Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) That is a bad analogy. The better analogy would be me asking for proof that there are feral cats in the USA and you point to the USA on a map. Only if the map had litterally thousands of years worth of inforamtaion about that subject. Also red sabers were very common during the GHW and JCW. You cannot claim red sabers are not common during this time period when you cannot prove red sabers "aren't" common during this time period.. GHW? JCW? I don't have time to guess what you're abbreviating. You have no proof to your claim. Seriously? I have no proof that red is an uncommon color for Jedi throughout StarWars history? Seriously? Do you guys even believe what you're writing? READ. A. BOOK. Edited January 25, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokai Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Or maybe they're dark characters and have fewer options? this if bioware didnt limit crystals we'd use what we wanted...i end up with orange usually since only real variation i can find while leveling my sith but really prefer blue or purple but i tend to be slightly dark so thats not an option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaddaq Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 None of that means red is the most common. In fact, if people could just go beyond that one Wookiepedia page and actually read up on the time periods in question, you would know that there were lots of colors, but red was still very rare. Hello, Again, I believe you are mistaken. The rarity of red crystals only surfaced in a war that is still thousands of years away. Color is only a factor in your own mind. Not only were lightsaber crystals of any color available in the time period of the game, but there is nothing to suggest red crystals are somehow rare in the time period of the game. This is about your preference, not lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Seriously? I have no proof that red is an uncommon color for Jedi throughout StarWars history? Seriously? Do you guys even believe what you're writing? READ. A. BOOK. ^^See, Clova? Posts like this is exactly why I was inclined to become somewhat sarcastic towards Spymaster and his "overzealousness" at expressing his views. I wasn't really making fun of him, per se, as much as I was making light of his quickness to assume he's right about everything and proper research proves him right (although it frequently proved just the exact opposite). True, maybe it doesn't make things better. But in light of things, it's definately deserved sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 but really prefer blue or purple but i tend to be slightly dark so thats not an option... You can use purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hello, Again, I believe you are mistaken. The rarity of red crystals only surfaced in a war that is still thousands of years away. But that's not true. There are lots of sources to look at of times before this game takes place, and while there are lots of gold and orange, there are really very few red saber using Jedi, before or after this game. It's about lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clova Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ^^See, Clova? Posts like this is exactly why I was inclined to become somewhat sarcastic towards Spymaster and his "overzealousness" at expressing his views. I wasn't really making fun of him, per se, as much as I was making light of his quickness to assume he's right about everything and proper research proves him right (although it frequently proved just the exact opposite). True, maybe it doesn't make things better. But in light of things, it's definately deserved sometimes. Understood, but i also cant fully fault anyone with getting angry when they feel ganged up upon. Except for trolls. Trolls can DIAF. I once had 3 Europeans gang up on me when i was trying to understand their grievances over mait just because Im a "Yank" Although I have to be honest. A thread discussing / fighting over lore is a brath of fresh air over "nerf this class / this game is dying / I'm quitting" threads lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) his "overzealousness" at expressing his views. My "overzealousness" is in your head. You're projecting. Besides the guy I was talking to (wasn't even you) was giving me the same silly line I've answered too many times already. Asking for proof of something that is spread out over throusands of years, when all you have to do is read up on the subject is not an argument at all. It's just ear plugging. I provided the proof. If you guys aren't willing to read up on the subject, you shouldn't argue it. (although it frequently proved just the exact opposite).. No one proved me wrong by the way. One guy posted a long list of supposed "Dark Jedi" in a attempt to "prove" the majority of Dark Jedi aren't sith... and a big chunk of them were actually Sith. His list proved me right if anything. Edited January 25, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Understood, but i also cant fully fault anyone with getting angry when they feel ganged up upon. Except for trolls. Trolls can DIAF. I once had 3 Europeans gang up on me when i was trying to understand their grievances over mait just because Im a "Yank" Although I have to be honest. A thread discussing / fighting over lore is a brath of fresh air over "nerf this class / this game is dying / I'm quitting" threads lol. Now that I can agree with. I may see things differently than the OP, but I have to be grateful that this isn't yet another thread talking about all the reasons why someone is quitting the game and why it sucks. Finally, something else to read about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) My "overzealousness" is in your head. You're projecting. Besides the guy I was talking to (wasn't even you) was giving me the same silly line I've answered too many times already. Asking for proof of something that is spread out over throusands of years, when all you have to do is read up on the subject is not an argument at all. It's just ear plugging. I provided the proof. If you guys aren't willing to read up on the subject, you shouldn't argue it. You're provided proof of nothing, spymaster, except that your delusions are a lot worse than I thought. You have no proof that jedi didn't use red lightsabers as frequently as they did any other color in the days of TOR. None whatsoever. And you're not going to, because such proof doesn't exist. This is a thread based solely off your opinion of jedi having red lightsabers. That's it. Your views, your thoughts, the way you see it. Unfortunately, the way you see it =/= the way it is. I don't understand why you can't grasp this. As I said before, I don't htink you're stupid. You can communicate coherently enough. So... I don't know. *shrug*... Edited January 25, 2012 by Pythoris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaeAichi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Might I comment that synthetic lightsaber crystals are red in color. wookiepedia on synthetic crystals so red isn't necessarily evil, but becomes associated with evil. ((If vader's had been blue, blue would be evil)). Frankly...the whole red=bad comes down to whoever decided to make Vader's saber red. Of course we are getting into archetypes with that one.... Archetypal Colors Color = positive (negative) Black = power (death, mourning) Blue = nobility, tranquility (depression) Brown = Earth, nature (confusion) Gray = neutral (passionless) Green = fertility, renewal, wealth (greed, envy) Orange = adventure, change (forced change, disruptiveness) Purple = royalty, positive personal growth (injury) Red = sex, love (sacrifice, taboo, humiliation, danger) White = purity, wholesomeness, rebirth (emptiness) Yellow = enlightenment (cowardice, illness) ((edited to include link)) Edited January 25, 2012 by TaeAichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 You have no proof that jedi didn't use red lightsabers as frequently as they did any other color in the days of TOR.. THAT is not the CLAIM I made!! LOL!!! OMG. Why should I prove something that I didn't claim? Please... read carfully..... In every OTHER, KNOWN time period, Red is rare. Why would I have to prove that red is rare in THIS time period to make a statement about the other time periods? I don't. This twisting of my point in EVERY post is getting really old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You know, I talked to Spy. He isnt nearly as stupid as you're paraphrasing him as. Just has a different viewpoint is all that i finally understood. It's possible he's not as stupid as he's acting, but he is trolling. He continues saying that the majority of Jedi on his server use red lightsabers. For that to be true, at least 51 out of every 100 Jedi would have to use red. That just isn't the case on any server. Now, if he would like anyone to take him seriously (which isn't the case since he's trolling, but I'm giving the benefit), then he would have to prove that a majority of Jedi on his server use red. But he both can't and wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaddaq Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 But that's not true. There are lots of sources to look at of times before this game takes place, and while there are lots of gold and orange, there are really very few red saber using Jedi, before or after this game. It's about lore. Hello, The availability of red crystals, and the ability of Jedi to use them, is true. I believe what you are trying to say is that a small collection of 'hero characters' from some books did not choose red crystals in their lightsabers. That's fine as far as it goes. But since red crystals are available, and since crystal color is a choice that the Jedi makes, then the heroes in our stories can choose to use them. Lore tells us that red was available. Lore tells us any color was acceptable. That's lore, Sir. This game is already more restrictive of color than Lore would suggest. Perhaps it upsets you that a large number of young Jedi recruits, coming of age in a time of war, are choosing colors that don't agree with your conservative sensibilities? Well, that may be good role playing, if you are playing a stiff codger who idealizes a few historical Jedi and strives to adhere to their practices exactly, right down to their fashion sense. But as far as the practical value of your complaint? I find none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 THAT is not the CLAIM I made!! LOL!!! OMG. Why should I prove something that I didn't claim? Please... read carfully..... In every OTHER, KNOWN time period, Red is rare. Why would I have to prove that red is rare in THIS time period to make a statement about the other time periods? I don't. This twisting of my point in EVERY post is getting really old. Well then, since you are arguing the point for ALL OTHER TIME PERIODS and not THIS TIME PERIOD, is there a point in continuing? What do other time periods have to do with this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) My "overzealousness" is in your head. You're projecting. Besides the guy I was talking to (wasn't even you) was giving me the same silly line I've answered too many times already. Asking for proof of something that is spread out over throusands of years, when all you have to do is read up on the subject is not an argument at all. It's just ear plugging. I provided the proof. If you guys aren't willing to read up on the subject, you shouldn't argue it. No one proved me wrong by the way. One guy posted a long list of supposed "Dark Jedi" in a attempt to "prove" the majority of Dark Jedi aren't sith... and a big chunk of them were actually Sith. His list proved me right if anything. You have not proven anything except engage in unintentional logical fallacy. To prove it would be to give us direct information, sources, and citations. You refuse this thus you have no proof. Also, claiming someone is projecting is the actual projection not someones observation of you being overzealous... which is a deduction I too agree with. If this proof is so obvious why are you unable to show it? Also if you aren't aware of those abbreviations you most likely aren't very understanding of Lore since those are two extremely important events barring movie events in the history of SW. If you intend on constantly dodging giving tangible proof and trying to bypass the fact you don't have any evidence by forcing people to go on a hunt through "thousands of years" of timeline that you are somehow so passionately in tune with yet are unable to actually recall anything factual then I will have to consider this argument as intentional trolling and will report it as such. Edited January 25, 2012 by Meiu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 It's possible he's not as stupid as he's acting, but he is trolling. No I'm not. And please, don't make me start flagging people again. He continues saying that the majority of Jedi on his server use red lightsabers. For that to be true, at least 51 out of every 100 Jedi would have to use red. That just isn't the case on any server. How do you know? You don't. ****, I don't even know. From what I've seen the majority have red. Maybe it's 49 out of 100..... wow, who cares? It's TOO MANY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythoris Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) THAT is not the CLAIM I made!! LOL!!! OMG. Why should I prove something that I didn't claim? Please... read carfully..... In every OTHER, KNOWN time period, Red is rare. Why would I have to prove that red is rare in THIS time period to make a statement about the other time periods? I don't. This twisting of my point in EVERY post is getting really old. *cough, cough* No. You're really not. I spent like the last 30 pages explaiing to you people the difference between argueing that they can't use red (which I never said) and that the majority don't use red in any other time period, which is the real point, and a fact.... and still most of you are trying to prove that they can use red if they want to. You're all so busy patting each other on the back you don't even have a rebuttal to my real issue, because the real issue is factual. Um, yeah. But, why get into that. My point, Spymaster, isyour original post, which is this... Why does every republic Jedi I see have a red lightsaber? I knew this would happen.... ugh so annoying. Is one born of personal opinion. Somewhere along the way, you (and a few others) tried to being lore into it to prove why your ideals are closer to SW canon than others who disagree with you. Which is stupid, because as of yet we don't know all that much about the lore of TOR, let alone the standard for LS colors in that period. Edited January 25, 2012 by Pythoris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hello, The availability of red crystals, and the ability of Jedi to use them, is true. I believe what you are trying to say is that a small collection of 'hero characters' from some books did not choose red crystals in their lightsabers. Hi. Yes, though I'm also saying that since the majority of known Jedi in those times didn't use red, that it is out of place for the majority to use red in the game. That's fine as far as it goes. But since red crystals are available, and since crystal color is a choice that the Jedi makes, then the heroes in our stories can choose to use them. Lore tells us that red was available. Lore tells us any color was acceptable. Agreed. But whether or not they CAN pick red has never been my problem. I really wish people would stop proving they CAN use red, and read the actual issue I'm posting on. They Can use red, but throughout known StarWars history.... they most often do not. That's lore too, is it not? Why can't people get this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 No I'm not. And please, don't make me start flagging people again. How do you know? You don't. ****, I don't even know. From what I've seen the majority have red. Maybe it's 49 out of 100..... wow, who cares? It's TOO MANY!!! It is now obvious you are trolling the good people of this forum. I am obligated to report you for rude, offensive, and uninviting comments. I am sorry it had to come to this but to better the community this choice was made with the well-being of the many over watching a single troll have fun at the expensive of others. Once again, I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi. Yes, though I'm also saying that since the majority of known Jedi in those times didn't use red, that it is out of place for the majority to use red in the game. Agreed. But whether or not they CAN pick red has never been my problem. I really wish people would stop proving they CAN use red, and read the actual issue I'm posting on. They Can use red, but throughout known StarWars history.... they most often do not. That's lore too, is it not? Why can't people get this? Using a few well known or prominent figures as a determination for the actions of the majority is a logical fallacy. You cannot use this as any sort of proof besides being anecdotal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 *cough, cough*. Ummm what was that supposed to show? That my argument is the same then and now? Which is stupid, because as of yet we don't know all that much about the lore of TOR, let alone the standard for LS colors in that period. It's not about the lore of TOR. It's about the lore of every other time period I've explained this..... why is this so hard for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HavenAE Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good questions... All I know is it's not cool or uniuqe to see a republic jedi with a red saber in this game... it's just common cliche', annoying and frankly a little too emo for my taste. Why does being darkside always equate to emo with you guys? Do you even know what emo actually is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) It is now obvious you are trolling the good people of this forum.. You know what hypocrite. I'm done talking to you. From now on people that start the post with "you're a troll" prove they're not here to discuss anything. Just call people names and then blame them for being rude. Yeah, I bet that works for you in real life..... Edited January 25, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meiu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ummm what was that supposed to show? That my argument is the same then and now? It's not about the lore of TOR. It's about the lore of every other time period I've explained this..... why is this so hard for you? The lore of every other time period has no bearing on this time period. I don't recall being held to standards developed in ancient Egypt or 2000 years in the future? You act as if a timeline is a completely linear evolution of society without deviation? This reminds me of arguments about probability where people believe probability compounds on itself. Example, 1 out of 10 times you will get 1. This is like thinking every time you do not get 1 your chances of getting 1 increases when in reality the chances of getting 1 are 1 out of 10... The moral is each time period can be drastically and completely different than anything before or after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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