die more to sith inquisitors more than ANY other class in the game, but overall i figure that is because about 1/3 of empire is sith inquisitors, the problem i have with em is as a scoundrel i can not kill them if attacked at range, no matter what i do, you can't run away it is channeled lighting+root... you can't close once again channeled lighting+root. if you do close on em, and you can't root them it is lighting root (if they have it up) otherwise knockback then channeled lightening+root.... once my CC break is gone, i am screwed because their roots are unaffected by resolve... *shrug* yeah i know that is how it hsould be, but i am sorry it sure seems to me that they are the best dps and healing class in the game! so as so many inqui's and sage's have said about operatives/scoundrels.. NERF SAGES/INQUIS and when they do.. as those same players said "QQ more LTP!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomfedj Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think this post, and the image i think answer the question of which class is really op *rofl* op because everyone is rolling one.. hahahahaha that picture is funny.. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2135470 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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