iceperson Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's because you're not supposed to be a dedicated healer in pvp in this game. This game is more about balancing healing and damage because even heal classes can do damage perfectly well a heal spec sorc trying to do damage will do relatively little damage and spend a lot of time out of force and completely useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I go full, dedicated healer in warzones not for medals (it's a crap way to get medals), but frankly, to infuriate mine enemies and benefit my team. I have a blast doing it. I get my gear that I care about in PVE; sure, it isn't the PVP gear I'd like, but, whatever, I'll worry about PVP gear when the whole gear system for it isn't a broken-arse slot machine. Isn't a fix to any of the problems, but changing my perspective preserves my own enjoyment. Just my mileage. Would be awfully nice if they'd more effectively reward support/heal behaviours though. Pity that I'm not at all sure how they could create a blind system to reactively reward tactical play. I guess 'Victory' is the reward for that, for as much as it doesn't amount to a lot mechanically if you're the guy with 3-5 medals 'cause all you do is heal, run distraction and be a foe-harrier for others to tear down. Edited January 23, 2012 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's because you're not supposed to be a dedicated healer in pvp in this game. This game is more about balancing healing and damage because even heal classes can do damage perfectly well So what you're saying is that if I'm in a heal spec and can do 20 heals per energy, and 10 damage per energy I should dps even if people need healing? Nice logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That's ridiculous. Of course a Dps should be able to kill a healer. They are a SUPPORT class not a Tanking class (People seem to forget this). If a healer can't heal another player faster than that player takes damage from a single player attacker then there is no place for a healer. What he said is true, if a healer can't outheal the damage from 1 player then healers would be completely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You do realize this game has shorter CDs on interrupts than pretty much any other game out there. other games generally lockout all heals when you interrupt, no class that knows what they're doing really suffers downtime from having a single skill from their talented tree locked out, not even tracer spamming mercs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 other games generally lockout all heals when you interrupt, no class that knows what they're doing really suffers downtime from having a single skill from their talented tree locked out, not even tracer spamming mercs. if 1 player can't kill a healer 1v1 then no one cares (it's a not about 1v1 balance), if 2 players can't kill one healer, well... then they are terrible and it has nothing to do with the healer being OP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) A healing class being able to tank a single DPSer is the right way to go, in my opinion. It's a good general baseline in my opinion, considering good and known healers will get trained by more than one DPS all game. BUT. This game has Guard. That throws everything off. Giving a solo healer without Guard the ability to tank a single DPS will only make him neigh unkillable despite the most coordinated chain CC's and burst damage possible WHEN he does get Guard. Honestly, as cool as it is, and as much as I appreciate it as a healer, it's going to be a thorn in the dev's side as far as balance is concerned. It's going to be another issue like the other age old balance conundrums. "How do we balance for both a Warrior when he has pocket heals and and when he doesn't at the same time?" "How do we balance for Mortal Strike debuff if one side has it and the other side doesn't?" "How do we balance a Mage survivablity/damage ratio for when he's happily bursting from the backline and when he's getting trained by 12039812903 people?" Edited January 23, 2012 by Puzzlybox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) If a healer can't heal another player faster than that player takes damage from a single player attacker then there is no place for a healer. What he said is true, if a healer can't outheal the damage from 1 player then healers would be completely useless. This isn't true. I can't out-heal a good marauder or assassin unless I use LoS/kiting/CC, but despite that I know healers have value in warzones. If we're left alone we can easily out-heal 2-3 dps. Edited January 23, 2012 by Jooji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphexdash Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) If a healer can't heal another player faster than that player takes damage from a single player attacker then there is no place for a healer. What he said is true, if a healer can't outheal the damage from 1 player then healers would be completely useless. Did I say heal ANOTHER player? No. I said if a Dps is attacking you and you're self healing you should die. (You should think about what I've said). Edited January 23, 2012 by Aphexdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominemesis Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I do 400k healing in a warzone. A dps does 240k damage. I get 4 medals. He gets 9 medals. Got broken? Why won't any devs respond to this issue? Anyway I'm officially done healing. We're better off farming medals and LOSING than healing and WINNING for the valor grind. and what about objectives, and stopping cappers. I have seen healers end with less healing done and more medals, because...wait for it...you get medals for more than just healing done and damage done. THE MYSTERY IS SOLVED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Did I say heal ANOTHER player? No. I said if a Dps is attacking you and you're self healing you should die. (You should think about what I've said). maybe you should think about what you said "healer should be a free kill to DPS" has got to be the most idiotic thing I've seen on this board, and I've seen a lot of retarded stuff here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 and what about objectives, and stopping cappers. I have seen healers end with less healing done and more medals, because...wait for it...you get medals for more than just healing done and damage done. THE MYSTERY IS SOLVED! Survey says..............................wrong. The objective medals are obtained via DPSing, not healing. I can't get a defender medal in Voidstar or Huttball by healing. I'm not going to let a dps die who can stop the cap himself just to farm myself another medal...might as well just respec as I've done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmASpaceship Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I do 400k healing in a warzone. A dps does 240k damage. I get 4 medals. He gets 9 medals. Got broken? Why won't any devs respond to this issue? Anyway I'm officially done healing. We're better off farming medals and LOSING than healing and WINNING for the valor grind. As a DPS Sniper on a PVP server this BOTHERS THE HELL OUT OF ME. I am not an emotional person, I just want my INTEGRAL support structure to be rewarded for being AWESOME, okay?! Can we PLEASE up the rewards for healers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphexdash Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) maybe you should think about what you said "healer should be a free kill to DPS" has got to be the most idiotic thing I've seen on this board, and I've seen a lot of retarded stuff here... rofl. Yes, you can outheal dps. What would the point of being dps then? A Dps attacking a self-healing Healer, will use interupts, increase casting time, stun, debuff etc etc A Healer that is healing another player won't have any of that, so therefore the target of the heals will survive. "healer should be a free kill to DPS" <- If given a strictly 1v1 setup (which isn't probable, other than both meeting and dismissing companions), not a 'free' kill but it should eventually end with the healer dead. All your retorts are just name calling with no actual substance? Edited January 23, 2012 by Aphexdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizwall Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The players seem to hate healers as well. I can do 400k healing, assist on a lot of hut scores by pulling players over the line, and not a single vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 The players seem to hate healers as well. I can do 400k healing, assist on a lot of hut scores by pulling players over the line, and not a single vote. Yup, people vote based only on medals. They could easily fix healers by giving medals for healing players doing objective play(flag carrier, stopping voidstar caps, etc) and giving us healing in one life medals kinda like how tanks get their guard medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somir Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorc/Sage earning only 4 medals in a match is quite clearly doing it wrong. Not quite so true for the Tech healers, but Sorc/Sages in particular have the capability to earn medals from protection, healing, damage, and defender points, all in one go. they should never be at the bottom unless they're bad or woefully undergeared (and probably also bad). Like i said, not quite true for Tech healers who don't have the ridiculous medal-earning toolkit at their disposal, but that's another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapascuap Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So how would I go about earning 'protection' via guard and taunts as a sage/sorc? I'm interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xehoz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I play an Operative, with Healing spec, except I operate with a balanced approach to play. I tend to average 150k Damage, 25 Kills, 200k Healing, and nine medals. My philosophy is that damage > healing if it's an evenly matched battle. If I'm trying to use my main Heal, it takes 2.8 seconds from the start of me clicking the button before the heal is delivered. This amounts to 1,800-4,500 pending crit due to trauma. Global cooldown is 1.3 seconds. So, within the duration of a 60 second battle, I can either: heal for 21 times, or do anything else 46 times. What do you mean by balanced approach? Hybrid spec? There's no way a Sorc Healer will do 150k dmg while doing 200k healing. No way. The damage a Sorc Healer does is negligible. Sure, we can farm "kills". Technically, you only need to dmg 1hp to participate in a kill. And yeah.. I've healed for over 300k and gotten over 40 kills with an outstanding 60k dmg. If you're trying to tell us the Operative healer is in some way imbalanced - damage wise - in relation to other healers, go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xehoz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorc/Sage earning only 4 medals in a match is quite clearly doing it wrong. Not quite so true for the Tech healers, but Sorc/Sages in particular have the capability to earn medals from protection, healing, damage, and defender points, all in one go. they should never be at the bottom unless they're bad or woefully undergeared (and probably also bad). Like i said, not quite true for Tech healers who don't have the ridiculous medal-earning toolkit at their disposal, but that's another matter entirely. The 'bubble' / Static Barrier counts towards healing, not protection. Tanks get protection points. At least they don't allow folks to get the 2.5k/5k medal for using a medpack anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 There's no way a Sorc Healer will do 150k dmg while doing 200k healing. No way. The damage a Sorc Healer does is negligible. Actually that isn't true. With the 21/2/18 spec I've put out 300k dmg and 300k healing in a couple warzones. If I'm specifically going for medals with that spec, I usually just get my 75k healing asap then go for damage medals.(the 300k/300k I've only done twice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xehoz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Actually that isn't true. With the 21/2/18 spec I've put out 300k dmg and 300k healing in a couple warzones. If I'm specifically going for medals with that spec, I usually just get my 75k healing asap then go for damage medals.(the 300k/300k I've only done twice) err.. that's not a fully specced healer (31 points). That's a hybrid. And yes... with 16 Madness you can do that kind of damage. It all depends on how long the match goes on. I often play PvP with a hybrid build as well. Anyway, that's why I asked the other poster what he meant by "balanced approach". A "pure" healer just won't be capable of doing that amount of damage. Edited January 23, 2012 by Xehoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 err.. that's not a fully specced healer (31 points). That's a hybrid. And yes... with 16 Madness you can do that kind of damage. It all depends on how long the match goes on. I often play PvP with a hybrid build as well. Anyway, that's why I asked the other poster what he meant by "balanced approach". A "pure" healer just won't be capable of doing that amount of damage. Agreed. I don't like the fact we have to give up healing talents and efficiency for the sake of medals :/ That's the whole reason I made this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxatone Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree with this thread. Being a healer is not an easy task in this game and the reward for it is low. Hard to heal when people can crit at 6k damage when you may crit at 4 or 5k heal top (my current experience and usually more around 2,5k). I hope we can have better communication about: - Improving rewards for healer in warzones - Improving class mechanism & utility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyomih Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) What I find most frustrating on top of this is the fact that we need to work much harder as a pure healer. Dps goes something like: Oh look a target! Then spam the two buttons they have on their hotbar (force lightning, stun, tracer missile...a few others? ). For us it's: oh crap my tank is getting hit - oh crap I am getting hit - oh crap I am stunned - oh crap I am ff - oh crap what is my health bar at - oh crap what is my team doing - ah crap the guy I tried to heal run out of los - oh crap I can't los that sorce - ah crap where is that tracer missile spam coming from - ah crap forgot to check my own healthbar again - duh where is that half dead teammember I tried to heal running of to - ah crap need to stay ont he move - ah crap, no one around because they are chasing single kills and I am now faced with an overwhelming force of red names..dead. No offense to anyone but it's just how it feels to me. I still enjoy playing a full healer but god it's painful at times..specially if you do not have a dedicated team behind you. Mind you, not complaining. I think it's a good thing that healers have to work harder. It's always a danger to make healers too powerful. I do however wholeheartedly agree on the medal part. Even though I am a mediocre pvper I manage to get around 6 medals per game (pre 50 that is with generic bracket pvp gear). I gotta say though, if I don't know you and you thank me for heals or I get a mvp vote from a nonguildie, you have a friend for life and if I have to choose between two targets going down the same time I know which of the two I am going to choose Edited January 23, 2012 by Kyomih Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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