miliways Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I call shenanigans. I'm calling you out OP. You are not an indie game developer. If you were, if you knew the first thing about video game development, you would never suggest something as asinine as moving from the hero engine to the unreal engine. Do you have any concept whatsoever of how much work and money it would cost to move a finished AAA game from one proprietary 3rd party engine to another? They would effectively be REMAKING THE ENTIRE GAME. You know why Duke Nukem Forever took so long? They switched engines like 4 times, from Quake to Half-Life to Unreal and so on. I actually AM a game developer, and I call BS. You're a troll or some kid who likes games. Maybe you've made a flash game. But you've never touched Unreal in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliways Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 obviously, you do not completely understand what im saying, i said for future expansions. I have done multiple projects, i even worked on exporting oblivion to cry engine 3, and it looked beautiful. troll in the dungeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamewizX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Why doesn't BioWare do this? I highly doubt you have done any sort of development for any game, indie or not, othewise you would have never asked this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I call shenanigans. I'm calling you out OP. You are not an indie game developer. If you were, if you knew the first thing about video game development, you would never suggest something as asinine as moving from the hero engine to the unreal engine. Do you have any concept whatsoever of how much work and money it would cost to move a finished AAA game from one proprietary 3rd party engine to another? They would effectively be REMAKING THE ENTIRE GAME. You know why Duke Nukem Forever took so long? They switched engines like 4 times, from Quake to Half-Life to Unreal and so on. I actually AM a game developer, and I call BS. You're a troll or some kid who likes games. Maybe you've made a flash game. But you've never touched Unreal in your life. I doubt this I doubt you are a game dev. If you are answer this then. Why is square enix able to rework their entire game in a years worth of dev time? Go ahead amuse me. Oh wait or as a dev do you think its okay to work on a crappy game engine that took 10x the cost to develop and 7 years dev time only to release with medicore graphics and so many bugs its almost like the game just entered beta? If it took them that long and that much money with hero engine and this is the end result.... then objectively speaking it would be wiser to move to a more stable platform in which they have less bugs each content/patch release. Because right now when they patch or add content they break 20 other things to an extent where its noticable to a large degree. Quote from SE on FFXIV and their year plan to work the game over. Wada also included new concept art, an outline, content change list, and development roadmap for the game. The full launch of 2.0 is pegged from October 2012, with a closed beta test for the long-delayed PlayStation 3 version of the game coming in November or December of that same year. In the outline document, Final Fantasy XIV director Naoki Yoshida explains five pillars of the upcoming change: A complete redesign of current repetitive maps The implementation of a new graphics engine A new server system designed for increased speed and performance A fully renewed user interface The expansion of in-game community content So in just one year they are able to completely redo the game engine, maps, server, UI and expand content.... theres no excuse and theres really no arguement here it can be done. Edited January 23, 2012 by Barracudastr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) It is feasible games have done it..... I do believe square enix is doing something similar with V2 of FFXIV. I've never known any game to switch from one third-party engine to another. It just doesn't happen. What I have seen happen (like in the case of EQ) is that they may move from one engine to another custom one, designed from the ground up to be compatible with the original engine. That way, the whole game doesn't need to change; the engine just operates on the same foundation differently, giving different results. I would assume Square Enix is doing the same thing. What the OP suggested is insane. It'll never happen in any MMO, ever. Edited January 23, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talligan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Want to bet its Unreal Engine “It is a pleasure to provide Square Enix with an exceptional game engine that will help them bring thrilling new experiences to legions of fans all over the world,” said Taka Kawasaki, territory manager of Epic Games Japan. “Many Western games have achieved great success with the Unreal Engine, and this milestone reflects the Japanese development community’s trust in our technical prowess. We can’t wait to see how Square Enix fuses the power of Unreal Engine 3 with its beautiful characters, enthralling storylines and fantastic gameplay.” Details about the games using the Unreal Engine under this license agreement will be revealed by Square Enix. I was under the impression the were building a new engine for main numbered Final Fantasy games but using Unreal engine for others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabemx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hello, I am an indie game developer and worked on a couple of indie titles, and would like to give some input to BioWare on how they can improve the game in future expansion. Long story short: It would be very easy and take a short amount of time for BioWare to transfer from the hero engine to something better, lets say the unreal engine; let me put it to you this way, Most of the game is done through coding, 3ds max, and other programs, and there is programs that allows BioWare to take the maps from the Hero Engine and transfer it into another engine. Why doesn't BioWare do this? Because they would have to relearn the whole engine, however I propose to use the Unreal engine, because it's easy to use, it is very good, and was used on games like Mass Effect 1-3, Batman Arkam City, and many other very popular games. BioWare is familiar with this engine. I would also like to point out the Unreal engine 3 is probably the best engine considering there is a wide variety of tools, and other things that allow the animation to be smoother, less delay, and more variety of graphic options that would scale for low to high end builds! This thread failed after "Hello" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've never known any game to switch from one third-party engine to another. It just doesn't happen. What I have seen happen (like in the case of EQ) is that they may move from one engine to another custom one, designed to be compatible with the original engine. That way, the whole game doesn't need to change; the engine just operates on the same foundation differently, giving different results. I would assume Square Enix is doing the same thing. What the OP suggested is insane. It'll never happen in any MMO, ever. Read my post above yours. But most mmo's dont make bad choices at the very start of the game thats why its never really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talligan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I doubt this I doubt you are a game dev. If you are answer this then. Why is square enix able to rework their entire game in a years worth of dev time? Go ahead amuse me. Oh wait or as a dev do you think its okay to work on a crappy game engine that took 10x the cost to develop and 7 years dev time only to release with medicore graphics and so many bugs its almost like the game just entered beta? If it took them that long and that much money with hero engine and this is the end result.... then objectively speaking it would be wiser to move to a more stable platform in which they have less bugs each content/patch release. Because right now when they patch or add content they break 20 other things to an extent where its noticable to a large degree. Quote from SE on FFXIV and their year plan to work the game over. Wada also included new concept art, an outline, content change list, and development roadmap for the game. The full launch of 2.0 is pegged from October 2012, with a closed beta test for the long-delayed PlayStation 3 version of the game coming in November or December of that same year. In the outline document, Final Fantasy XIV director Naoki Yoshida explains five pillars of the upcoming change: A complete redesign of current repetitive maps The implementation of a new graphics engine A new server system designed for increased speed and performance A fully renewed user interface The expansion of in-game community content So in just one year they are able to completely redo the game engine, maps, server, UI and expand content.... theres no excuse and theres really no arguement here it can be done. Because the game has been out for over a year now and the changes/additions they've made to the game in that time has been nominal at best. The game is a ghost town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is there working MMO other than Vanguard Saga of Heroes based on the Unreal Engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was under the impression the were building a new engine for main numbered Final Fantasy games but using Unreal engine for others Could be I am not really sure to be honest. But its interesting none the less that they announce FFXIV is going to a new game engine and then they purchase multiple Unreal lic's. So maybe they are or maybe they are making a new one from the ground up... but I doubt that since they are only taking 1 year to implement the new engine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aharx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Nah. Then they'd have to pay Epic Games. The Unreal Engine is more geared towards FPS games anyways, although they have made a couple MMOs if I remember correctly. Their highlight seems to be FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marasme Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I can transfer this game to Unreal Engine for $100. Shouldn't take longer than 7 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Read my post above yours. But most mmo's dont make bad choices at the very start of the game thats why its never really happened. I just read it, and it doesn't really invalidate anything I said. You can't just drop in a new third-party game engine. It's possible to write a completely new compatible one, but there's no way this games engine could be replaced with the Unreal engine. It's not an option, and anyone who's even slightly familiar with game development would know that. I don't know who the OP thinks he's fooling, but his claims that his friend "exported" Oblivion to the Cry engine, and the YouTube video link he posted, are obvious BS to anyone who has even the slightest clue about what a game engine is. Edited January 23, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talligan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Could be I am not really sure to be honest. But its interesting none the less that they announce FFXIV is going to a new game engine and then they purchase multiple Unreal lic's. So maybe they are or maybe they are making a new one from the ground up... but I doubt that since they are only taking 1 year to implement the new engine.. Oh it could be, I hadn't considered them moving to an already established engine - tbh it might be the best thing they could do at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Any independent developer would know how limited U3 is in the application to the MMO genre. SOE used it semi-successfully with DCUO but that title didn't even go a year before becoming a flash in the pan. If you're not going to build an engine for an MMO, there are several ways to go that are more effective for the genre, Gamebyro is a popular choice and has been used in multiple MMO titles, including World of Warcraft. Hero Engine is relatively new and is showing a fair level of success in the TOR product. There is also Unity, which I feel is more versatile but everyone has their personal taste. U3 is a very dynamic and robust engine, not knocking it, but its not an optimal platform for MMO development beyond small scale, heavily instanced projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is there working MMO other than Vanguard Saga of Heroes based on the Unreal Engine? theres about 25 mmo's using unreal engine. Heres some of the top ones coming for this year. -Tera -Blade and soul -Bless -The new marvel super heros mmo.... lazy didn't look up the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Nah. Then they'd have to pay Epic Games. The Unreal Engine is more geared towards FPS games anyways, although they have made a couple MMOs if I remember correctly. Their highlight seems to be FPS. A couple? try a couple dozen. Google is your friend m8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I doubt this I doubt you are a game dev. If you are answer this then. Why is square enix able to rework their entire game in a years worth of dev time? Go ahead amuse me. Because the game is garbage? Who cares? WHY are we still responding to this thread in the first place? Anyone who thinks BW is going to do this is living in fantasy land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Because the game is garbage? Who cares? WHY are we still responding to this thread in the first place? Anyone who thinks BW is going to do this is living in fantasy land. No one thinks they are going to . But people think they should. Heres a question for everyone. How many game titles of note have been created wtih heroengine vs mmo titles of note created with unreal engine? Its amusing I assure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpphantom Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I can transfer this game to Unreal Engine for $100. Shouldn't take longer than 7 days. I'll get it to you by Friday and it'll only cost $50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quip Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'll get it to you by Friday and it'll only cost $50. I'll move this game to my cork board for a case of beer and a bag of nachos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarine Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Although I agree the Unreal Engine is very nice, I have played many games that use it & I purchased a Lifetime Sub of DCUO one week after launch simply due to hoe beautiful the game looks, BioWare are already quite familiar with it. Their Mass Effect game uses it, & looks absolutely gorgeous ... However, they deliberately chose the Hero Engine for a specific Reason. What that reason is, I have no idea, but there MUST be some logical reason they chose this particular engine. I can only summise therefore that the game's true potential has not yet been reached & we'll see more & more, in the course of Expansions, WHY they chose this engine over another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luhgnuts Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hello, I am an indie game developer and worked on a couple of indie titles, and would like to give some input to BioWare on how they can improve the game in future expansion. Long story short: It would be very easy and take a short amount of time for BioWare to transfer from the hero engine to something better, lets say the unreal engine; let me put it to you this way, Most of the game is done through coding, 3ds max, and other programs, and there is programs that allows BioWare to take the maps from the Hero Engine and transfer it into another engine. Why doesn't BioWare do this? Because they would have to relearn the whole engine, however I propose to use the Unreal engine, because it's easy to use, it is very good, and was used on games like Mass Effect 1-3, Batman Arkam City, and many other very popular games. BioWare is familiar with this engine. I would also like to point out the Unreal engine 3 is probably the best engine considering there is a wide variety of tools, and other things that allow the animation to be smoother, less delay, and more variety of graphic options that would scale for low to high end builds! And as an "Indie Developer" you should understand the financial repercussions regarding development cycles, licensing, testing, distribution, server coding, and Return on Investment. Technical reasons and financial reasons are two different things. Why would a company just re-do a whole complete/complex client / server platform just because someone said another engine is "better". I'm sure the bean counters and investors would just love to double their development costs with no additional ROI just because another engine is "better". Tell you what? Whatever car you drive, buy an Engine from BMW and put it in your car, at your own expense. Why? Because it's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Heroengine is behind only 2 games I believe.... Faxion and.... swtor Unreal engine is behind over 24 mmo's. People saying Unreal is for FPS or geared more for FPS clearly are wrong. or MMO devs wouldn't be using it lol... they would use something else like Unity.... heroengine....ya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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