Will lack of innovation REALLY hurt this game success?

[AdmiralAdama]

The term "pets" indicate a being with no individual thought or choice. The term "companion" which is what they are indicates a being with their own like/dislikes remarks and complaints... WoW has NONE of these.

 

SW:TOR has no pets. So no everyone does not have a pet.

 

Droids are pets, kinda.

[Godsfear]

Rockpapershotgun.com, a fairly good PC gaming site, did a write up on getting to play GW2 a few months ago.

 

They said that while it is good, the combat isn't as "not-MMO-y" as people think it is. They apparently did a very good job of hiding the MMO-bits beneath a very good veil, but they did not fix them.

 

Well, just the fact that there is no targetting of friendly players will drastically shift the way mmo's are played.

 

Having no direct healing is going to make them balance classes to be more self reliant. Every class will be a pvp friendly class.

 

I also love the fact that when you use GTAOE abilities you have to look at the ground using your camera. Watching a dev vs german guild pvp matches at pax in europe was really interesting. The mages had to physically kite while also dropping GTAOE's on there feet as they ran so pursuers had to run through it. It's little things like this that change the combat. No more tab targetting and turning my camera 90degrees like I do now.

 

Anyways. I'm only pointing out that a shift in mmo mechanics is what us long term mmo players want.

 

That much money thrown into voice acting was a huge waste. Truth is.........90% of players will spend 90% of their time at level cap and will push spacebar as they level alts.

 

The voice acted content was a huge waste of resources when end game content like more Open RVR would hold players attention longer than a cut scene that you'll never return to.

 

Just saying.

[ScytheReaper]

This^

 

The Reason GW2 is so popular for a mmo that isn't released yet is the actual MECHANICS of combat have been drastically changed from the standard hotbar combat.

 

It plays much more like a 3rd person combat game than a traditional mmo.

 

GW2 is not popular in the least actually. checking the current records this game has millions of preorders. On most forums i go to GW2 is hated. AoC tried to break away from combat style also and GW2 is almost coppying that game verbatum. It doesn't work in an MMO. There is also significant concern of originality and lasting appeal for the game. It'll be fresh for like a month but then the undoubtadly repetative random quests will get boring, the no endgame will get boring and the fact that every character is self sufficient will make that boring as well.

 

Then you have the idea that GW2 is going to pump out content for free...right. They are going to nickle and dime you for 5 DLC a month while shipping an expansion, work costs money and no support or content is going to be free. To keep the game updated and recent you will be paying as much if not more in the same time frame as P2P.

 

Nothing about the game seems like it'll actually hold interest. Again AoC tried a new combat mechanic also and recieved prases for it. People tried it. and realized they want an MMO to play like an MMO.

 

The game is in its hype phase. Wait until release is around the corner and you will have plenty of folks like me to question your dollar. Although not me specifically, since i'll be enjoying this game.

 

Call me a fanboy if you wish, but i haven't heard anything nearly as innovative as adding an actual storyline that is interesting about GW2. Random quests will never be as good as scripted ones. Random anything is never as good as a scripted experience. Literally no direction will have players wondering around aimlessly. I can see the quest camping from here. Gear means very little, hell classes in general mean very little. Without the trinity to give people actual differing roles in combat everyone is just basically DPS. Needless to say though the trinity will still make its appearance in the player base just as it did with rift.

 

People are still going to spec out the best tanks and supporters and damage dealers and it will be the same. People are still going to min and max.

[relapes]

Well, just the fact that there is no targetting of friendly players will drastically shift the way mmo's are played.

 

Having no direct healing is going to make them balance classes to be more self reliant. Every class will be a pvp friendly class.

 

I also love the fact that when you use GTAOE abilities you have to look at the ground using your camera. Watching a dev vs german guild pvp matches at pax in europe was really interesting. The mages had to physically kite while also dropping GTAOE's on there feet as they ran so pursuers had to run through it. It's little things like this that change the combat. No more tab targetting and turning my camera 90degrees like I do now.

 

Anyways. I'm only pointing out that a shift in mmo mechanics is what us long term mmo players want.

That much money thrown into voice acting was a huge waste. Truth is.........90% of players will spend 90% of their time at level cap and will push spacebar as they level alts.

The voice acted content was a huge waste of resources when end game content like more Open RVR would hold players attention longer than a cut scene that you'll never return to.

 

Just saying.

 

Not if its a different class, obviously you thought voice over was a waste, this game obviously isnt for you, go away instead of preaching the light to people who arent interested. I have yet to see a class in this game that has an OBJECTIVE disadvantage at pvp in this game, this game seems to have a more skill based instead of gear based game.

[Gamjee]

The innovation to this game is the story system and the minigame stuff. It's really pretty silly to theorize though, the game will likely look entirely different a year from now. I am somewhat concerned by the dependency on voice acting. That could result in a considerable cost increase for development of future content. This will put unusual pressures on various aspect new content creation. For example, cost cuts on other development angles or less content. It's all really hard to say.

[AdmiralAdama]

Well, just the fact that there is no targetting of friendly players will drastically shift the way mmo's are played.

 

Having no direct healing is going to make them balance classes to be more self reliant. Every class will be a pvp friendly class.

 

I also love the fact that when you use GTAOE abilities you have to look at the ground using your camera. Watching a dev vs german guild pvp matches at pax in europe was really interesting. The mages had to physically kite while also dropping GTAOE's on there feet as they ran so pursuers had to run through it. It's little things like this that change the combat. No more tab targetting and turning my camera 90degrees like I do now.

 

Anyways. I'm only pointing out that a shift in mmo mechanics is what us long term mmo players want.

 

That much money thrown into voice acting was a huge waste. Truth is.........90% of players will spend 90% of their time at level cap and will push spacebar as they level alts.

 

The voice acted content was a huge waste of resources when end game content like more Open RVR would hold players attention longer than a cut scene that you'll never return to.

 

Just saying.

Umm I've been playing MMOs, MUDs, and all kinds of games probably for longer than you've been alive.

 

So please do me a favor and don't pretend to speak for me, or any other "long term mmo players."

 

Thanks.

[yomanaaiton]

Relapes, you made this thread and you have insulted almost every person that has a different opinion than you. Why so mad, mate? Just because this game is not great doesn't mean that you're not allowed to like it.

[ScytheReaper]

Well, just the fact that there is no targetting of friendly players will drastically shift the way mmo's are played.

 

Having no direct healing is going to make them balance classes to be more self reliant. Every class will be a pvp friendly class.

 

I also love the fact that when you use GTAOE abilities you have to look at the ground using your camera. Watching a dev vs german guild pvp matches at pax in europe was really interesting. The mages had to physically kite while also dropping GTAOE's on there feet as they ran so pursuers had to run through it. It's little things like this that change the combat. No more tab targetting and turning my camera 90degrees like I do now.

 

Anyways. I'm only pointing out that a shift in mmo mechanics is what us long term mmo players want.

 

That much money thrown into voice acting was a huge waste. Truth is.........90% of players will spend 90% of their time at level cap and will push spacebar as they level alts.

 

The voice acted content was a huge waste of resources when end game content like more Open RVR would hold players attention longer than a cut scene that you'll never return to.

 

Just saying.

 

actually this game should not even be thought of as an MMO. Imagine playing ME without the voice acting...yeah.

 

This game is KOTOR and was always marketed as such. Its a single player experience drawn into a multiplayer one. It is single player in a large and vibrant world with other real people in it.

 

Not the other way around.

 

It was not a huge waste. This game is more fun then I've had with any other game ever. More so then ME and ME2. The storylines are better and combat is funner. I love using my abilities as each one gives a different animation with different effects and all look and play really nicely. Combat is solid.

 

The dialogue is great. It really makes me feel the quality of a single player experience.

[relapes]

Relapes, you made this thread and you have insulted almost every person that has a different opinion than you. Why so mad, mate? Just because this game is not great doesn't mean that you're not allowed to like it.

 

You have stated already that you are here to just bash this game, and you try to hold yourself above me?

[Yfelsung]

Well, just the fact that there is no targetting of friendly players will drastically shift the way mmo's are played.

 

Having no direct healing is going to make them balance classes to be more self reliant. Every class will be a pvp friendly class.

 

I also love the fact that when you use GTAOE abilities you have to look at the ground using your camera. Watching a dev vs german guild pvp matches at pax in europe was really interesting. The mages had to physically kite while also dropping GTAOE's on there feet as they ran so pursuers had to run through it. It's little things like this that change the combat. No more tab targetting and turning my camera 90degrees like I do now.

 

Anyways. I'm only pointing out that a shift in mmo mechanics is what us long term mmo players want.

 

That much money thrown into voice acting was a huge waste. Truth is.........90% of players will spend 90% of their time at level cap and will push spacebar as they level alts.

 

The voice acted content was a huge waste of resources when end game content like more Open RVR would hold players attention longer than a cut scene that you'll never return to.

 

Just saying.

 

I'm a long time MMO player and all I really want is for them to remake DAOC 2, which should be exactly like DAOC 1, but prettier.

 

With voice acting.

[csward]

What the title says.

 

I know I probably will get a lot of "no" because this place being rampant with fanboys, but I think similarities to WoW will hurt this game for a lot of people.

 

It adds enough new things to feel different from WoW. I mean, Rift has less innovation than this game and it is doing fine and is probably successful in that it turned a profit.

 

Anyways, EA has said the game only needs 500,000 subs to be profitable and projects this game to have 3 million players in 6 months (which I think is quite conservative).

[Godsfear]

GW2 is not popular in the least actually. checking the current records this game has millions of preorders. On most forums i go to GW2 is hated. AoC tried to break away from combat style also and GW2 is almost coppying that game verbatum. It doesn't work in an MMO. There is also significant concern of originality and lasting appeal for the game. It'll be fresh for like a month but then the undoubtadly repetative random quests will get boring, the no endgame will get boring and the fact that every character is self sufficient will make that boring as well.

 

Then you have the idea that GW2 is going to pump out content for free...right. They are going to nickle and dime you for 5 DLC a month while shipping an expansion, work costs money and no support or content is going to be free. To keep the game updated and recent you will be paying as much if not more in the same time frame as P2P.

 

Nothing about the game seems like it'll actually hold interest. Again AoC tried a new combat mechanic also and recieved prases for it. People tried it. and realized they want an MMO to play like an MMO.

 

The game is in its hype phase. Wait until release is around the corner and you will have plenty of folks like me to question your dollar. Although not me specifically, since i'll be enjoying this game.

 

Call me a fanboy if you wish, but i haven't heard anything nearly as innovative as adding an actual storyline that is interesting about GW2. Random quests will never be as good as scripted ones. Random anything is never as good as a scripted experience. Literally no direction will have players wondering around aimlessly. I can see the quest camping from here. Gear means very little, hell classes in general mean very little. Without the trinity to give people actual differing roles in combat everyone is just basically DPS. Needless to say though the trinity will still make its appearance in the player base just as it did with rift.

 

People are still going to spec out the best tanks and supporters and damage dealers and it will be the same. People are still going to min and max.

 

First of all. I really don't believe you've done any to little actual research on GW2.

 

Secondly I have no problem being nickled and dimed if the game is good. I've spent well over 300$ on League of Legends just buying champs I hardly play. I have 180 steam games many of the newer ones i've never played. League of Legends has started the new pay model for online games. Get used to it cause it's only going to expand.

 

Third GW2 lets you have max level toons at level 1 with full pvp gear so B2win isn't a issue like it is in RIFT. ( I quit rift a few months ago because pvp became too easy with myRank 8 gear) MAJOR flaw in mmo's is the pvp gear grind. It just discourages new players who get blown up by guys like me with the best gear and G13's and Razer mice.

 

End game of GW2 is pvp. They've already said that they have player ran tournies. You can start custom pvp maps. Sorry bud but a game without money involved in pvp is not going into the future.

 

League of Legends has 5 million up for grabs this season and Gw2 understand this. Money makes Esports. Pro's play games with money. The fact that Gw2 is releasing with competitive tools already installed speaks volumes.

[Godsfear]

actually this game should not even be thought of as an MMO. Imagine playing ME without the voice acting...yeah.

 

This game is KOTOR and was always marketed as such. Its a single player experience drawn into a multiplayer one. It is single player in a large and vibrant world with other real people in it.

 

Not the other way around.

 

It was not a huge waste. This game is more fun then I've had with any other game ever. More so then ME and ME2. The storylines are better and combat is funner. I love using my abilities as each one gives a different animation with different effects and all look and play really nicely. Combat is solid.

 

The dialogue is great. It really makes me feel the quality of a single player experience.

 

I'm sorry but comparing Me1 and Me2 to Swtors single player experience...............PPLLLEEAAASSSSSSSSSSEEEE.

 

Me1 and Me2's single player experience is far better. That's like tellling me McDonald's is better than a 5 star restaurant.

 

Only a redneck would claim that. Me1 and Me2's single player experience far outway anything this game has to offer.

[Godsfear]

I'm a long time MMO player and all I really want is for them to remake DAOC 2, which should be exactly like DAOC 1, but prettier.

 

With voice acting.

 

This^

 

Btw, a recent Reddit post from a GW2 dev said they have destructable castles and siege weapons in beta now. He also said there main goal is to recreat a DAOC game.

 

He said they've already had 500 player open world battles.

 

You give me DAOC game play with GW2 graphics and it's GG competition.

[relapes]

First of all. I really don't believe you've done any to little actual research on GW2.

 

Secondly I have no problem being nickled and dimed if the game is good. I've spent well over 300$ on League of Legends just buying champs I hardly play. I have 180 steam games many of the newer ones i've never played. League of Legends has started the new pay model for online games. Get used to it cause it's only going to expand.

 

Third GW2 lets you have max level toons at level 1 with full pvp gear so B2win isn't a issue like it is in RIFT. ( I quit rift a few months ago because pvp became too easy with myRank 8 gear) MAJOR flaw in mmo's is the pvp gear grind. It just discourages new players who get blown up by guys like me with the best gear and G13's and Razer mice.

 

End game of GW2 is pvp. They've already said that they have player ran tournies. You can start custom pvp maps. Sorry bud but a game without money involved in pvp is not going into the future.

 

League of Legends has 5 million up for grabs this season and Gw2 understand this. Money makes Esports. Pro's play games with money. The fact that Gw2 is releasing with competitive tools already installed speaks volumes.

 

Hardcore PVPers are a minority that GW2 will appeal to, F2P is like a highway with a toll every 1/4th a mile, LoL is an exception due to how well designed and addictive it is. In skyrim the fact that Dragons go anywhere whenever was appealing and nerve-racking at first, but then lost its charm, the persistence system in GW2 will probably end up the same. Random PVE scenarios have this "charm" that keeps it fun, but once it loses its charm you will prefer scripted. GW2 will probably be a pretty good game that will appeal to the PVP crowd but the ever changing enviorments will lose their charm quick. Also the game seems extremely technically out there, seems like not many will be able to play on ideal settings.

Edited December 15, 2011 by relapes

[Logisitcs]

 

End game of GW2 is pvp. They've already said that they have player ran tournies. You can start custom pvp maps. Sorry bud but a game without money involved in pvp is not going into the future.

 

League of Legends has 5 million up for grabs this season and Gw2 understand this. Money makes Esports. Pro's play games with money. The fact that Gw2 is releasing with competitive tools already installed speaks volumes.

 

Good for the hardcore pvpers, they have a place to go to now

[Yfelsung]

This^

 

Btw, a recent Reddit post from a GW2 dev said they have destructable castles and siege weapons in beta now. He also said there main goal is to recreat a DAOC game.

 

He said they've already had 500 player open world battles.

 

You give me DAOC game play with GW2 graphics and it's GG competition.

 

But I want DAOC gameplay in DAOC's world.

 

The furries, elves and techno-hobbits don't do it for me in GW2.

 

I want something grim as ****, not a vomit of colour.

[AdmiralAdama]

This^

 

Btw, a recent Reddit post from a GW2 dev said they have destructable castles and siege weapons in beta now. He also said there main goal is to recreat a DAOC game.

 

He said they've already had 500 player open world battles.

 

You give me DAOC game play with GW2 graphics and it's GG competition.

 

Unless it has 3 factions it won't be the same. Ever. A 3rd faction just changes things completely.

[relapes]

Seems to me GW2 is dependent on flashy technology (doesnt last too long), open world changing enviorments (don't keep their charm for long, in any game), and PVP (which could give it success). Seems like they are more about frazzle dazzle instead of making sure it is a long lasting experience, I am sure it will be a great game though for a specific crowd.

 

Companions and voice overs do last long though for games (Look at all bioware games)

 

But honestly if your so interested in GW2 go to people who feel the same, don't preach here your being a pest.

Edited December 15, 2011 by relapes

[shanil]

WOOOOW

 

What a troll this guy is. Play the game first buddy and then to its end before you start a thread about the 'lack of'.

 

Come on dude its like reviewing a product you never bought.

[relapes]

WOOOOW

 

What a troll this guy is. Play the game first buddy and then to its end before you start a thread about the 'lack of'.

 

Come on dude its like reviewing a product you never bought.

 

I have played the game, 2 beta weekends.

[Godsfear]

Hardcore PVPers are a minority that GW2 will appeal to, F2P is like a highway with a toll every 1/4th a mile, LoL is an exception due to how well designed and addictive it is. In skyrim the fact that Dragons go anywhere whenever was appealing and nerve-racking at first, but then lost its charm, the persistence system in GW2 will probably end up the same. Random PVE scenarios have this "charm" that keeps it fun, but once it loses its charm you will prefer scripted. GW2 will probably be a pretty good game that will appeal to the PVP crowd but the ever changing enviorments will lose their charm quick. Also the game seems extremely technically out there, seems like not many will be able to play on ideal settings.

 

I won't argue any of these points. I do think GW2 will be more about pvp than most people care to enjoy.

 

also If I have read dev posts saying that LOL is a model they're trying to follow. The way they've limited the amount of skills available for instance. Anyone who plays lol knows you can have very deep combat meta with as little as 6 skills.

 

I do agree the pve aspect is over done for both games. Gw2 is doing something very similiar with voice acted stories and I think this is a mistake but so be it. One thing i do know is they aren't sinking nearly as much money into that aspect of the game as BW did.

 

Yeah, it may be bad but i would rather be hopeful for a game that isn't out yet than pretend a game that is out is better than it actually is.

 

I'm not saying Swtors is bad at all. I think it's quality for the most part. What I am saying though is that hotbar combat needs to move on and evolve.

 

Swtors while being Mcdonalds is still good if you stop thinking about it. I'm still waiting though for my Filet Mignon.

[AdmiralAdama]

I have played the game, 2 beta weekends.

 

So basically 3% of the game?

[Godsfear]

Unless it has 3 factions it won't be the same. Ever. A 3rd faction just changes things completely.

 

It is 3 factions.

 

Actually it's 3 servers vs each other.

 

Every 2 weeks they switch servers and you compete for dominance. Winners get server wide buffs.

 

It's Server vs Server vs Server. they call it WvWvW

Edited December 15, 2011 by Godsfear

[ScytheReaper]

First of all. I really don't believe you've done any to little actual research on GW2.

 

Secondly I have no problem being nickled and dimed if the game is good. I've spent well over 300$ on League of Legends just buying champs I hardly play. I have 180 steam games many of the newer ones i've never played. League of Legends has started the new pay model for online games. Get used to it cause it's only going to expand.

 

Third GW2 lets you have max level toons at level 1 with full pvp gear so B2win isn't a issue like it is in RIFT. ( I quit rift a few months ago because pvp became too easy with myRank 8 gear) MAJOR flaw in mmo's is the pvp gear grind. It just discourages new players who get blown up by guys like me with the best gear and G13's and Razer mice.

 

End game of GW2 is pvp. They've already said that they have player ran tournies. You can start custom pvp maps. Sorry bud but a game without money involved in pvp is not going into the future.

 

League of Legends has 5 million up for grabs this season and Gw2 understand this. Money makes Esports. Pro's play games with money. The fact that Gw2 is releasing with competitive tools already installed speaks volumes.

 

Iv done enough to know what I'm talking about. Believe me or don't. What do I care? Anyways you are pretty much proving my points here. GW2 does let you have max level toons at level 1. Which will, in my view from here, get utterly repetative and make leveling pointless. Strange you will probably spend upwards of $500 on GW2 while, in the same time frame, I will recieve continuous content rollouts and updates for likely a fifth of that cost.

 

End Game is PvP. I am not interested in pvp and neither are most of the people I know. I like it to be present as a fun distraction though. Plus this game has endgame pvp and raiding anyways. Don't want to be part of an E-sport. Especially because I mostly am uninterested in PvP.

 

I'm talking about normal players who aren't going to want to get into GW2 to be a PvP E sport. For those that just want to play the game, trust me, it will get dull quickly. Classes have no unique roles in combat, just different forms of damage damage damage heal. Quests are completely random and will really only equate to "ZOMG THERES GOBLINS IN THE CAVE! KILL THEM" Their bosses are impressive yet the encounters are not.

 

The bosses just seem to flail their arms around while from what I've actually seen of flashpoints the bosses are quite epic encounters.

 

In the end though the appeals of the two games are different as night and day and they actually can live in harmony believe it or not. SWTOR is far more story oriented and can be thought of as a ME universe that is alive and vibrant with coop experiences that the player can partake in throughout. The PvE is intensely refined to almost no competition. The combat mechanics work very well, the animations are flawless. Every class has different mechanics which is hugely innovative (SEE: the smuggler cover mechanics). It is just more for me.

 

GW2 looks and (according to those that have played it) feels like an AoC with heavy PvP emphasis similar to WAR's. You get in for the PvP. I've so far heard the PvE is pitiful and at times close to non existant. With players wondering for hours to not find any quests due to them all being completed. People spawning known quest areas and such. This is a PvP game through and through. If you like that then cool. I don't and I like my unique roles in combat.