Will lack of innovation REALLY hurt this game success?

[relapes]

Did WoW's lack of innovation hurt its success?

 

WoW is from a different time, when nothing was expected much of MMOs.

[Godsfear]

Have you ever seen any gameplay of GuildWars 2?

...and that's in Alpha.

It is possible to deliver good gameplay as well as good graphics.

Not hating on ToR though, just saying.

 

Yeah, GW2's graphics in Alpha blow away SWtor's. Not hating just saying. I really do wish Swtor didn't shoot so low end with their specs.

[PlayLoud]

What the title says.

 

I know I probably will get a lot of "no" because this place being rampant with fanboys, but I think similarities to WoW will hurt this game for a lot of people.

 

Was WoW hurt by its similarities to EverQuest?

[PostalTwinkie]

Something else I will add along the lines of this innovation discussion....

 

How can you not look at the companion AI and not feel there is innovation with it? I managed to cram in about 50 hours in the weekend beta at the end of November, and can say that the companion AI is amazing. Without a doubt it was better than a lot of people I have ran into on any MMO, they felt like a good player running around with you. At not point had I wished I didn't have my companion with me, in fact at one point I sent Vetta off to do a few things and missed her! I actually just stopped and waited for that 2 minutes before pressing on.

 

When was the last time an MMO brought this level of companion AI to the table?

[relapes]

Yeah, GW2's graphics in Alpha blow away SWtor's. Not hating just saying. I really do wish Swtor didn't shoot so low end with their specs.

 

Good god dude, Is their any GW2 forum anywhere? SWTOR is aiming for the low end for more customers, stylized graphics last longer than those that try to be realistic.

[PostalTwinkie]

Yeah, GW2's graphics in Alpha blow away SWtor's. Not hating just saying. I really do wish Swtor didn't shoot so low end with their specs.

 

Visually they were acceptable in beta, though I was hoping for launch they would be turned up a notch for systems that can handle it.

[makau]

If anything I think the fact that this game is similar in ways to WoW & Rift will help the game immensely. All these games that have come out that have changed things up a lot, didn't do so well. Rift is doig okay. It's fairly similar to WoW, but has a few innovations. TOR is similar to WoW, has some innovations, but is set in an entirely new theme (unlike Rift). Plus it is way more hyped, and is being run by more accomplished companies. TOR will do just fine. In a year this game will have so much content and changes, it will be awesome.

 

The only game coming out in the future, that I think will do well despite changing things up, is GW2. Which also has a built in advantage by not having a subscription.

Edited December 15, 2011 by makau

[yomanaaiton]

RELAPES The vast majority seem to dislike almost any similarity to WoW or traditional MMO play, they lust for graphics that compete with BF3 and REVOLUTION, which SWTOR does not provide, which scares many players away.

 

That is because people do not realize how impossible it would be, at this point in time, to have that quality of graphics in an MMO. A simple multiplayer game is possible, but NOT in an MMO. The more features and customization people demand, the less they can provide in graphics.

 

Actually, I believe most would be happy with Guild Wars 2 or Aion or even Rift level graphics. SW:TOR doesn't have as good graphics. Moreover, graphics isn't even a major complaint to most. It's the gameplay that's bland and generic that hurts the game the most.

 

And actually, a good way to revolutionize it would be to look BACK at the game's legacy instead of doing he same thing WOW and all the games like it did with a few additions/tweaks that have no real impact. What about some turn based system like KOTOR's? Personally I would enjoy that a lot more than the current system. It WORKS, sure, but it's the same I've been playing for 10 years, it's just boring now. At least it would be a nice alternative, more relaxed (fits MMO play a lot, players that play MMO like laid back gaming).

 

And keep the feats from KOTOR (actually, they are kinda like what WOW did with the new talents but a lot better if u ask me). There's so many things you can do instead of copying the talent trees from all other games and their cookiecutterness. It's just a waste.

Edited December 15, 2011 by yomanaaiton

[ScytheReaper]

You cant hold one poll against everyone, only 56%? I dont think that is enough for SWTOR to become as big as it needs.

 

how big does it need? I'm just saying at least I did SOME research rather then blindly throwing statistics around.

 

Everyone wants their view point to be the majority and the competition to be the minority. From my research (which is more then most people seem to do) It seems about even. So while yes it lacks some integrety its certainly more accurate then just shouting random statistics.

 

At least I'm getting them from an actual sample of people.

 

Everyone who is interested in MMORPG's love this game. Including myself.

It makes just as much since to complain about point and click mechanics in an FPS. Don't like the core mechanics? try action adventure games or something else.

 

Given that GW2 is in the hype phase I'd wait about 6 months after both have released to truly look back in retrospect. I honestly can't see GW2 lasting much longer then a single player experience aside from its PvP. Which the biggest E-sport in the world (SC2) only brings in about 200k players currently, although that number may rise ones the new heart of the swarm comes out.

 

I can almost gaurantee that a year from now none of this discussion will even matter. Hype is so fickle by then GW2 will be practically non-existent. This game will all depend on how much of a snowball it can capture.

[relapes]

Actually, I believe most would be happy with Guild Wars 2 or Aion or even Rift level graphics. SW:TOR doesn't have as good graphics. Moreover, graphics isn't even a major complaint to most. It's the gameplay that's bland and generic that hurts the game the most.

 

And actually, a good way to revolutionize it would be to look BACK at the game's legacy instead of doing he same thing WOW and all the games like it did with a few additions/tweaks that have no real impact. What about some turn based system like KOTOR's? Personally I would enjoy that a lot more than the current system. It WORKS, sure, but it's the same I've been playing for 10 years, it's just boring now. At least it would be a nice alternative, more relaxed (fits MMO play a lot, players that play MMO like laid back gaming).

 

And keep the feats from KOTOR (actually, they are kinda like what WOW did with the new talents but a lot better if u ask me). There's so many things you can do instead of copying the talent trees from all other games and their cookiecutterness. It's just a waste.

 

You live a very sad sad life man it makes me laugh, like a dark comedy. Godsfear and this jawa the Ed Wood of trolling.

 

Edit: I highly doubt you have been alive for 10 years.

Edited December 15, 2011 by relapes

[Fardarter]

Was WoW hurt by its similarities to EverQuest?

 

That is a pretty valid statement. In 2004 WoW was familiar to anyone who was playing EQ or DAOC or even Asheron's Call. It didn't FEEL like any of them. I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel to be successful.

 

We will have a better idea soon enough. GW2, if it can deliver on its claims will be a departure from what most of us know simply because it is doing away with the trinity which I think will be a neat trick if they can pull it off.

[relapes]

That is a pretty valid statement. In 2004 WoW was familiar to anyone who was playing EQ or DAOC or even Asheron's Call. It didn't FEEL like any of them. I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel to be successful.

 

We will have a better idea soon enough. GW2, if it can deliver on its claims will be a departure from what most of us know simply because it is doing away with the trinity which I think will be a neat trick if they can pull it off.

 

Not getting rid of trinity, just healers.

[Toohuman]

WoW is exactly like WoW and did extremely well.

 

^ Brilliant ... lol

[ScytheReaper]

Actually, I believe most would be happy with Guild Wars 2 or Aion or even Rift level graphics. SW:TOR doesn't have as good graphics. Moreover, graphics isn't even a major complaint to most. It's the gameplay that's bland and generic that hurts the game the most.

 

And actually, a good way to revolutionize it would be to look BACK at the game's legacy instead of doing he same thing WOW and all the games like it did with a few additions/tweaks that have no real impact. What about some turn based system like KOTOR's? Personally I would enjoy that a lot more than the current system. It WORKS, sure, but it's the same I've been playing for 10 years, it's just boring now. At least it would be a nice alternative, more relaxed (fits MMO play a lot, players that play MMO like laid back gaming).

 

And keep the feats from KOTOR (actually, they are kinda like what WOW did with the new talents but a lot better if u ask me). There's so many things you can do instead of copying the talent trees from all other games and their cookiecutterness. It's just a waste.

 

How is the gameplay bland or generic at all? Its fun as hell. Every class plays completely differently.

 

You can't implement a turn based system in an MMO. What are you going to pause everyones game? Pausing is impossible in MMO's.

 

Have you played it or are you just ranting?

 

It didn't feel anything like WoW to me.

[LordNyxus]

Have you ever seen any gameplay of GuildWars 2?

...and that's in Alpha.

It is possible to deliver good gameplay as well as good graphics.

Not hating on ToR though, just saying.

 

GW2 looks great, I have been following it since it was announced. However, I am talking about customization and content. Graphics cards can only handle a certain number of draw calls at a time. The more "unique" features, graphically, there are the more draw calls which will be needed.

 

We try to fight this limitation by batching as many similar graphics into a single draw call as we can. When it comes down to it, not only do we have to worry about draw calls, we have to worry about UVWs, post-process lighting, poly counts, etc. It truly adds up very fast.

 

In a single player game it becomes quite easy to manage since you only have one really customizable character. In a multi-player came it is more difficult, In an MMO it is extremely difficult.

 

I believe that APB has the most customization in a MMO at this point in time. It was released about a year ago. Take a look at their graphics! SWG (I know the bashers will be jumping in line now) had an extreme amount of customization, especially for an MMO released almost a decade ago. The graphics were not very good.

 

My point is, when you ask for lots and lots of features and the ability for lots of customization do not complain because the graphics aren't realistic, because it is you (the one complaining, not you as in you) who is not realistic.

[yomanaaiton]

How is the gameplay bland or generic at all? Its fun as hell. Every class plays completely differently.

 

You can't implement a turn based system in an MMO. What are you going to pause everyones game? Pausing is impossible in MMO's.

 

Have you played it or are you just ranting?

 

It didn't feel anything like WoW to me.

 

Well, maybe it's not bland to you, but I've been playing WOW 5 years, from Vanilla to Lich King and I'm sick of it, the gameplay is the exact same as WOW's, without an auto attack. It does make a tiny difference but it does more bad than good (I have to always be on my toes, can't browse and relax at the same time as playing, etc).

 

And no, you don't need a pause combat button to have KOTOR's combat, what the hell are you talking about? The pause was mostly so you can assign commands to your entire squad. You just have 1 character here, companion is A.I.

[Godsfear]

Actually, I believe most would be happy with Guild Wars 2 or Aion or even Rift level graphics. SW:TOR doesn't have as good graphics. Moreover, graphics isn't even a major complaint to most. It's the gameplay that's bland and generic that hurts the game the most.

 

And actually, a good way to revolutionize it would be to look BACK at the game's legacy instead of doing he same thing WOW and all the games like it did with a few additions/tweaks that have no real impact. What about some turn based system like KOTOR's? Personally I would enjoy that a lot more than the current system. It WORKS, sure, but it's the same I've been playing for 10 years, it's just boring now. At least it would be a nice alternative, more relaxed (fits MMO play a lot, players that play MMO like laid back gaming).

 

And keep the feats from KOTOR (actually, they are kinda like what WOW did with the new talents but a lot better if u ask me). There's so many things you can do instead of copying the talent trees from all other games and their cookiecutterness. It's just a waste.

 

It's not so much the low res textures for Swtor's as much as the young person cartoony style. It makes me miss WAR in that sense.

 

That is also what killed Rift for me after awhile was how uninspired the Art work was. GW2 is one of the only mmo's besides WAR that has a great aesthetic. WAR had years of Gamesworkshop lore to work with. GW2 is inspired by paintings. Stwors seems to be inspired by the clone wars a after school cartoon when I was in my early 20's?

 

I know that if you want the biggest numbers you may need to have childish graphics but.......that sucks.

 

I even resubbed to WOW for a free week 8 or so months ago and couldnt play the graphics are so bad.

 

Personally graphics really help with immersion and I'm a adult with a job so I can have a decent computer. Nothing you couldnt bulid for 800$ which i think is reasonable now days.

[relapes]

Well, maybe it's not bland to you, but I've been playing WOW 5 years, from Vanilla to Lich King and I'm sick of it, the gameplay is the exact same as WOW's, without an auto attack. It does make a tiny difference but it does more bad than good (I have to always be on my toes, can't browse and relax at the same time as playing, etc).

 

And no, you don't need a pause combat button to have KOTOR's combat, what the hell are you talking about? The pause was mostly so you can assign commands to your entire squad. You just have 1 character here, companion is A.I.

 

Everyone ignore this man unless you want to laugh, he is just here to bash and rant, or to get attention. Another 11 year old spoiled child claiming to be an MMO vet, I can hear this brats high pitched voice as I read his posts.

[relapes]

It's not so much the low res textures for Swtor's as much as the young person cartoony style. It makes me miss WAR in that sense.

 

That is also what killed Rift for me after awhile was how uninspired the Art work was. GW2 is one of the only mmo's besides WAR that has a great aesthetic. WAR had years of Gamesworkshop lore to work with. GW2 is inspired by paintings. Stwors seems to be inspired by the clone wars a after school cartoon when I was in my early 20's?

 

I know that if you want the biggest numbers you may need to have childish graphics but.......that sucks.

 

I even resubbed to WOW for a free week 8 or so months ago and couldnt play the graphics are so bad.

 

Personally graphics really help with immersion and I'm a adult with a job so I can have a decent computer. Nothing you couldnt bulid for 800$ which i think is reasonable now days.

 

Why are you here? You seem to be here only to preach GW2, why not try GW2 forums? Answer the damn question.

[LordNyxus]

Actually, I believe most would be happy with Guild Wars 2 or Aion or even Rift level graphics. SW:TOR doesn't have as good graphics. Moreover, graphics isn't even a major complaint to most. It's the gameplay that's bland and generic that hurts the game the most.

 

And actually, a good way to revolutionize it would be to look BACK at the game's legacy instead of doing he same thing WOW and all the games like it did with a few additions/tweaks that have no real impact. What about some turn based system like KOTOR's? Personally I would enjoy that a lot more than the current system. It WORKS, sure, but it's the same I've been playing for 10 years, it's just boring now. At least it would be a nice alternative, more relaxed (fits MMO play a lot, players that play MMO like laid back gaming).

 

And keep the feats from KOTOR (actually, they are kinda like what WOW did with the new talents but a lot better if u ask me). There's so many things you can do instead of copying the talent trees from all other games and their cookiecutterness. It's just a waste.

 

Well, I would like the feat system, but since it is a trademark of Wizards of the Coast, the publishers of Dungeons and Dragons, then I would say that I do not think they would allow it.

'

SWTOR IS the same ol' same ol' in many ways. But instead of "Collect 20 Bee fairy *******" you get to collect things for a better reason...and voice acting!

[jarjarloves]

did it hurt wow? Not really wow killed EQ

 

now WoW didn't kill EQ at all. Seeing as the game is what 11 years old now? and has had around 12 or 15 expansions and STILL has a playerbase paying a montly fee.

 

 

Yeah EQ is not dead. not even dying really. I think any MMO would KILL to have the longevity that EQ has had.

 

 

but to the OP the truth is the majority doesn't want innovations they want a game they are used to that is fun.

[relapes]

Well, I would like the feat system, but since it is a trademark of Wizards of the Coast, the publishers of Dungeons and Dragons, then I would say that I do not think they would allow it.

'

SWTOR IS the same ol' same ol' in many ways. But instead of "Collect 20 Bee fairy *******" you get to collect things for a better reason...and voice acting!

 

Sadly thats not enough for most, thats why this game will flop in a few months most likely, sad story.

[Hanzohasashi]

Will just say this it being a similar game to WoW is not really a bad thing personally i think WoW has taken a turn for the worse in the later patches (had a chance to fix a beginning of cata but listen to whiners to much).

 

on that note you should take a look at RIFT a tone of the awsm things in rift (IMO) were taken right out of other games there class system is similar to Guild Wars with there own twist. there soul trees are just talent trees with there own twist there guild UI and stuff is just wow guild ui and stuff with there own twist and from what i hear there RIFTs UI custimazation is just Warhammer onlines with its own twist.

 

To some up my point copying something thats good (no matter how bad we think its going now) when it was good is not a stupid move give them time and they should branch out into there own things

[ScytheReaper]

Well, maybe it's not bland to you, but I've been playing WOW 5 years, from Vanilla to Lich King and I'm sick of it, the gameplay is the exact same as WOW's, without an auto attack. It does make a tiny difference but it does more bad than good (I have to always be on my toes, can't browse and relax at the same time as playing, etc).

 

And no, you don't need a pause combat button to have KOTOR's combat, what the hell are you talking about? The pause was mostly so you can assign commands to your entire squad. You just have 1 character here, companion is A.I.

 

Yeah that's what I'm saying. That pause is not possible here. Other then that the combat is the exact same. They just removed the pause.

 

Then you are sick of MMORPG's. As this is the core mechanic. Again its like saying "I've played call of duty for years and hate point and click shooting" Well virtually every game in the FPS genre has point and click shooting. It's literally what defines the genre.

 

Go try AoC. People never seem to try this. AoC is not an MMORPG. its an MMOAAG that promises and provides most of the things people bored of the genre want.

 

Some of us like being on our toes. I felt extremely bored when I could just serf the web and watch tv while i'm in combat. I don't want a different genre. I want an MMORPG. I don't play battlefield so that I can roll dice and see if i hit someone.

[Seifz]

If anything, I think the similarities will help SW:TOR. People like things that are familiar to them. SW:TOR adds enough to be its own thing, but borrows enough from WoW (and similar) to still feel like a good MMO. Lots of other "WoW killers" failed because they were too different.