Double-bladed lightsaber why must we use this?

[Fokias]

If my abilities said "Require Double-Bladed Lightsaber or Electrostaff" I'd be a happy man.

[TheWillDudley]

I picked this class based solely on the double-bladed lightsaber

[gurugeorge]

They could have given jedi/sith different styles of animations. But they didn't .

 

Erm, are you sure about that? First thing I noticed on my JK as opposed to SW is that the second attack was very different (Slash for the JK, can't remember what it's called for the SW). The JK has an elegant twiddly attack (like it has a feint in it), whereas the SW has a plain, brutal overhead smash. I didn't go much further with my SW yet, but I can't see BW dropping the ball with this.

[Jimbe]

Is there a significant lore reason that shadow's have to use a double bladed lightsaber? I realize that it's a manner of distinguishing the class but I don't understand why they couldn't provide me the option of using a single lightsaber (the quintessential Jedi weapon of choice) and still use my class abilities. Was this perhaps an animation issue?

 

Because Bioware says so.

 

I argued against lightsaber restrictions alot pre-release along with many others.

But alas Bioware opted to remove customization in favour of classes being "identifiable" in combat.

 

This game is rather lacking in the character customization department.

[oddmyth]

Not sure I see how it's WoW-think, but that still leaves us with a Double-Bladed lightsaber versus one single-bladed saber, not two.

 

Look at what I quoted and how it applies.

 

In WoW a two handed weapon deals greater damage than a single handed weapon. However you don't get to equip anything in your offhand slot, meaning its possible to customize the stats of your 1h+offhand character more than your 2H wielding character.

 

In SWTOR you can equip a MH+offhand combo period, no stat discrepancies exist and weapon damage is the same across the board.

[StainedLotus]

It's not a Sith specific weapon, at least if you go through and look at the EU. Just because it's not in the movies doesn't mean it can't be either. You have to remember that in the movies and even more so in the original trilogy you are looking at a much diminished Jedi order too.

 

Actually it was a weapon created by the sith. It is referred to as the "Sith Lightaber". Exar Kun got the design for his from Sith holocrons I believe. It is a weapon of death that requires and aggressive battle style which the jedi frowned upon because it could lead to the dark side.

[Rasheth]

Because Bioware says so.

 

I argued against lightsaber restrictions alot pre-release along with many others.

But alas Bioware opted to remove customization in favour of classes being "identifiable" in combat.

 

This game is rather lacking in the character customization department.

 

I mean you could always just use a 1 lightsaber. All the classes can use a light saber, or vibrosword. I think you an equip techblade. I know on my sentinel I can use a techblade in one hand and lightsaber in the other.

 

I really have no problems with the lightsaber restrictions but to each their own I guess. The class desciptions all tell you what weapons you get. Plus its still early and who knows what opens up later down the road.

[Ahrounmoon]

Actually it was a weapon created by the sith. It is referred to as the "Sith Lightaber". Exar Kun got the design for his from Sith holocrons I believe. It is a weapon of death that requires and aggressive battle style which the jedi frowned upon because it could lead to the dark side.

 

I'm not sure who made that up. Fighting with a double bladed lightsaber is pretty similar to fighting with a staff, which has a pretty defensive feel if you've ever tried it.

[Hyfy]

Actually it was a weapon created by the sith. It is referred to as the "Sith Lightaber". Exar Kun got the design for his from Sith holocrons I believe. It is a weapon of death that requires and aggressive battle style which the jedi frowned upon because it could lead to the dark side.

 

Just because they designed or at least we're the first to use it does not make it a Sith specific weapon. Seems obvious that the Jedi saw it and it's strengths and decided to incorporate it in to their own training. You can argue the validity of why they would incorporate it's use but not the fact that they did incorporate its use.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Hyfy

[Hyfy]

Look at what I quoted and how it applies.

 

In WoW a two handed weapon deals greater damage than a single handed weapon. However you don't get to equip anything in your offhand slot, meaning its possible to customize the stats of your 1h+offhand character more than your 2H wielding character.

 

In SWTOR you can equip a MH+offhand combo period, no stat discrepancies exist and weapon damage is the same across the board.

 

Which seems to be a fair trade off. If you aren't getting bonus damage from using the 2 hander then getting the ability to pad your stats with something is a good balance. For the record I'm not arguing your point but rather reinforcing the validity of your argument.

[AgentNoun]

Actually it was a weapon created by the sith. It is referred to as the "Sith Lightaber". Exar Kun got the design for his from Sith holocrons I believe. It is a weapon of death that requires and aggressive battle style which the jedi frowned upon because it could lead to the dark side.

 

To be fair, one of the dialogue choices when you're picking your advanced class does reference how the Shadow walks a potentially dangerous path. In addition, pre-existing lore on the concept of the "Jedi Shadow" says that Shadows often end up seeing things even more starkly in black and white than other Jedi, because of their constant temptation and because they tend to be involved in internal investigations.

 

So... yeah. It can lead to the dark side, and the lore freely admits that. But the Shadows do it anyway, because it's the best tool for their job.

 

I was iffy about the double-bladed lightsaber at first, but I warmed up to it when I started to think of it more like a quarterstaff.

[GFreeGamer]

I think it would be nice to have the option to use a single lightsaber without being absolutely terribad. The damage is already gimped enough with single-saber stats alone; a tradeoff for the lack of 'class identification'.

 

I'm just glad Techniques can remain active after switching weapons. Otherwise single-saber would be even less useful than it already isn't.

 

Ummm techniques don't really remain active. You'll notice they grey out, meaning they're not applied, just that they know you'll switch back to the DBLS so they'll save you that little bit of effort. The technique's effects don't apply though.

[Inarai]

I'm not sure who made that up. Fighting with a double bladed lightsaber is pretty similar to fighting with a staff, which has a pretty defensive feel if you've ever tried it.

 

They get a number of things pretty stupidly wrong about the dual-bladed sabers in the EU - like that BS in the Bane series about them being more predictable because they know where the other end is and thus where the next attack has to come from (here's a tip: the next attack never, EVER has to come from either end specifically; in writing that someone failed critically at doing their research into staves and so forth).

[Kajuana]

Because double-bladed lightsaber always gets chopped into two lightsabers or gets disarmed in every single star wars movie/CG that features them?

 

That is the definition of the shadow class!

[Kemmer]

The double bladed lightsaber looks cool, but the vast majority of our animations look like utter crap. Our Companions get better animations than we do. I would kill for some of the sweet moves that Kira or Nadia have. I prefer watching them fight, to watching my own character fight.

 

^THIS^. I hate the fact that Kira and Nadia both look so much cooler than player shadows with their moves. Why can't they import some of those animations to our moves as alternate graphics procs. Double Strike is sooooo boring. Giving it a second animation that shows up sometimes would be nice.

[Murasakikitsune]

Ummm techniques don't really remain active. You'll notice they grey out, meaning they're not applied, just that they know you'll switch back to the DBLS so they'll save you that little bit of effort. The technique's effects don't apply though.

 

I haven't done any hard measurement yet, but in Combat Technique, my damage reduction and shielding and stuff stays buffed, and I remember I still got healed while doing damage. Was using a normal lightsaber for that.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I too would much prefer giving us the option to at least use single sabers without penalty. I can understand restricting duel sabers to Jedi Knight advanced class and double blade sabers to Shadows but I don't see a reason to restrict ability use to only 1 weapon choice (especially since it eliminates using vibroswords or staff weapons).

 

Hopefully future updates will change this to give players greater flexibility so they can customize characters more using the weapon skills already available to their advanced class.

[Murasakikitsune]

Actually, I'm personally opposed to such strict class systems in the first place. I'm very fond of SWG's progression system; you become better at the aspects you choose, whether it be stealth, force, single sabers, dual sabers, double sabers, blasters, whatever. I did think the rest of the game kinda sucked, but that aspect of it was very progressive in my eyes.

 

But in such class-based games, I think at least some such flexibility in personalization is necessary.

Edited January 25, 2012 by ZoeTuah

[Kemmer]

It really seems silly for certain abilities, like Shadow Strike. You're only hitting someone with one blade. It's not like a single blade can't do the same thing...

[Hydurz]

Satele Shan in the Opening Cinematics of this game USES A DOUBLE BLADED LIGHTSABER

 

 

Only After fighting malgus does the blade get severed in half and she must dualwield..

 

 

 

There have been only a couple light side jedis (canon lore) that used the double bladed lightsaber. Most noteable during the battle of ossus.

 

 

Cortosis blades please kthx...

[Inarai]

I too would much prefer giving us the option to at least use single sabers without penalty. I can understand restricting duel sabers to Jedi Knight advanced class and double blade sabers to Shadows but I don't see a reason to restrict ability use to only 1 weapon choice (especially since it eliminates using vibroswords or staff weapons).

 

Hopefully future updates will change this to give players greater flexibility so they can customize characters more using the weapon skills already available to their advanced class.

 

Do keep in mind that they cannot simply turn it on - they'd need to get all the animation stuff and likely weapon differentiation in before they did.

 

Odd exclusions like vibroswords and electrostaves really just seem like bugs, however.

[Murasakikitsune]

Do keep in mind that they cannot simply turn it on - they'd need to get all the animation stuff and likely weapon differentiation in before they did.

 

Odd exclusions like vibroswords and electrostaves really just seem like bugs, however.

 

I think this is an inherent flaw in their design, and judging by that other cause of Ability Delay, it seems to me that they're using some sort of "animation trigger" to cause abilities to function. (At a certain point in the animation, the ability is triggered automatically.)

 

While this is great for timing the damage to match up precisely with the animation, it is a big flaw.

Major problems with this method is that on occasion the trigger might not work properly, and it means animations aren't interchangeable.

 

(Of course, I could be wrong. But this is the only thing I can think of that would make it limited due to lack of animations.)

[Inarai]

I think this is an inherent flaw in their design, and judging by that other cause of Ability Delay, it seems to me that they're using some sort of "animation trigger" to cause abilities to function. (At a certain point in the animation, the ability is triggered automatically.)

 

While this is great for timing the damage to match up precisely with the animation, it is a big flaw.

Major problems with this method is that on occasion the trigger might not work properly, and it means animations aren't interchangeable.

 

(Of course, I could be wrong. But this is the only thing I can think of that would make it limited due to lack of animations.)

 

... Don't understand design well, do you? The fact that they didn't animate for all weapon options for all classes is about allocation of resources, which is a big part of it.

 

And animations being unique is one of the ADVANTAGES. That is a mark of quality.

 

But, no, animations don't work like that - the closest possible thing would involve collision detection, which isn't going on, so that doesn't remotely become a factor. What they can do is set the ability to do X at a certain point through it's cast/channel/GCD/whatever, which set up to line up with the animation (and the reverse). The animation wouldn't have that effect, however.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Inarai

[Murasakikitsune]

... Don't understand design well, do you? The fact that they didn't animate for all weapon options for all classes is about allocation of resources, which is a big part of it.

 

And animations being unique is one of the ADVANTAGES. That is a mark of quality.

 

But, no, animations don't work like that - the closest possible thing would involve collision detection, which isn't going on, so that doesn't remotely become a factor. What they can do is set the ability to do X at a certain point through it's cast/channel/GCD/whatever, which set up to line up with the animation (and the reverse). The animation wouldn't have that effect, however.

 

Quite the contrary, I design these sorts of systems myself. What I'm talking about is not that they should have animated every attack to work with every possible weapon, but that the inability to simply "turn it on" is a flaw in the design itself. At least, in the sense that a good system should be flexible.

 

Looking at WoW for example, I've looked at the various races and their animations, and each race has a few different "one-hand weapon swing" animations, a "one-hand special attack", and the like. However, there are certain ability-specific animations such as "Mutilate". Whereas most special attacks would use that "one-hand special attack" one, Mutilate uses a unique animation.

 

 

And while you're right-on with the idea of doing-X-at-this-point-in-time, I don't think they're necessarily doing it that way, despite how intuitive it might be.

Because animations have been suggested by many to be a factor in ability delay, because a lack of animations is a cause for not being able to simply "turn on" abilities for certain weapons, and because some abilities play their animations without triggering effects, I am led to think that they're using a flawed animation-trigger design instead of a more standard timer design.

 

 

I suppose it's not really all that relevant unless we were able to see the code for ourselves, but this is just a snack for thought.

[Inarai]

Quite the contrary, I design these sorts of systems myself. What I'm talking about is not that they should have animated every attack to work with every possible weapon, but that the inability to simply "turn it on" is a flaw in the design itself. At least, in the sense that a good system should be flexible.

 

It's not so much that the code isn't there, more that the animations aren't.

 

I'm aware WoW doesn't use unique animations. They're not at the same quality standard in this area as this game is. The game should not reduce its quality standard just to get this option out sooner. It makes perfect sense to delay it out to the post-launch calendar, and I can't honestly imagine the priority is that high compared to some of the other stuff going on.

 

Unique animations make it easier by far to identify abilities in usage, keep combat more varied, helps keep the player in the game more, along with a host of other benefits. It's by far a better design choice than slacking off on animations to make more weapons available (presuming resource availability, of course).

Edited January 25, 2012 by Inarai