Sorc/Sages mitigate more damage than tanks.

[Raque]

I am beginning to think that what they OP thought was the Sorcerer's bubble was actually the Guard buff showing up from another tank doing their thing (which also puts a bubble graphic around the person they are guarding if they are in range) . Combined with the Sorcerer's escort tank debuffing everyone around would make the Sorcerer feel like a tank as they would be taking 1/2 the damage they normally would and possibly better then an undergeared tank in pvp....but that really has little to do with the Sorcerer and more to do with the escort tank. Edited January 24, 2012 by Raque

[Whosthetank]

I am beginning to think that what they OP thought was the Sorcerer's bubble was actually the Guard buff showing up from another tank doing their thing (which also puts a bubble around the person they are guarding if they are in range) . Combined with the Sorcerer's escort tank debuffing everyone around would make the Sorcerer feel like a tank as they would be taking 1/2 the damage they normally would and possibly better then an undergeared tank in pvp....but that really has little to do with the Sorcerer and more to do with the escort tank.

 

50% dmg split + 30% less dmg from everyone around you is more then 50% ^^

[glenbruton]

Ya, thats it, I must be awful.

 

I never said anything about tank gear, but just gear in general as being naked is the ONLY way a tank would take more damage then a Sorc.

 

You realize our shield only mitigates 3-4k damage and can only be applied every 20 seconds (17 with 2 piece healer set bonus). As I wear cloth armor, the armor I wear mitigates very little unlike a tank's gear. I have ~15.5k ish health in my pvp gear and equally geared tanks are in the ~19k ish range so even with my shield we have about the same HP to death but I have no mitigation, no defensive cooldowns, and longer refresh timers on my control cooldowns.

 

You are crazy if you do not think tanks can mitigate more damage, especially with defensive cooldowns, and control they have they are crazy indestructible.

 

your assuming here that armour mitigates. Half the classes do damage types that bypass it. Shields mitigate ALL damage types.

[Raque]

50% dmg split + 30% less dmg from everyone around you is more then 50% ^^

Ok, they were taking 35% of the damage they normally would (50% of 70%), but it still had everything to do with the tank and nothing to do with the person they were guarding and has a similar graphic to the Sorcerer's bubble....which only takes 3-4k damage and can be applied every 20 seconds and is obviously far less powerful then guard is (not complaining, just stating the obvious because all these claims of it absorbing 30k health are ridiculous).

[Iamurfriend]

Wait, you saw a sorc with 75-100k protection? Sorcs get guard?

 

lol this is why you can't take all this qq about sorcs seriously. People are much more willing to lie to other and themselves then realize they are just bad. How can we take anything you say seriously when you claim a sorc had 75-100k protection? HOW???

[Bullsith]

lol this is why you can't take all this qq about sorcs seriously. People are much more willing to lie to other and themselves then realize they are just bad. How can we take anything you say seriously when you claim a sorc had 75-100k protection? HOW???

 

It is doable.

[Kaptain_Kabul]

im a 635 exp sin, 56 valor, 400, Synthweaving, see my stats are better then urs, all of them infact, so my opinion must matter more, thats why im telling u all of this!

 

(No joke about the stats tho heeheee)

 

Sorry to ask but how did you manage to get 635 exp without BM gear, since you are only valor 56 and that is only possible to get with 60.

 

I'am just asking if i missed a slot for a piece to get the needed exp on my toon with full T2.

 

Or u just made those numbers up which would make your post look pretty silly.

[Raque]

your assuming here that armour mitigates. Half the classes do damage types that bypass it. Shields mitigate ALL damage types.

The vast majority of all damage in this game is "energy", "kinetic", or "weapon" damage and all of those are mitigated by armor.

 

Very few abilities are "internal" or "elemental" damage that avoid it (unless you are a pyrotech in which pretty much everything is "elemental").

[Whosthetank]

Sorry to ask but how did you manage to get 635 exp without BM gear, since you are only valor 56 and that is only possible to get with 60.

 

I'am just asking if i missed a slot for a piece to get the needed exp on my toon with full T2.

 

Or u just made those numbers up which would make your post look pretty silly.

 

Ehh ? i even have 2 pices of Cent, i have 635 expertise ... maybe u miss the MH or the relics ?

 

Keep in mind that the cent relics dont give expertise, while the champ ones do

Edited January 24, 2012 by Whosthetank

[Kholvan]

It is doable.

 

I haven't studied the other trees besides Corruption very much - what's the sorc skill that gives even a single point of protection? Static Barrier doesn't, and it's the obvious "protectish" skill.

[Loxion]

I actually see a lot of Vanguards who DPS spec and still use Ion Cell to get the best of both worlds and they seem to do well.

 

Totally agree and that is my point exactly. That spec is useful because you increase your DPS and loose absolutely minimal tank because armor mitigation is almost the only tank defence you have (apart from against basic ranged and melee attacks).

 

BW said that all roles are viable in PvP, however this quite simply isn't the case as it currently stands. If I wanted to play DPS I would have rolled Commando

 

Armor is the best mitigation tool a tank has, that and stacking endurance. The problem is that a dps spec PT can achieve relatively similar levels of mitigation while increasing damage output 3 fold. This is the disparity that most tanks are complaining about.

 

You mean the ONLY mitigation a tank has, and I fully agree. A tank spec should have more mitigation because they have significantly reduced DPS. To be hoenst, I had concerns from day one when they designed a DPS class with heavy armor, generally a level of balance is achieve by sacrificing one for the other.

 

I can defeat this argument in 3 words: "bubble the tank"

 

/thread

 

That does work quite well, however you shouldn't have to because they should be a tank anyway. Skills like that should be used to save squishy classes.

[Ravenolf]

Very interesting. I was thinking the healing was op, but this bubble may be the culprit.

[cashogy]

if youre being destroyed like that as a tank, youre doing something wrong. there a few tanks ive played against on the fatman, and they just dont die. ive seen one guy literally go coast-to-coast with the huttball himself, and he just tanked through everything and kept on walking.

[Hawox]

I think its ok to see threads like this once in a while.

I mean, my sin friend got reported for hacking in Huttball when i force pulled him up to a ledge as a sorc. Guy thought he was teleporting around the place :/ shows how much ppl know about the game.

[Northwynde]

if youre being destroyed like that as a tank, youre doing something wrong. there a few tanks ive played against on the fatman, and they just dont die. ive seen one guy literally go coast-to-coast with the huttball himself, and he just tanked through everything and kept on walking.

 

What they are doing wrong is not having lots of expertise. It is night and day difference with 580 expertise now, enough of a difference that I am swapping out tank gear for the dps set as I get dupes.

[Piriste]

You realize our shield only mitigates 3-4k damage and can only be applied every 20 seconds (17 with 2 piece healer set bonus).

 

I might be seeing wrong. But did you just say ONLY 3-4k shield every 20 SECONDS?

 

Yeah that's like any other class, right?

 

...

[DestyOwn]

the shield is too good period.

[Zarthorn]

Thanks for showing us you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making stuff up. A sorcerer will never have any protection points at the end of a match. I can see how you might be confused since Assassins have the same icon as Sorcerers, but believe it or not they are not the same AC.

 

Please stop spreading misinformation and actually backup your claims. Static barrier does not and never has given credit for protection on the scoreboard/medals. At the end of these matches where Sorcerers are getting any protection, screenshot the scoreboard. I would love to see any proof of your claims.

 

Considering medkits dont count for healing anymore and you can see that person with 90k protection and 200k healing has healing medals then its clearly a sorc.

 

This appears to be a bug with the group shield, either way its still not right.

[Sinule]

I've never gotten a single point of protection in warzones on my healing specced sorc, and I pop my shield on people all the time... The sorc shield counts as healing done (apparently, I haven't verified this). It does not count as protection. Being able to pop a shield on yourself once every 20 seconds (17 with set bonus) really isn't that big a deal.

 

When I'm being hit by anyone but some useless green geared scrub my shield is usually gone in 3-4 seconds. Take into consideration the gcd it costs (not to mention the 4 talent points I've invested in it) and all it really does is give 1.5-2 seconds of breathing room to get off a heal, stun or a force slow and run for some cover to line of sight whoever is ripping me apart.

 

Remember that aside from a pitiful amount of armor and our self buff, we have no mitigation to speak of. Let look at the comment for this ability from torhead:

 

At level 50, Static Barrier absorbs 1162 + 327% of Force Healing Bonus before talents.

 

With the Lightning tree talent Lightning Barrier, this puts the absorption at around 3200 damage in Rakata operations gear, 12-15% of the max HP of a similarly geared tank.

 

I've no idea where he got those numbers from, they may or may not be correct, but it does feel about right to me. So for your average player, you're looking at a barrier of 2800-3300 when talented. Be honest, that isn't all that much, once every 20 seconds....

[uk-NoEqual]

When you see 3 dps unable to kill a sorc, yet the same 3 dps can drop your tank in under 4 seconds.. well; something is wrong.

 

3 DPS on 1 sorc and you cant drop him? Wow, either the DPS is really bad or your making stuff up, and im guessing the later.

[Axethales]

This is very true, tank mitigation sucks and everyone playing a tank is complaing about our survivability.

 

We sacrifice DPS for what is supposed to be survivability, which we simply don't have.

 

At best we have 10-20% more health than CASTERS - we should have like 50% more and maybe that is not enough.

 

Some heroic flashpoints can tank a fully geared 19k health tank down to 20% in one hit.

[chungkuo]

The OP was referring to the fact that Shields and the Defense stat are somewhat useless in pvp given the number of attacks that ignore the shield completely. While a tank's base mitigation is higher than a dps spec, PvP gear for tanks is full of useless stats.

 

This has been discussed at length with video evidence here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034

 

Video:

 

 

Tanks do not scale with their gear. You are better off as a pvp tank using the dps gear.

 

Here is the TLDR version:

Shield rating, sheild absorbtion, and defense rating don't actually work...

Internal and Elemental damage completely ignores armor... and these damage types are the largest.

You can't shield critical hits.

PvP gear is covered in useless stats because of these factors.

[Ntranced]

Sigh. Another day and another completely baseless "nerf sorcs" thread full of misinformation (at best) or just outright lies. I find it hard to believe there are so many completely clueless players out there but I guess my faith in the intelligence of most players must be misplaced.

 

It is either that or people just make stuff up because they are simply bad players.

 

I preferred the system in warhammer forums, when someone trolled as badly as this you could just look up their main character and discover they were actually (for example) a level 20 Operative that was about to get nerfed or was known to be a completely useless player on a server. Saved a lot of time.

 

Anyway, sounds to me more like tanks need looking at than anything else.

[OsirisZoran]

This is very true, tank mitigation sucks and everyone playing a tank is complaing about our survivability.

 

We sacrifice DPS for what is supposed to be survivability, which we simply don't have.

 

At best we have 10-20% more health than CASTERS - we should have like 50% more and maybe that is not enough.

 

Some heroic flashpoints can tank a fully geared 19k health tank down to 20% in one hit.

 

i have 16.8k hp when buffed. my tank friend has 21k hp when buffed. Correct my math but thats more than 20% hp.

 

Tanks have amazing survivability in pvp get a pocket healer and you will never die. I also have full champion and some BM gear while he has champion/centurion.

Edited January 25, 2012 by OsirisZoran

[Kholvan]

Considering medkits dont count for healing anymore and you can see that person with 90k protection and 200k healing has healing medals then its clearly a sorc.

 

 

Sorcerors can not get any protection. They have no skills (nor does the base Sith Inquisitor line) that offer even a single point of protection. If there is protection, they can not possibly be a sorcerer.

 

Static Barrier does not get credited as protection in warzones.