JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) If you can't pop your Anti CC CD when they lay Hidden Strike on you, then you are just BAD. I have an Operative and a Marauder both at 50 and both over 30 Valor. I abuse Operatives with my marauder because I know how to use my Anti CC CD when I get knocked down. I usually end up beating the crud out of the poor op because I am CC immune after the knockdown and he stays in combat way too long. If you get caught with out your Anti CC spell then GG, and even then you still have escapes and med packs. The damage from Hidden Strike needed to be toned down a bit I agree. But the knockdown part shouldn't be touched. They should also adjust the Energy Regen for Op's because atm its fooked for long fights. If you get ANY heals while the Operative is on you.. Then you will be fine and that OP is screwed if his vanish isn't up. Stop whining about a class that REQUIRES stealth, has to be behind you and you have to have your ANTI CC spell down to get a kill off you. This is coming from someone who ONLY plays his marauder anymore due to Operative's being so stealth reliant and horrible sustained dps due to crap energy regen even with decent management. Keep in Mind: * Operatives have to be behind you to do decent damage to you. * Operatives rely on stealth and have the opener to do Hidden Strike which isn't a guaranteed crit. * Operatives are screwed if you trinket out of Hidden Strike. * Operatives have to Stim / Relic and most likely Berserk to get 6.5k+ crits. If you play it right.. You shouldn't be dying to an Operative as they have CRAP frontal damage and you have a full res bar after knockdown. COMPARATIVE DPS BETWEEN MARAUDER AND OPERATIVE: Marauder Rotation 1500-3000 damage Choke = 3 second channel (unbreakable with Rage) Relic = Instant 2000-3500 damage Force Crush = 1.5 Second (He is actually moving now but slowed) 3000-4500 damage Crush = 1.5 Second (Instant Crit in Rage Tree after Choke and Crush + damage bonus multiplier) 2000-3000 damage Force Shout = 1.5 second 500 - 1000 damage Battering Assault = 1.5 seconds 400-600 damage Retaliate = Instant off GCD (25% of it happening during this) 1500-2500 damage Vicious Slash = 1.5 seconds -------------------------------------------------------- 11900-18100 Damage in 10.5 seconds. (Add Berserker Rage to this for an additional 15% damage over all) Operative Rotation Relic = Instant 3250-6500 damage Hidden Strike 1.5 seconds (must be behind target and stealth) 1200-1500 Acid Blade Instant 1500-3000 damage Backstab 1.5 seconds (must be behind target) 1200-2200 damage Shiv 1.5 seconds 1500-3000 damage Lacerate 1.5 seconds 750-1500 damage Lacerate 1.5 second (50% chance so lets take it in half) 1200-1800 damage Corrosive Dart 1.5 seconds 800-1200 damage Grenade 1.5 seconds --------------------------------------------------------- 13200-20700 Damage in 10.5 seconds. As you can see OP has a bit higher in damage.. but has conditions to obtain it. While Marauder can obtain about equal dps but has to have a long CD up to obtain it. P.S. If you think that Operatives are the problem.. Please refer to link below: Edited January 22, 2012 by JonnyFreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) If you can't pop your Anti CC CD when they lay Hidden Strike on you, then you are just BAD. I have an Operative and a Marauder both at 50 and both over 30 Valor. I abuse Operatives with my marauder because I know how to use my Anti CC CD when I get knocked down. I usually end up beating the crud out of the poor op because I am CC immune after the knockdown and he stays in combat way too long. If you get caught with out your Anti CC spell then GG, and even then you still have escapes. The damage from Hidden Strike needed to be toned down a bit I agree. But the knockdown part shouldn't be touched. They should also adjust the Energy Regen for Op's because atm its fooked for long fights. If you get ANY heals while the Operative is on you.. Then you will be fine and that OP is screwed if his vanish isn't up. Stop whining about a class that REQUIRES stealth, has to be behind you and you have to have your ANTI CC spell down to get a kill off you. This is coming from someone who ONLY plays his marauder anymore due to Operative's being so stealth reliant and horrible sustained dps due to crap energy regen even with decent management. I like how every one of you seems to point at cc breaker as justification why op isnt op at all but have any of you considered that maybe just maybe there are other people with cc in that warzone and you might have used it already? With cooldown not being instant? Have you stopped for a second to consider that ? I dont think so. Edited January 22, 2012 by Xerkics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I like how every one of you seems to point at cc breaker and l2p but have you considered that maybe just maybe there are other people with cc in that warzone and you might have used it already? With cooldown not being instant? Have you stopped for a second to consider that ? I dont think so. So you are complaining about dying in a group situation where you get caught alone, they have to get a crit and they have to be in stealth and behind you to get the crit off? That is FOUR factors that have to line up PERFECTLY for them to do that to you. And you are complaining about it? What about range who **** you for 5-6k before you get to them because your gap closer is down? Maybe we need to nerf ranged too? OR when you sue the gap closer to get to them.. they just blow you off or back from where they are and **** you again for 5k? If you don't have anti cc up you are slowed even more to get to them. Maybe you need better team mates who will help you instead of run past you. That is like my marauder beating on you and no one helping you kill me. Sure I am going to ravage you with my 4k crush's every 5 seconds. Does that mean I am OP and need a nerf too? Or does it mean you just need a better team? If we are nerfing.. Lets talk about Ranged Knockbacks and Slows. Edited January 22, 2012 by JonnyFreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frags- Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So, in order to win, you need to have a long CD ability ready, and you need to have 0 ability delay to use it right away (lol). I see.. You are right, operatives are not over powered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortx Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Lol it doesnt matter, the people whining about Operative dont want true balance. They just want to be overpowered themselves, and not have to deal with ops. That's why they always use fake numbers, videos of lvl 50 with stacked buffs vs lvl 12, etc. Basically this is how it goes with MMOs or most pvp games nowadays: -Person plays PvP. -Person loses in PvP. -"WAA! IMBA IMBA IMBA!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastix Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 and both over 30 Valor i stopped reading right there... i d say you go and do more than your 20 warzones and we can talk again :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) So you are complaining about dying in a group situation where you get caught alone, they have to get a crit and they have to be in stealth and behind you to get the crit off? That is FOUR factors that have to line up PERFECTLY for them to do that to you. And you are complaining about it? What about range who **** you for 5-6k before you get to them because your gap closer is down? Maybe we need to nerf ranged too? Maybe you need better team mates who will help you instead of run past you. That is like my marauder beating on you and no one helping you kill me. Sure I am going to ravage you with my 4k crush's every 5 seconds. Does that mean I am OP and need a nerf too? Or does it mean you just need a better team? Im not saying anything of the kind. I dunno where you think i said that im just pointing out the fallacy of the first argument that every op/smug player seems to come up with. Which is : other players have cc breaker - ergo op isnt op. Very amusing. Edited January 22, 2012 by Xerkics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erseneos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) what the OP saying is true. If you have ur 2min CC CD ready, u have a good chance not dieing to an operative. What needs to happen is more tanks need to l2p. idk how many times I hear hidden strike sound, turn to a teammate whose now on his face, guard teammate than taunt the operative. The operative has no chance what so ever. To many people not wanting to play as a team and QQ Edited January 22, 2012 by Erseneos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) what the OP saying is true. If you have ur 2min CC CD ready, u have a good chance not dieing to an operative. What needs to happen is more tanks need to l2p. idk how many times I hear hidden strike sound, turn to a teammate whose now on his face, guard teammate than taunt the operative. The operative has no chance what so ever. To many people not wanting to play as a team and QQ The damage needed to be toned down.. that I agree with.. the knockdown how ever is fine. The 20% nerf is more than enough. I wouldn't even mind the 50% decrease in knock down if they only fill the Res bar half way and lets me use one of my other stuns after to get a BS in when its up. The problem with their nerf is it is not thought out. They are just nerfing because baddies are crying. What they need to do is: * Hidden Strike do 20% less damage. * Increased Regen for Operative Energy or give us a low damage spell to do increase regen. * Acid Blade Keep the dot effect as it is the only thing you have ticking while you are waiting for your abilities to come up as there is not enough filler abilities to always be doing something due to RNG in the Concealment tree. * Decrease the cost of Grenade and Shot Ability as it can be used as filler but terribly inefficient. * Stop listening to people who complain about getting owned in a group environment. If you are dying in group PVP... Then your team mates are terrible or you are off trying to play Rambo. Either way.. someone is failing at doing something and you deserve to die regardless. Edited January 22, 2012 by JonnyFreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sointu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 what the OP saying is true. If you have ur 2min CC CD ready, u have a good chance not dieing to an operative. What needs to happen is more tanks need to l2p. idk how many times I hear hidden strike sound, turn to a teammate whose now on his face, guard teammate than taunt the operative. The operative has no chance what so ever. To many people not wanting to play as a team and QQ Not sure if serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 All 3 things would have probably been fine without the stacking adrenal nerf. With it im not sure we need all 3. Id have kept the kd as it was and just nerfed the hidden strike and armour pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcyon Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 As a Level 40 Scoundrel I have to ask (even if I look stupid but I've been wondering): does the anti-CC ability work on the 3 second opener? Because I play a lot of PvP and NO ONE uses it, they just lay there for 3 seconds. Even if the match just started and it can't be on cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) As a Level 40 Scoundrel I have to ask (even if I look stupid but I've been wondering): does the anti-CC ability work on the 3 second opener? Because I play a lot of PvP and NO ONE uses it, they just lay there for 3 seconds. Even if the match just started and it can't be on cooldown. CC Breaker works on everything whether its slow kd stun etc etc. TThe problem is that because there is just SO MUCH cc on every person odds are people have already used it. And you dont see operatives till they hit you so how do you know you ll need it? With the match start it could be just shock. Psychological effect where the victim is flailing his arms ineffectually trying to press the right button. Happened to me few times. Edited January 22, 2012 by Xerkics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locksley Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you can't pop your Anti CC CD when they lay Hidden Strike on you, then you are just BAD. I have an Operative and a Marauder both at 50 and both over 30 Valor. I abuse Operatives with my marauder because I know how to use my Anti CC CD when I get knocked down. I usually end up beating the crud out of the poor op because I am CC immune after the knockdown and he stays in combat way too long. If you get caught with out your Anti CC spell then GG, and even then you still have escapes and med packs. The damage from Hidden Strike needed to be toned down a bit I agree. But the knockdown part shouldn't be touched. They should also adjust the Energy Regen for Op's because atm its fooked for long fights. If you get ANY heals while the Operative is on you.. Then you will be fine and that OP is screwed if his vanish isn't up. Stop whining about a class that REQUIRES stealth, has to be behind you and you have to have your ANTI CC spell down to get a kill off you. This is coming from someone who ONLY plays his marauder anymore due to Operative's being so stealth reliant and horrible sustained dps due to crap energy regen even with decent management. If you play it right.. You shouldn't be dying to an Operative as they have CRAP frontal damage and you have a full res bar after knockdown. I dont think it matters really as its being done plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I dont think it matters really as its being done plain and simple. Which is why I let both accounts run out. The dev's have showed they are too inept to make decisions to have a decent MMo. I am going to renew my CE Account because wht is 10% of what I actually paid for the game to see if they can improve. If they keep up the stupid decisions.. My Account will not renew next month. Edited January 22, 2012 by JonnyFreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 As a Level 40 Scoundrel I have to ask (even if I look stupid but I've been wondering): does the anti-CC ability work on the 3 second opener? Because I play a lot of PvP and NO ONE uses it, they just lay there for 3 seconds. Even if the match just started and it can't be on cooldown. Yes you can break the knock down. People are just to slow or stupdi to do so. People who click shouldn't be pvp'ing. I was a clicker till this game came out and I never pvp'd cause I sucked *** at it. I knew why, but that was the deal. I have since started key binding and it is the world of difference. I went from bad.. to bad ***.. The reason I got owned was because I was bad and I blamed everyone else for it. If you look at my old posts about my Marauder I called it terrible.. the truth is.. It was ME and my TEAM who was terrible. I was the problem. The same situation applies here. I have gotten a good team and improved my playstayle and I am now always doing 200k+ damage in every BG I am in. STOP NERFING BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TERRIBLE AND KNEEJERK REACTIONS ARE THROWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerkics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 200+ k isnt brilliant tbh , most people who seem to top charts these days have 350-400 or even more dmg. Mostly commandoes or sorcs but i guess thats due to aoe. And highest crits obv operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Op, you are bad at pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KilllerRock Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So you are complaining about dying in a group situation where you get caught alone, they have to get a crit and they have to be in stealth and behind you to get the crit off? That is FOUR factors that have to line up PERFECTLY for them to do that to you. And you are complaining about it? I bolded the ridiculous part of your statement. I agree with the stacking nerf, just reduce the hidden strike dmg a little and leave them with the 3 sec knockdown and even armor pen. But you exaggerate the difficulty of that situation as if the stars have to align for this to happen. They always start the fight in stealth, which means they can easily sneak up to the back of a person and they almost always crit. The only "hard" part is picking the best target, which really isn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribethx Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Don't worry. It will just be like this dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpappy Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Lol it doesnt matter, the people whining about Operative dont want true balance. They just want to be overpowered themselves, and not have to deal with ops. That's why they always use fake numbers, videos of lvl 50 with stacked buffs vs lvl 12, etc. Basically this is how it goes with MMOs or most pvp games nowadays: -Person plays PvP. -Person loses in PvP. -"WAA! IMBA IMBA IMBA!!!!" One player should not be able to destry a geared player before they even get up. Ops' are grossly overpowered...even more than Sorcs - which is "shocking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelvannia Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you can't pop your Anti CC CD when they lay Hidden Strike on you, then you are just BAD. I have an Operative and a Marauder both at 50 and both over 30 Valor. I abuse Operatives with my marauder because I know how to use my Anti CC CD when I get knocked down. I usually end up beating the crud out of the poor op because I am CC immune after the knockdown and he stays in combat way too long. If you get caught with out your Anti CC spell then GG, and even then you still have escapes and med packs. Yeah, because a 2 min cooldown can be depended upon to be up and ready whenever you decide to slaughter me. Nevermind that as a healer I'm the target for everyone's cc, nevermind that even if by some sort of miracle I have it ready when you jump on me then you just Vanish, wait for my resolve to fade (BUT HEY! I GET TO LIVE AND BE USEFUL FOR LIEK A FEW SECONDS - TOTALLY OP RIGHT?) and slaughter me without me being able to do any freaking thing at all about it (except perhaps put as much distance as I can between myself and the place when you jumped me - but how long can you run away, esp. if you can't see the thing you're running from?) I guess you'd be OK if your warzones looked pretty much like this: Bubble, get out, start healing, STUN! Break stun, run away, resume healing teammates, STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Warzone ends, 10 deaths, 0 kills, 3k healing done, 0 dmg done, 0 medals. And frankly, you saying how you can kill any operative with your marauder just shows how clueless you are. Any operative that jumps on a marauder instead of the healers or the squishy dps classes is an idiot anyway and can blame only himself. Try surviving the stunlock while wearing cloth armour and we can talk. Geez. You'll still be able to kill squishy classes, you just have to be a bit smarter about picking your targets. And if as a stealther class you can't even pick the battles you can win, and all you can do is just run at first person, press 1 2 3 4 and run at next target then you don't deserve any kills at all, and after this nerf you won't be getting them. Finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I bolded the ridiculous part of your statement. I agree with the stacking nerf, just reduce the hidden strike dmg a little and leave them with the 3 sec knockdown and even armor pen. But you exaggerate the difficulty of that situation as if the stars have to align for this to happen. They always start the fight in stealth, which means they can easily sneak up to the back of a person and they almost always crit. The only "hard" part is picking the best target, which really isn't that hard. I dont always get to start a fight from stealth in Battlegrounds due to the horrendously long wait time to get out of combat. So this isn't totally true. I start probably about 70% of my fights in stealth.. the rest of the time I am caught in the open with out stealth or vanish up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyFreedom Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Yeah, because a 2 min cooldown can be depended upon to be up and ready whenever you decide to slaughter me. Nevermind that as a healer I'm the target for everyone's cc, nevermind that even if by some sort of miracle I have it ready when you jump on me then you just Vanish, wait for my resolve to fade (BUT HEY! I GET TO LIVE AND BE USEFUL FOR LIEK A FEW SECONDS - TOTALLY OP RIGHT?) and slaughter me without me being able to do any freaking thing at all about it (except perhaps put as much distance as I can between myself and the place when you jumped me - but how long can you run away, esp. if you can't see the thing you're running from?) I guess you'd be OK if your warzones looked pretty much like this: Bubble, get out, start healing, STUN! Break stun, run away, resume healing teammates, STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Respawn at starting point, wait until you can get out, bubble, the moment you step off the ledge STUN HIT HIT die before stun ends Warzone ends, 10 deaths, 0 kills, 3k healing done, 0 dmg done, 0 medals. And frankly, you saying how you can kill any operative with your marauder just shows how clueless you are. Any operative that jumps on a marauder instead of the healers or the squishy dps classes is an idiot anyway and can blame only himself. Try surviving the stunlock while wearing cloth armour and we can talk. Geez. You'll still be able to kill squishy classes, you just have to be a bit smarter about picking your targets. And if as a stealther class you can't even pick the battles you can win, and all you can do is just run at first person, press 1 2 3 4 and run at next target then you don't deserve any kills at all, and after this nerf you won't be getting them. Finally. Sounds like you need a better set of team mates. If people aren't helping the healer.. then they are to blame. Plus a few seconds is about enough time to heal to full. You also have escape mechanisms other than one CC breaker. use them. If you think I am trying to defend the Operative because I play one you are wrong. I stopped playing mine due to its horrid sustained DPS in drawn out fights. I am making this arguement because I know both sides of the fence, which most of you do not. Edited January 22, 2012 by JonnyFreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebon_Pigeon Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 As a Level 40 Scoundrel I have to ask (even if I look stupid but I've been wondering): does the anti-CC ability work on the 3 second opener? Because I play a lot of PvP and NO ONE uses it, they just lay there for 3 seconds. Even if the match just started and it can't be on cooldown. What I've noticed in warzones is that once i press my cc breaker my character is still on the floor and it takes a few seconds for the animation to get my character standing up... It really should be, i press my cc breaker and I should magically be up, no matter the animation. This could also be the lag between pressing an ability and when it actually happens. I can't really be sure. Either way, I think it's wrong that they're trying to "fix" aspects of pvp when the foundations are still broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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