ikinai Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If I were arguing that it's not possible that's all you'd need, but that's not my argument so you're proving something that means nothing. I'm explaiing to you that thousands of years of StarWars history doesn't match this game, becuase that's true. You can plug your ears and keep proving it's possible to go against the rest of the lore forver, but that doesn't effect the FACT that I'm right and that this game is out of place with all the other years of StarWars lore. No it isn't. You have shown no facts whatsoever. During this time period, there are more jedi, there are more jedi with red sabers. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxone Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You haven't shown tis to be true for all other times in starwars history. I invite you to try. FixedYes. Were you going to try a valid argument, or were you going to continue your fallacious logic? From what Bioware has actually created (you know the stuff that will be canon) I don't believe there is any significant amount of Jedi using red lightsabers, at least no more so than other time periods. Just because a bunch of players decide to equip them does not make it canon. Canon is what Bioware decides it is based on what THEY have created. See previous KOTOR games and how they decided on the canon of those as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrifKaylon Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) No I'm not. It's fine that the mechainc is in the game. The problem is people pretending that mechainc fits the lore when it does not. It it lorebreaking that my smuggler can't equip a lightsaber? Han Solo clearly could. I think you should read then re-read Clova's posts, because they are great. Edited January 24, 2012 by TrifKaylon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 You think if you asked George Lucas if every player's actions and decisions (like what item to use and who to save) was canon that he would agree? Or you think maybe GL agreed to let the storyline that Bioware set out in the game become canon. That's like saying the majority of the padawans were all special snowflakes and Master Orgus trained tens of thousands concurrently. You are just riding Biowares story. In previous KOTOR games not all player decisions became canon. Bioware chose a path and a storyline to come out of the games that became canon. If the majority of players decide to use red lightsabers the canon will not reflect that. The canon will reflect only what Bioware writes and chooses to become canon. If you really want to prove that a very significant amount of jedi used red lightsabers in this time period then you need to look at what Bioware has created, all those NPC's and then you will know what is actually canon. Nice try though. P.S. I don't give a care about lightsaber colors, but at least try to understand how the lore is going to work and what will be canon and what obviously won't. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clova Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The ONLY part of this game that should be considered when arguing canon and lore, is the story from the individual player's perspective. That way, you wont be arguing why 3612968 people have red light sabers when in reality, only one jedi does (not counting any NPC we may come accross in our story) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) If I were arguing that it's not possible that's all you'd need, but that's not my argument so you're proving something that means nothing. No, you're arguing that it doesn't fit the lore. Showing that it's possible without breaking any bit of the known lore is sufficient. you've conceded that we've done so, so you agree that having a multitude of jedi with red lightsabers in no way violates the known lore of the star wars universe. I'm explaiing to you that thousands of years of StarWars history doesn't match this game, becuase that's true. You've not shown anything about thousands of years. You're referencing a few decades. the OPINION that I'm right and that this game is out of place with all the other years of StarWars lore.fixed Edited January 24, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 It it lorebreaking that my smuggler can't equip a lightsaber? Han Solo clearly could. I think you should read then re-read Clova and Loxone's posts, because they are great. Yes. But it's a game mechainc. See, it's not that hard to just accept that some things in the game are not lore. You should try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Using the original films as a source, then there shouldn't be so many Jedi running around - nor Sith. In addition to that, let's look at it from a ratio standpoint. There are four lightsabers in the original trilogy. Two blues, a green, and a red. Therefore, one-quarter of the sabers in the Star Wars franchise are red, one-quarter are green, and one-half are blue. To take this further, let's look at this from a "style of lightsaber" standpoint. In the movies, there are four lightsaber styles - all single-bladed sabers, used alone. Therefore, in all of Star Wars, you can only use one single-bladed lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxone Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The ONLY part of this game that should be considered when arguing canon and lore, is the story from the individual player's perspective. That way, you wont be arguing why 3612968 people have red light sabers when in reality, only one jedi does (not counting any NPC we may come accross in our story) Exactly. Boy it sure got quiet in here all of a sudden lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_Dragoon Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 My Jedi uses a red saber because i do not believe in the Jedi Code, i think its full of crap and I sorta follow the Sith Code but not their orders. I live by my own rules and just chose to fight for the light side. I do respect the Jedi i just think their code is silly and doesn't make much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 No, you're arguing that it doesn't fit the lore. Because it doesn't. Thousands of years of Jedi not using red sabers contradicts your assertion that it would be common during this short time span. It could be common, but it doesn't fit to have it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Using the original films as a source, then there shouldn't be so many Jedi running around - nor Sith.Or female jedi at all. Or any jedi other than Humans and Yoda's species. Or any double bladed lightsabers Or any lighsaber users dual wielding. The selective observation fallacy is useful for "proving" all kinds of absurd situations, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Using the original films as a source. I'm using all of the other known StarWars time periods, not just the films. Edited January 24, 2012 by Spymaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only fact people are missing is that opinion is not fact no matter how much you believe it to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clova Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Exactly. Boy it sure got quiet in here all of a sudden lol. I find it much more bearable if you dont address the problem directly, and instead address the audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolGravion Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Or female jedi at all. Or any jedi other than Humans and Yoda's species. Or any double bladed lightsabers Or any lighsaber users dual wielding. The selective observation fallacy is useful for "proving" all kinds of absurd situations, isn't it? I think you are arguing way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Because it doesn't. Thousands of years of Jedi not using red sabers contradicts your assertion that it would be common during this short time span. It could be common, but it doesn't fit to have it happen. and you have this proof that they didn't use them, at all. Ever? during those thousands years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justahdude Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I really apologize for this, I really wanted to make my character kinda naughty and i kinda let it slip that many of the dark side choices seem more interesting, story wise... unfortunately most of the light side choices make you feel empty and dead inside like qui-gon jin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm using all of the other known StarWars time periods, not just the films. But the evidence you provided was the films. Therefore, I return to my original argument - lack of evidence is not evidence. There is a lot of years before the game happens, and a lot of years after the game happens, for Jedi to be running around using red sabers all willy-nilly. If you disagree, then post some evidence during this large section of time around the game that shows otherwise, and why it would not fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only fact people are missing is that opinion is not fact no matter how much you believe it to be It's NOT an opinion!!! There are thousands of known years in which this does not happen. To say it fits the rest of the lore for that to suddenly change is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolGravion Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Why is the internet full of wannabe lawyers. "Post some evidence that make believe dudes didnt do make believe things in fairy land!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsetes Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's NOT an opinion!!! There are thousands of known years in which this does not happen. To say it fits the rest of the lore for that to suddenly change is just wrong. Provide evidence of this, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 and you have this proof that they didn't use them, at all. Ever? during those thousands years? Do you understand the words "all known time periods"??? Yes I have the proof. In hundreds of books and movies. Go read something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Because it doesn't.No it fits just fine, as you've conceded. Thousands of years of Jedi not using red sabers contradicts your assertion that it would be common during this short time span.You've got at least 3 bits of fallacious logic going on here. 1. I'm not asserting that it would be common; noone is. We're stating that it could be common, and that it in no way contradicts the lore of the star wars universe. Above you conceded this point, so I don't understand why you're arguing. At best you're moving the goal posts. 2. Insisting that the "thousands of years" bit disproves what is happening in a specific time frame outside of those thousands of years is an Argument By Generalization fallacy 3. Beyond that, you're not actually demonstrating that your claim is true during a time period of "thousands of years" so you're making an argument based on a false premise. Please... at least TRY to come up with valid argument. It could be common, and it fits just fine to have it happen.fixed Edited January 24, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Provide evidence of this, then. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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