a question for some of you 'MMO All-Stars'

[jsdcaedus]

edit: sorry for those of you who want macros and are butt-hurt by the use of the word 'whining'. really wasn't try to offend or upset anyone. i just don't get it and wanted a response from someone who fully understands the concept

 

this question concerns macros. why do you keep whining for them and how can you possibly say they won't dumb down the difficulty of the game?

 

i've been enjoying video games for the better part of 3 decades, but this is my first MMO. from what i understand, you basically want to be able to execute all of your abilities in a pre-determined order with just a fraction of the keystrokes. this seems to be a hot-button issue for a lot of people, and i get that some people want a simplified or less thought-out game experience, and that is understandable to some degree i suppose. but what i absolutely cannot fathom is how you people can say that it won't make the game easier.

 

why bother having cooldowns if you never have to worry about them? if you can launch all attacks and abilities in one automated keystroke w/o ever having to think about CD's, then what is the point? in fact, why don't we just ask bioware to make the game like KOTOR, where you can pause combat and cue up 4 abilities at once?

 

if they get added, so be it. i suppose i'll use them. it's not a deal-breaker for me either way. i would just REALLY like one of these people who keep complaining for them to be added to please justify their reasoning for why it won't make the game much easier.

Edited January 21, 2012 by jsdcaedus

[PjPablo]

Might want to understand macros first before flaming people who ask for them.

[Buur]

Why would anyone answer your question if you can't simply do research first?

[Yfelsung]

You may want to do some research into what macros do, because judging from your original post you have no idea what the difference between macros, addons and bots are.

 

That is a massive issue with a lot of the anti-addon/anti-macro people, they don't seem to actually have any clue what a macro or addon actually does.

 

They invent these magical fairy addons that apparently play the game for you despite that these addons don't actually exist.

 

A long time ago, many games ago, there were some pretty nasty addons and macros, but those days have been gone for over half a decade.

 

So since we're talking about a game in 2012, could we maybe stick to valid information on modern addon and macro systems?

 

I know, I know, you'd rather cherry pick your arguments. I get it, you don't want to actually know what you're talking about and would rather set up straw men and knock them over repeatedly.

 

But if you'd like to discuss a subject, might I suggest you have some clue about it before you open your mouth?

Edited January 21, 2012 by Yfelsung

[aznthecapn]

why do you keep whining for them?

 

Not a strong start to a post that seems to want an open discussion on the benefits of macros.

 

I also recommend you learn what macros do before assuming they execute many keystrokes with one press. Macros in gaming are for convenience and, occasionally, make your life a little easier. They by no means play the game for you. There are often major restrictions placed on what a macro can do so that it DOESN'T play the game for you.

 

Do you research and act your age when you post. You'll get a friendly conversation and possibly learn something.

[Alphaeblue]

I would normally give you a very well thought out reply, but like the others say - have you even researched your question.

 

As a completely alternative answer from some you may receive, the reason why I want macros is to save my poor keyboard and mouse from overuse. For the type of setup I use, I don't want to have to replace these two hardware components because I have to overuse them. I should be able to just think what I want to do and my character reacts. But, they don't have a Stephen Hawking action queue built into games yet.

[Taelin]

this question concerns macros. why do you keep whining for them

 

I don't!

 

 

I've been playing MMO's since 2000, never once needed macros.

[TradewindNQ]

this question concerns macros. why do you keep whining for them and how can you possibly say they won't dumb down the difficulty of the game?

 

Let's explore that idea!

 

i've been enjoying video games for the better part of 3 decades, but this is my first MMO. from what i understand, you basically want to be able to execute all of your abilities in a pre-determined order with just a fraction of the keystrokes. this seems to be a hot-button issue for a lot of people, and i get that some people want a simplified or less thought-out game experience, and that is understandable to some degree i suppose. but what i absolutely cannot fathom is how you people can say that it won't make the game easier.

 

Incorrect! While it is possible to tie abilities all together into a macro and just 1-key your way home it is hardly optimal. Especially in a game where procs and proc management is essential. Doing what you're implying would end up being a DPS loss in almost every situation as a macro key cannot anticipate procs and other situations.

 

There is just a lot of "wasted buttons" on the hotbars. Even buffing can take up 3-4 buttons, being able to consolidate them into one using a simple macro is a quality of life concern. Being able to macro /unstealth /mountspeeder is a quality of life issue making up for a rather unintuitive error message, blocking you from mounting while stealthed...rather than just unstealthing you and mounting your speeder.

 

Macro's aren't a "1 button win!" thing, it's simply a quality of life improvement for some things. You can take it even further and create some rather complicated conditions, especially for healers. But it hardly makes the game easier, just more intuitive.

 

 

why bother having cooldowns if you never have to worry about them? if you can launch all attacks and abilities in one automated keystroke w/o ever having to think about CD's, then what is the point? in fact, why don't we just ask bioware to make the game like KOTOR, where you can pause combat and cue up 4 abilities at once?

 

Since most damage cooldowns either have varied time cooldowns themselves it doesn't make a lot of sense to macro them together. But when you're already operating with 8-10 skills in combination with 4-6 cooldowns, it again just becomes a quality of life issue. Personally it wouldn't make a difference, I'd keep them separate anyway since they affect different things.

[jsdcaedus]

never said i that i did fully understand macros. that's why i asked for opinions or an explanation. figured the macro wanting flamers would jump on this first.

[BadgeredMushroom]

this question concerns macros. why do you keep whining for them and how can you possibly say they won't dumb down the difficulty of the game?

 

It takes all the thought in the world for me to press 0 on my Naga to stun someone, then press CTRL + 0 to use my stun-only ability on them, right? That's some INTENSE THOUGHT required. It's two keystrokes. What's the difference between me hitting 0 twice instead of 0 and ctrl + 0?

 

The only time I've ever thought about my abilities was when I first read them and learned how they were meant to be used. Ever since then I've just been pushing buttons, which is a matter of muscle memory rather than thought.

 

i've been enjoying video games for the better part of 3 decades, but this is my first MMO. from what i understand, you basically want to be able to execute all of your abilities in a pre-determined order with just a fraction of the keystrokes.

 

Again, you assume it takes some kind of thought (or skill) to be able to press two buttons instead of one. It doesn't. The only thought (or skill) involved is learning to use the abilities. The less individual hotbuttons I have on my bars the more abilities I can fit on them without having to resort to CTRL and ALT binding.

 

this seems to be a hot-button issue for a lot of people, and i get that some people want a simplified or less thought-out game experience, and that is understandable to some degree i suppose. but what i absolutely cannot fathom is how you people can say that it won't make the game easier.

 

Sorry, my brain hurts from the INTENSE THOUGHT required to play my Guardian.

 

Game difficulty comes from content, not a crappy UI. I should be playing against the mobs, not the interface and the mobs. Streamlining my UI is not making the content any easier.

 

why bother having cooldowns if you never have to worry about them? if you can launch all attacks and abilities in one automated keystroke w/o ever having to think about CD's, then what is the point? in fact, why don't we just ask bioware to make the game like KOTOR, where you can pause combat and cue up 4 abilities at once?

 

You've never used macros, have you? I hadn't either until I played Rift. Most people make their macros use their cooldown ability first, then whatever spammable ability is best used in conjunction with the cooldown. Again, it saves space on a player's hotbar but still involves the same amount of keystrokes to actually use the abilities.

 

if they get added, so be it. i suppose i'll use them. it's not a deal-breaker for me either way. i would just REALLY like one of these people who keep complaining for them to be added to please justify their reasoning for why it won't make the game much easier.

 

I haven't been clamoring for them, but your post was so asinine that I just had to reply and set you straight. UI elements, macros included, don't make the game content any easier. A mob with 15000 HP will still have 15000 HP with or without macros or combat logs. All UI elements do is make the interface less of an impediment to actually do the content. You'd do well to learn this.

Edited January 21, 2012 by BadgeredMushroom

[Yfelsung]

never said i that i did fully understand macros. that's why i asked for opinions or an explanation. figured the macro wanting flamers would jump on this first.

 

So instead of looking into the subject before making a post about it, you decided just to spew ignorance?

 

That's like a dog who pees on the carpet after you open the door to let him outside.

[Buur]

never said i that i did fully understand macros. that's why i asked for opinions or an explanation. figured the macro wanting flamers would jump on this first.

 

Yes you did.

 

from what i understand, you basically want to be able to execute all of your abilities in a pre-determined order with just a fraction of the keystrokes.

 

That is saying you don't fully understand macros.

[Pink_Saber]

Incorrect! While it is possible to tie abilities all together into a macro and just 1-key your way home it is hardly optimal. Especially in a game where procs and proc management is essential. Doing what you're implying would end up being a DPS loss in almost every situation as a macro key cannot anticipate procs and other situations.

 

Probably worth mentioning (though not so much for the benefit of the uninformed, insulting OP), if a macro system were implemented, it should definitely work the way you describe. They don't all work that way, though I'd consider the ones that don't horribly broken (I'm looking at you here, Rift).

[aznthecapn]

never said i that i did fully understand macros. that's why i asked for opinions or an explanation. figured the macro wanting flamers would jump on this first.

 

You didn't need to. I recommend approaching subjects like this with a degree of humility and openness. As it stands, you're being offensive and close-minded. If you want to know - ask. Don't insult the people you're trying to ask because you ASSUME they are going to flame you for asking.

[Stevoli]

I don't think people understand what a macro is.

 

It would just give us the ability to put more than one skill in a button, it doesn't use them all, it just uses the one that's available.

 

Example:

 

use Bleed Dot

use Heavy Attack

use Light Attack

 

Those would be in one button. Hitting that button would use the bleed dot if it's available, and that's it. If the bleed isn't available, it would use the heavy attack and that's it. If neither are available, it uses the light attack.

 

It's not a "hack" or anything, it doesn't give a person "EZ mode", it just makes it so you don't have to have those extra buttons on your hotbar, giving you more space for other skills.

[DirtyDozen]

I hated macros in RIFT. That was too much. One Button Warriors.

[TradewindNQ]

I don't think people understand what a macro is.

 

It would just give us the ability to put more than one skill in a button, it doesn't use them all, it just uses the one that's available.

 

Example:

 

use Bleed Dot

use Heavy Attack

use Light Attack

 

Those would be in one button. Hitting that button would use the bleed dot if it's available, and that's it. If the bleed isn't available, it would use the heavy attack and that's it. If neither are available, it uses the light attack.

 

It's not a "hack" or anything, it doesn't give a person "EZ mode", it just makes it so you don't have to have those extra buttons on your hotbar, giving you more space for other skills.

 

I disagree, I support Macros but there should never be conditional casting. Same goes for "if ____ is on cooldown" or for anything such as "behind target"/"target has ____ debuff" etc.

Edited January 21, 2012 by TradewindNQ

[Pink_Saber]

I don't think people understand what a macro is.

 

It would just give us the ability to put more than one skill in a button, it doesn't use them all, it just uses the one that's available.

 

Example:

 

use Bleed Dot

use Heavy Attack

use Light Attack

 

Those would be in one button. Hitting that button would use the bleed dot if it's available, and that's it. If the bleed isn't available, it would use the heavy attack and that's it. If neither are available, it uses the light attack.

 

It's not a "hack" or anything, it doesn't give a person "EZ mode", it just makes it so you don't have to have those extra buttons on your hotbar, giving you more space for other skills.

 

 

I would hope not. This is exactly the sort of broken Rift-style implementation I was referring to earlier. It's really, in my opinion, something you never want your macro system to support, and fortunately very few games do. Rift's the only one I know of, and it horribly trivializes gameplay.

 

I'm all for macros, but not the kind that'll make decisions for you.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Pink_Saber

[Yfelsung]

Yes, conditional cast macros are bullcrap and do lead to one button DPS.

 

A simple macro system with target modifier casting is really all I want.

[DirtyDozen]

I disagree, I support Macros but there should never be conditional casting. Same goes for "if ____ is on cooldown" or for anything such as "behind target"/"target has ____ debuff" etc.

 

I'm with you.

[SwigMcJigger]

I'm just posting here to let the OP know that although he doesn't understand macros and he is still very opinionated on them that makes him a tool. A dull tool in the shed. Not even a tool because that would infer usefulness.

 

I know what's coming and I wish I could have gotten my point across better about how dumb you really are without being insulting, but just the way you talk down to everyone because you lack understanding about macros really grinds on me. Someone should slap your mother.

[Murasakikitsune]

I started using macros in WoW after my action bar started getting terribly cluttered. I discovered that with them I could separate my abilities into a grid. On my numbers, I had stealth/damage/stun/DoT/debuffs, and modifier buttons that separated them into combo-builders, finishers, and special attacks.

 

This allowed me a great deal of options as long as my mind was quick enough to jump to the right attack. No more wasting time clicking abilities on far-off action bars!

[Kabjat]

yeah, I'm gonna have to go with the others on this. I won't say anything rude to you like the other posters have, but from reading your post, it looks like you aren't quite sure what you are asking. You come off as a bit aggressive despite the smiley face and it will serve (and has served) to only irritate people.

 

I'm not well versed on the use of macros...in WOW I only had a couple of really simple ones I used all the time. In no way did those macros EVER play the game for me.

 

I would LOVE to be able to use those macros in THIS game.

[Kourage]

Flag it, don't feed it

[BadgeredMushroom]

I would hope not. This is exactly the sort of broken Rift-style implementation I was referring to earlier. It's really, in my opinion, something you never want your macro system to support, and fortunately very few games do. Rift's the only one I know of, and it horribly trivializes gameplay.

 

I'm all for macros, but not the kind that'll make decisions for you.

 

... are you serious? What difference does it make if I have to press 1, 2, 3 for my abilities or 1, 1, 1? I'm still pressing buttons the same amount of times. Once I understand how to play my character I can make my bindings as contrived or as simple as I want and it will do nothing to trivialize the content.

 

Difficult comes from game content, not the UI.

Edited January 21, 2012 by BadgeredMushroom