Don't Nerf Tracer Missle/Grav rounds.....Nerf

[Malice_Nihilim]

Armor Piercing Cell and High Velocity Gas Cylinder!

 

Why do you ask?

 

35% consistent armor pen which when stacked with Tracer missle and Grav rounds secondary effect builds up to 60% armor penetration!

 

Far and away the highest consistent figure of armor pen in the entire game.

 

And lest we forget, Bioware are nerfing Flechette Round and Acid Blade, both 31 point talents that grant 50% armor pen (and the only armor pen that a Scoundrel/Ops gets) for 6 seconds down to 30% for 6 seconds because they think 50% armor pen for 6 seconds is too much.....

 

So again, I ask how is 35% consistent armor pen on a heavy armor wearing class that can consistently stack to 60% armor pen fair? (not forgetting here, you have to invest absolutely nothing for that armor pen vs a 31 talent point)

 

Now you have your answer and the true problem behind Grav/Tracer spam.

 

eh, one the lowest 'ignore armors' in the game....my railshots ignore 90% armor passively.

[Spyde]

Tracer missle now has more burst then ops can ever dream of...

 

3k dmg over and over ftw from 30m away and only a 1.5 sec cast time.

[TheRealBoz]

Tracer missle now has more burst then ops can ever dream of...

 

3k dmg over and over ftw from 30m away and only a 1.5 sec cast time.

 

3k happens only on a crit.

[Crompton]

Armor Piercing Cell and High Velocity Gas Cylinder!

 

Why do you ask?

 

35% consistent armor pen which when stacked with Tracer missle and Grav rounds secondary effect builds up to 60% armor penetration!

 

Far and away the highest consistent figure of armor pen in the entire game.

 

And lest we forget, Bioware are nerfing Flechette Round and Acid Blade, both 31 point talents that grant 50% armor pen (and the only armor pen that a Scoundrel/Ops gets) for 6 seconds down to 30% for 6 seconds because they think 50% armor pen for 6 seconds is too much.....

 

So again, I ask how is 35% consistent armor pen on a heavy armor wearing class that can consistently stack to 60% armor pen fair? (not forgetting here, you have to invest absolutely nothing for that armor pen vs a 31 talent point)

 

Now you have your answer and the true problem behind Grav/Tracer spam.

 

So with this pathetic attempt from a Imp sorc your asking for a nerf in your own deluded mind?

[MegaBubble]

Let me try to explain why I think your complaint is flawed at its core with an illustration.

 

My daughter complained to me the other day because I only let her have 1 cookie, even though I let her cousin have 3. She didn't think it was fair. I explained to her that the reason she couldn't have 3 cookies was that she had just had ice cream an hour before - her cousin had not. Her cousin is also older than she is. It isn't that 3 cookies are bad as a general rule - but combined with her age, the other sweets she had already eaten, and other factors this particular child did not need 3 cookies.

 

Get it?

 

You can't just make a blanket statement that "if Smugglers can't have it then Troopers shouldn't be able to have it either!" because that decision was balanced with the rest of the Smugglers feature set in mind. BW didn't just go in and solely look at armor penetration and go, "Oh no, that's way too much for any one class to have".

 

That's why your argument is flawed from the very start. What you're doing is having a knee-jerk reaction to your class getting nerfed. Your class hasn't been rendered "useless" now, its just a nerf. Again, stop complaining, adapt, and overcome.

Edited January 23, 2012 by MegaBubble

[Zarthorn]

So with this pathetic attempt from a Imp sorc your asking for a nerf in your own deluded mind?

 

How is it delusional when something is clearly wrong with your class and everyone can see it but merc/commando players?

 

Do yourself a favor, play another class for a while get yourself on the recieving end of a merc/commando then tell me how we are all wrong and that you guys are actually balanced, because I can bet you now you would be actually thinking to yourself "yea...this is bs"

[Brad-]

Hopefully, BW will be too smart to nerf classes based on PvP whines.

 

 

 

 

I love people who say "his A is stronger than my B, and should be nerfed ... please ignore the fact that my C is stronger than his D". All they care about is winning through nerfs, not through skill.

 

 

Anyone who thinks Commandos are OP, hasn't learned to LoS... hasn't learned to move while playing ... etc.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Brad-

[Duymon]

Tracer Missile spam is not hard to avoid. Just look for the mercs that are leaning down like they're about to poop and either LOS them, use a close-in technique like Force speed / Force Leap / Storm or Rocket boost and melt their faces in close combat.

 

The only reason most Commandos / Mercs seem to be melting face is because the smart ones DPS down people at range who are already engaged with another player like they're supposed to IN A TEAM GAME.

[Brad-]

Tracer Missile spam is not hard to avoid. Just look for the mercs that are leaning down like they're about to poop and either LOS them, use a close-in technique like Force speed / Force Leap / Storm or Rocket boost and melt their faces in close combat.

 

The only reason most Commandos / Mercs seem to be melting face is because the smart ones DPS down people at range who are already engaged with another player like they're supposed to IN A TEAM GAME.

 

 

 

You are asking people to think and play smart? Why should they have to do that, when it is so much easier to cry on the forms?

Edited January 23, 2012 by Brad-

[Zarthorn]

Hopefully, BW will be too smart to nerf classes based on PvP whines.

 

 

 

 

I love people who say "his A is stronger than my B, and should be nerfed ... please ignore the fact that my C is stronger than his D". All they care about is winning through nerfs, not through skill.

 

 

Anyone who thinks Commandos are OP, hasn't learned to LoS... hasn't learned to move while playing ... etc.

 

Scoundrel/Ops nerf, based on whines to the most, that ship sailed.

 

LoS only works if you are on a map that allows for it like Alderaan, try LoS'ing consistently on Voidstar, Huttball and Ilum, this is a falsity created to bring about an illusion that Tracer/Grav is balanced.

 

1.5 sec induction time, takes much longer than that to duck for cover im afraid.

[Barakus]

Armor Piercing Cell and High Velocity Gas Cylinder!

 

So again, I ask how is 35% consistent armor pen on a heavy armor wearing class that can consistently stack to 60% armor pen fair? (not forgetting here, you have to invest absolutely nothing for that armor pen vs a 31 talent point)

 

Now you have your answer and the true problem behind Grav/Tracer spam.

 

Yet Commando/Mercenary damage still wasn't even coming close to Operative/Scoundrel.

[TheRealBoz]

Scoundrel/Ops nerf, based on whines to the most, that ship sailed.

 

LoS only works if you are on a map that allows for it like Alderaan, try LoS'ing consistently on Voidstar, Huttball and Ilum, this is a falsity created to bring about an illusion that Tracer/Grav is balanced.

 

1.5 sec induction time, takes much longer than that to duck for cover im afraid.

 

Hahaha, it's by far the easiest to LoS in Huttball. After that, it's Voidstar because there are multiple pillars, platforms, random poles and crates. It's much trickier to LoS on Alderaan.

Conclusion: You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Proto]

So lets hear it, Commandos and Mercs, I want to know how you can defend this atrocity...how can you, a class with heavy armor be allowed over every other class....the highest armor pen and not even have to spend a single point in any mastery tree for it?

 

I could add the Vanguard/Powertech to the list of classes you have more armor pen than, but I think pointing out that you already have more armor pen than every other mirror pushes the point home stronger.

 

I don't think they need to defend it considering Bioware openly supports it considering their next update is going to give Operatives a 30% passive Armor Pen in place of some of the nerfs. They CLEARLY think its A-OK so don't think for a moment they're going to change Tracer or High Velocity rounds. They won't.

[Zarthorn]

Hahaha, it's by far the easiest to LoS in Huttball. After that, it's Voidstar because there are multiple pillars, platforms, random poles and crates. It's much trickier to LoS on Alderaan.

Conclusion: You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Merc sidesteps, LoS cleared.

 

note how you dodged the whole point of Ilum lacking LoS spots.

[Malice_Nihilim]

Tracer missle now has more burst then ops can ever dream of...

 

3k dmg over and over ftw from 30m away and only a 1.5 sec cast time.

 

yeah, how dare they! (while I try to run away from a sorc hitting me with endless chain lightening snare ticking for 3500) yeah...rough....

[TheRealBoz]

Merc sidesteps, LoS cleared.

 

note how you dodged the whole point of Ilum lacking LoS spots.

 

I love how you dodged entire posts before, yet now you call people out...

I dodged the Ilum point because Ilum is trash, sucks, and inability to LoS is the least of its problems.

[Chiricahua]

Nerf callers please go away. You are ruining this game.

[Malice_Nihilim]

Merc sidesteps, LoS cleared.

 

note how you dodged the whole point of Ilum lacking LoS spots.

 

Ald and Ilum allow you to simply move out of range of them easily.

[Zarthorn]

I love how you dodged entire posts before, yet now you call people out...

I dodged the Ilum point because Ilum is trash, sucks, and inability to LoS is the least of its problems.

 

Dodged? I haven't dodged anything because every response on the "defence" is rehashed same old stuff I have seen in more games than you care to count, so should I sit and try to respond to every person that chooses to defend by rehashing the same defence they have used against countless agitated players at how they are right and we are wrong?

 

I could delve even deeper, hitboxes, latency, ability delay, etc but what will it achieve?

 

More of the same handful of people that likely discovered how abusable tracer/grav was in beta but kept it quiet so they could abuse it live responding with the same old "oh you just bad, just los, just interupt, you don't know the class"

 

yes I know the class, one of my alts is a gunnery commando and I know how stupidly easy it is to beat people by spamming grav round when they have to put in 20x the effort I do to kill me.

 

Honestly when you can come out with some figures and proper facts how the commando/merc needs to have such an abuseable skillset you get back to me....

 

Until that time, just another kiddy that wants to keep his bottle.

[TheRealBoz]

Dodged? I haven't dodged anything because every response on the "defence" is rehashed same old stuff I have seen in more games than you care to count, so should I sit and try to respond to every person that chooses to defend by rehashing the same defence they have used against countless agitated players at how they are right and we are wrong?

 

I could delve even deeper, hitboxes, latency, ability delay, etc but what will it achieve?

 

More of the same handful of people that likely discovered how abusable tracer/grav was in beta but kept it quiet so they could abuse it live responding with the same old "oh you just bad, just los, just interupt, you don't know the class"

 

yes I know the class, one of my alts is a gunnery commando and I know how stupidly easy it is to beat people by spamming grav round when they have to put in 20x the effort I do to kill me.

 

Honestly when you can come out with some figures and proper facts how the commando/merc needs to have such an abuseable skillset you get back to me....

 

Until that time, just another kiddy that wants to keep his bottle.

 

So, YOU don't have to respond to every point, but when anyone else fails to respond, they're OMG DODGING THE ISSUE?

Stay classy.

 

Also, since YOU are the one claiming the class is OP, burden of proof is on you. Noone has to prove they aren't OP.

[HomelessJ]

yeah, how dare they! (while I try to run away from a sorc hitting me with endless chain lightening snare ticking for 3500) yeah...rough....

 

Because sorcerers hit 3.5k per tick of lightning...Its a shame you have to bring sorcerers into this, when just because were the only class with a noticeable animation, people blame us for every bit of damage that comes there way, because they can see lightning in there face...L2P thanks...

[Zarthorn]

So, YOU don't have to respond to every point, but when anyone else fails to respond, they're OMG DODGING THE ISSUE?

Stay classy.

 

Also, since YOU are the one claiming the class is OP, burden of proof is on you. Noone has to prove they aren't OP.

 

First page, third post, it's been posted in every single tracer/grav thread.

 

There is no stronger evidence than video evidence, yet none of you seem really capable of posting a video back that counters the argument.

 

So it's all well and good telling us to go and post evidence when it's there clear as daylight for the forumites to see, yet all you folks do is make more excuses and don't back your claim with evidence as to why you are not "OP".

 

Edit: Note how you guys are now deflecting the issue onto Sorcs, this thread has nothing to do with them.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Zarthorn

[zeroburrito]

nerf sorcs. 100% armor pen on all attacks with no investment. Edited January 23, 2012 by zeroburrito

[Darth-Reaver]

Interrupt anyone ??

 

Merc's can easliy be dealt with, use interrupt and the majority of them will stand and stare at you while they spam the Tracer missile keybind for four seconds.

 

However if you allow them to turret then what do you execpt?

[TheRealBoz]

Watched the video multiple times, and I HAVE mentioned several mistakes.

1. In that entire video, the BH was left to freecast from 20+ meters in almost every instance. Noone even tried to counter him.

2. ALL of his kills, EVERY SINGLE ONE, were a 3v1 situation, minimum. Not a single 1v1 engagement at all.

3. He uses more than Tracer Missile, but most people don't realize that because they don't play Trooper/Bounty Hunter. Instant activation skills, you can plainly see him use rail shot and heat seeker several times. Pay attention to sudden global cooldowns from nowhere.

4. He was in a premade. Evidenced by the number of players that stuck around for the entirety of the warzone in his proximity, feeding him kills via stuns, slows, heals and other CC.

5. He is in full PvP gear, stimmed up, and most of his enemies are lowbies. No doubt that was one of ~50 videos the guy made, but you only get to see the one.