Red Sabers.....

[ferroz]

"Maybe" sure.... that doesn't mean it fits the rest of Star Wars histoy. Maybe they al used rainbow for all we know. That doens't make it lore fitting.

Nor does it mean that it doesn't fit the lore.

 

My issue isn't that it couldn't have happend.... It's that all these red sabers don't fith with what happens every other time.

So? Darth Vader isn't in the game. He's in all the movies in one for or another. Without him, the game doesn't fit with what happens every other time.

 

Try to be a little less absurd. You're trying to argue that it some how doesn't fit with the known, established lore, and that's simply not true. It fits just fine, it's just not how you want it to be.

[ferroz]

They may be artificial sometimes, but that doesn't stop there from a) being natural red crystals, and b) being made without fear and hate. Since Luke made Leia several lightsabers, all using red crystals, I'm guessing he wasn't going dark side just to craft faster.

the emperor destroyed much of the natural sources for lightsaber crystals, so pretty much all of the new jedi order sabers were made with synth crystals.

[Spymaster]

You just went an threw out your own argument. Stuff happens ALL THE TIME that changes how things are and what we perceive.

 

That's been my argument from the start!!! You people still continue to argue with stuff I didn't say and then when I explain to you why your arguing something that has no impact on my opinion... you get all mad like I changed something.

 

Not ONE TIME did I say it CAN'T happen. In fact I said MANY times that it can. However, the point is, just becuase something CAn happen doesn't make it fit with the rest of history if it doesn't fit.. It's still out of place.

 

It CAN happen, yeah I said that myself multiple times. It's out of place for it to do so though, that's the issue.

 

Stop proving it "CAN" happen and listen to the real argument.

[greycobalt]

They needed to use red. The Jedi order was gone and the crystal caves lost. Forced to use red is different than most Jedi picking red.

 

 

 

I've read a bunch of the comics and really havn't seen any red that I can remember but maybe I missed something. I really don't see one page of a comic as proof they were common, but it's better trhan anyone else has come up with.

 

They didn't need to use red at all. Jacen found his own green crystal, Jaina found her own blue one. Heck, Anakin (Solo) found his own purple one. There were several hundred Jedi at the point we're at in the books now, and none of them HAD to use any particular color. They chose their own. Several of them choosing red goes against what you're saying.

 

I can't right now, but later I'll try to scan the comic pages I'm talking about. It's very clear.

[ferroz]

They needed to use red. The Jedi order was gone and the crystal caves lost. Forced to use red is different than most Jedi picking red.

No, synth crystals can be any color... if they made them red, they chose to make them red.

 

Luke chose not red; the one he used in rotj was a synth crystal saber.

 

Leia chose red several times.

Edited January 24, 2012 by ferroz

[TrifKaylon]

the emperor destroyed much of the natural sources for lightsaber crystals, so pretty much all of the new jedi order sabers were made with synth crystals.

 

And again, synth crystals can be whatever color you want them to be. The saber that Luke built between Empire and RoTJ used a green synthetic crystal. The don't *have* to be red, just as they don't *have* to be infused with dark energy.

Edited January 24, 2012 by TrifKaylon

[greycobalt]

That's been my argument from the start!!! You people still continue to argue with stuff I didn't say and then when I explain to you why your arguing something that has no impact on my opinion... you get all mad like I changed something.

 

Not ONE TIME did I say it CAN'T happen. In fact I said MANY times that it can. However, the point is, just becuase something CAn happen doesn't make it fit with the rest of history if it doesn't fit.. It's still out of place.

 

It CAN happen, yeah I said that myself multiple times. It's out of place for it to do so though, that's the issue.

 

Stop proving it "CAN" happen and listen to the real argument.

 

I would do that if you're argument was actually...an argument. It's not. It's an opinion. You're saying the aesthetic of having Jedi walking around with red sabers is wrong. It's not. You may not like it, it may seem wrong to you, but proving it is wrong is impossible, since there is nothing saying it is, or even remotely hinting it is.

[Spymaster]

Well, I'd also like to point out that there's a precedent for this:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rainbow_gem

 

So that wouldn't be lore-breaking either.

 

If a lot of people had it, yes it would be.

 

I think if you're seriously concerned about this, then you're probably just gonna have to deal with it..

 

I "dealt with it" on post one. It's annoying and against the lore, and I expressed that.

 

Why can't people dael with that?

[ikinai]

Having read a bit of this I'll just sum it up this way:

 

Red crystals as not-lorebreakeing the score is 1,233,459,201

As lorebreaking 1

 

So with a score of 1,233,459,201 to 1, not lorebreaking wins!

[Pythoris]

I just think it would be extremely stupid to try to argue that jedi shouldn't be able to use red and sith shouldn't be able to use blue. Especially when the same canon lore allows for dark-sided jedi and light-sided sith. The world of Star Wars itself is rife with contradictions and possibilities. Besides, this era is only just now being presented to us via swtor. (Well, and kotor.) What we know about this era is what we're being told and shown about it through canon lore. Swtor is canon lore. So... how in the heck are you even going to argue with that?

 

That's like arguing that Alderaan still exists after the age of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

 

 

 

Also, who is really going to walk up to a big, scary powerful sith and tell them they have no right to carry the blue lightsaber they're wielding? Shyeah, okay. After you.

[Clova]

Isnt this really all based on perception? from a single player story point of view, our player is the only one with a red light saber, which fits into the "rarity".

 

However, because this isnt a single player game, you are going to see other players acting within their own story, so while within their own story its rare, outside in the "MMO" part of the game it will not. You have to seperate story and MMO here.

 

The alternative is to remove red crystals from republic, and green and blue from Empire period. Its an all or nothing deal because the game treats us as a single player game would, but with the benefits of an MMO world.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Clova

[ferroz]

That's been my argument from the start!!! You people still continue to argue with stuff I didn't say and then when I explain to you why your arguing something that has no impact on my opinion... you get all mad like I changed something.

Because you have... you've basically backed off your origonal point because you realize it's untenable.

 

Not ONE TIME did I say it CAN'T happen. In fact I said MANY times that it can. However, the point is, just becuase something CAn happen doesn't make it fit with the rest of history if it doesn't fit.. It's still out of place.

You're arguing that it doesn't fit and that it's out of place. These are false statements.

 

There is absolutely nothing about having a multiltude of jedi with red sabers that doesn't fit the lore. It fits just fine.

 

 

 

Stop proving it "CAN" happen and listen to the real argument.

Stop trying to weasel out of your untenable claims... Edited January 24, 2012 by ferroz

[Sernon]

Shared cross faction symbolism was never a good thing in any game OP. You're right in every sense of the word, apart from stepping on the individual right to make everything as generic as possible within the constraints of asset distribution.

 

---

[Spymaster]

I would do that if you're argument was actually...an argument. It's not. It's an opinion.

 

So... you're arguing that my opinion is wrong then? Ummm...ok??

 

You're saying the aesthetic of having Jedi walking around with red sabers is wrong. It's not.

 

Nope. Stop trying to tell me what I'm saying and getting it wrong. LoL.

 

There's nothing "wrong" about it... it just doesn't fit the setting. It's out of place and annoying. I COULD happen, but it's still out of place. Not wrong, just annoying.

 

since there is nothing saying it is, or even remotely hinting it is.

 

Thousands of known history hints at it

[Spymaster]

Because you have... you've basically backed off your origonal point because you realize it's untenable.

 

Completely fabricated.

[Calsetes]

If a lot of people had it, yes it would be.

 

 

 

I "dealt with it" on post one. It's annoying and against the lore, and I expressed that.

 

Why can't people dael with that?

 

Let's go back to the root of the problem and reboot the thread:

 

How is it against the lore? Where, in the lore during this time period, does it say "massive numbers of Jedi do not use red sabers, and massive numbers of Sith use only red sabers?" What is your evidence of this being the case, and where is the evidence proving the opposite?

 

Provide specific examples, and not "there were a lot of people in other time periods using this." Fair enough? If you already posted it, or other people did, then just throw that there. This way, everyone's on the same page.

[Spymaster]

Having read a bit of this I'll just sum it up this way:

 

Red crystals as not-lorebreakeing the score is 1,233,459,201

As lorebreaking 1

 

So with a score of 1,233,459,201 to 1, not lorebreaking wins!

 

Having more bad arguments doesn't make then the winner.

[ferroz]

If a lot of people had it, yes it would be.

[citation needed]

 

You're just asserting this with no backup.

 

 

I "dealt with it" on post one. It's annoying and against the lore, and I expressed that.

Oh if you argued that you were just stating an opinion and wrong, respectively.

 

You find it annoying. That does not "deal with it" at all. It's just your opinion.

 

You think it's against the lore; you're simply mistaken, since it does not go against the lore in any way. It goes against what you want, but that's just going back to your opinion.

 

It looks like you might as well leave it as "I don't like it because I don't like it" .... because you're not defending your point with anything but opinions...

 

Why can't people dael with that?

because you're wrong and/or passing off your opinion as if it were somehow factual? Edited January 24, 2012 by ferroz

[Pythoris]

Having more bad arguments doesn't make then the winner.

 

But having one bad argument definately makes one the loser.

[Spymaster]

Where, in the lore during this time period, does it say "massive numbers of Jedi do not use red sabers.

 

In pretty much every other time period in Star Wars history.

[Kahldor]

Good questions... All I know is it's not cool or uniuqe to see a republic jedi with a red saber in this game... it's just common cliche', annoying and frankly a little too emo for my taste.

 

Even though I play Empire I like it, because it angers the Lore-centric Republic diehards. I tried playing Republic to avoid the Empire chat trolls, but the Republic Lore Police are sooooo annoying that I had to make a light side Sith Warrior. Let people play/dress however they want. As long as they aren't griefing you, it shouldn't be an issue.

[Loxone]

Isnt this really all based on perception? from a single player story point of view, our player is the only one with a red light saber, which fits into the "rarity".

 

However, because this isnt a single player game, you are going to see other players acting within their own story, so while within their own story its rare, outside in the "MMO" part of the game it will not. You have to seperate story and MMO here.

 

The alternative is to remove red crystals from republic, and green and blue from Empire period. Its an all or nothing deal because the game treats us as a single player game would, but with the benefits of an MMO world.

 

This is probably the most reasonable post in this whole thread. I'm sure it will go ignored.

[ferroz]

In pretty much every other time period in Star Wars history.

[citation needed]

 

I welcome your attempt to prove this claim.

[greycobalt]

So... you're arguing that my opinion is wrong then? Ummm...ok??

 

 

 

Nope. Stop trying to tell me what I'm saying and getting it wrong. LoL.

 

There's nothing "wrong" about it... it just doesn't fit the setting. It's out of place and annoying. I COULD happen, but it's still out of place. Not wrong, just annoying.

 

 

 

Thousands of known history hints at it

 

No, I am arguing that your claim that it ISN'T an opinion is wrong. You are not arguing a point. You are arguing an opinion. A feeling even.

 

It doesn't fit the setting FOR YOU. It's out of place and annoying FOR YOU. It COULD HAPPEN, and apparently it DID HAPPEN, because IT'S HAPPENING. It's still out of place FOR YOU. Not wrong, just annoying, FOR YOU. See?

 

Known history can hint at anything, as I previously said. Being in unknown history lets us hint at new things! Yay!

[Spymaster]

Let people play/dress however they want. As long as they aren't griefing you, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

It's only an issue in thie thread, where people pretend they're following the lore when they're not and call me names because I don't agree with their warped lore excuses.

 

People like you, who don't care about the lore, at least you're honest....