No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[ispanolfw]

No, not my way. The right way. Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. Play the right way and be fair to all. If an items drops that would upgrade their PC more than any of the other PCs, pass on it if they need it. That's good sportsmanship. Hence my statement, play the right way.

 

Being right or wrong when it's not an absolute fact makes it an opinion. IE 1+1 using our base 10 numbering system is 2. If I just said 1+1 is 2, that would be opinion, since 1+1 in binary is 10.

 

So, again, why do you get to decide?

[Democratus]

No, not my way. The right way.

 

Nice to hear you have a hot-line to the moral absolute. And here I thought it was only fanatics who claimed such.

 

Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team.

 

This much is right. I am part of the team. Me...the player. Not some bit of pixels. So if I - the player - feel that 'need' is the appropriate selection because an item will enhance my game play greatly...I select that button.

 

Play the right way and be fair to all.

 

As has been demonstrated time and again in this thread...this is the epitome of fair.

[ferroz]

Looks don't you take down that gold in that quest you're trying to complete. Better stats do. Make sense?

No ,that doesn't make any sense. That's not nearly as important as looking the way I want to look.

 

And actually, gearing Tharan does as much to help me take down golds as any drops I could get out of flashpoints...

Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[Setanian]

No, not my way. The right way. Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. Play the right way and be fair to all. If an items drops that would upgrade their PC more than any of the other PCs, pass on it if they need it. That's good sportsmanship. Hence my statement, play the right way.

 

That's wholly your opinion. It is certainly not the 'right' way. Where is that stated? Can you link me to that? No. because you pulled it out of your pants.

 

Your statement, is nothing more than your opinion and way of playing. I do not have to agree with it, not do you have any right to push it upon anyone else. You may certainly ask..

[Galbatorrix]

And if the item is an upgrade for him, why doesn't he have the right to roll on it?

 

 

 

Actually some of these things are grounds to have a person or even a whole guild banned from the game, because it's a violation of the TOS/EULA.

 

What? The enhancement mod gives them another 3 endurance over the other person getting pluses to every simple one of their stats? Be decent and pass on it. They need it more than you and you might actually feel good about it because you helped them obtain it. Helping others can be a good experience too. Some of you should try it some time.

[Jigsaw-Complex]

Under some cases, a Sentinel wearing orange smuggler gear is ok. But it is never, never, NEVER ok to wear under your maximum armor quality.

[Sousukesama]

I can't speak for everyone, but at the point when I don't need items to improve my play, I won't roll Need on them.

 

The point most of us are trying to make is that you should leave somoene's evaluation of what they need to them, and respect it. I'll point out again that my tank companion's armor is as critical to me as the personal armor of any Mercenary out there.

 

 

If you're rolling need on an item for your Tank Companion, then why did you invite a real player tank to your group?

 

In a different view point, you are rolling on gear for another person ( your companion ) the fact that you control the companion is meaningless. If you want gear for them, have them in your group and don't invite a player that fits that role as well.

 

The main reason people treat others with disrespect in online games is because the only consequence is having to worry about the other party bashing them in a virtual world. More times than not, it is much harder to be a jerk to someone face to face. Having a PC to hide behind gives a bonus to one's courage.

[Creed_Buhallin]

Being right or wrong when it's not an absolute fact makes it an opinion. IE 1+1 using our base 10 numbering system is 2. If I just said 1+1 is 2, that would be opinion, since 1+1 in binary is 10.

I'm wearing my "There are only 10 types of people in the world..." shirt today.

 

True story.

[Galbatorrix]

Yet, here you are deciding on what the 'right' way is.

 

 

 

So according to you, I can only need an item if it's more of an upgrade for me then someone else... The fact that it's an upgrade isn't good enough.

 

 

 

Well, you can need on anything you want. Just realize that it's not the decent thing to do. If you're ok with that, more power to you.

[Setanian]

Exactly!

 

I get to dictate that, for I am Zod.

 

 

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!!!!

 

 

 

.... Ok, so I'm giving up being serious in the thread now, since the argument / discussion / conference is basically "this is what we think," "you can't tell me what to do, this is what we think," "no, we just can do what we want in charge, and this is what we think." It's a back-and-forth that's just repeating itself. Go out, play the game, and you'll get what you deserve for playing how you play it. You screw people over, you'll get screwed over. You help people out, you'll get help. Not in every situation, mind you, but overall you'll get help or screwed as you do to others.

 

 

Edit: Except for this one.

 

 

 

You're right, nobody needs to ask before they hit it, just liek nobody needs to be warned that they're going to be booted. It's that "common courtesy" thing people talk about. Show a bit, and you'll get a bit. Show a lack of it, and you'll be shown a lack of it.

 

Where did you decide that it was 'common courtesy' ??

 

Here's the facts though you are not going to like them.

 

Everyone gets a roll on the loot. Common courtesy would dictate that you allow the others to decide for themselves, what way they roll, not the way you want them to.

[Galbatorrix]

Being right or wrong when it's not an absolute fact makes it an opinion. IE 1+1 using our base 10 numbering system is 2. If I just said 1+1 is 2, that would be opinion, since 1+1 in binary is 10.

 

So, again, why do you get to decide?

 

 

Did you guys even have parents growing up? If so, did they teach you right from wrong? At all? Anything?

[Zhothon]

These forms are going to be inherently less skewed and a better Representative of the player community then your server ever will be.

 

Your server is composed of a group of people who like to play a given way. Be it PvP, or RP or pure PvE.

 

The forms are going to be a much more random selection of people then any one server.

LOL. If you believe the posts on these forums most people hate the game and are quitting. My experience is much different in game of course.

 

Same goes with this whole loot thread. I have grouped with many different people and have had nearly no loot issues (except a little on the first flashpoint). Others share the same experience that there is an unspoken rule out there.

 

My observation has been that these forums are skewed and do not represent the actual player base. Perhaps forums bring out more trolls or haters. /shrug

 

Conclusion: Do not trust the forums for accurate count of how players feel.

[Creed_Buhallin]

In a different view point, you are rolling on gear for another person ( your companion ) the fact that you control the companion is meaningless. If you want gear for them, have them in your group and don't invite a player that fits that role as well.

My companion is not another person. They're an extension of my character. By this logic you should never be able to roll on an item that increases Presence, because it only boosts your other character.

 

Your companion is more than a pet, but at the core they're still a pet. I don't remember any other game where someone wouldn't be allowed to stake a claim to an item because it only improved their pet.

 

The fact that so many people have not yet adapted to the fact that in SWTOR, every character is a pet class does not make them right.

[ferroz]

No, not my way. The right way.

No, it's just your way, not the right way.

 

Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"?

 

A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. Play the right way and be fair to all.

So, don't dictate your playstyle to other people. Don't assume that your playstyle is the correct one. If you have rules you want others to follow, the onus is on you to state them. Don't feel entitled to gear just because it has better stats. Sounds like the right way to me.

[DrunkenGundark]

No, not my way. The right way. Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. Play the right way and be fair to all. If an items drops that would upgrade their PC more than any of the other PCs, pass on it if they need it. That's good sportsmanship. Hence my statement, play the right way.

 

Right.

 

Look, I understand that there are differing playstyles, that everyone gets something different out of this game. We all play this game for different reasons. We all want different things out of it.

 

I am NOT AVERSE TO THIS.

 

But let's be frank and let's be rational. When you are in a flashpoint or in an operation, your objective is to get to the end of the mission. Your objective is to kill what's in your path. Is that not the case?

 

Getting upgrades to your equipment that boost your stats HELPS WITH COMPLETING THAT OBJECTIVE. Does it not?

 

Now I'm a roleplayer, and I like playing dress-up with my characters, too. But getting a really nice set of Jedi robes for my trooper to wear is NOT going to help my team get to the end of that level any more efficiently. So while the loot system may say I can click Need on those fancy robes, me taking those robes does not contribute anything to the betterment of my group.

 

Now by some people's interpretation, I participated in killing this boss. I showed up, I fought, I deserve to roll. But if I roll and I win, and I take that equipment item, I possibly take it from the hands of that Jedi who could use it for something far more useful than just as a roleplaying aid. And since the immediate purpose of this flashpoint involves COMBAT, roleplaying aids are not helpful. Stat boosts ARE.

[Setanian]

What? The enhancement mod gives them another 3 endurance over the other person getting pluses to every simple one of their stats? Be decent and pass on it. They need it more than you and you might actually feel good about it because you helped them obtain it. Helping others can be a good experience too. Some of you should try it some time.

 

Conversely, you should try playing your own game and allowing others to play theirs how they see fit. If you weren't so worried about what other people did and didn't do, you might actually enjoy the game more.

[ispanolfw]

Did you guys even have parents growing up? If so, did they teach you right from wrong? At all? Anything?

 

If I had learned from my mother I would have learned that you should treat your children as slaves. I would have learned that you should both smoke in front of your kids and ruin their lungs. I'm not arguing what you think is decent, i'm arguing that you are trying to push opinions as fact. Beliefs as fact. They are not. And i've already told you how I play, and even THAT is contrary to normal game rules. But I also do understand that some will follow those rules and nothing further, and that there is nothing "wrong" about it since the game is designed that way. I know if someone wants a Marauder piece on an Ia for looks, or to make Vette look neat with the Warrior Mask Look, they see that as important to them and they are given the ability to roll for that. I don't let my personal opinions try to tell them they are wrong and cannot do that.

[VanorDM]

Social contract which allowed you to take need for "your" type of gear case to exist.

 

I have not seen or signed any such social contact. You may think it exists because it did in WoW, but we're not playing WoW. So any contact you had is null and void until a new one can be established.

 

This right here is the biggest problem. You have people who are trying to enforce their opinion on others, by a lack of discussing it ahead of time.

 

If I joined a party that had not discussed it ahead of time, why should I assume they are going to do it one way or the other? Just because they did it that way in a different game, one with a different type of loot system?

[Setanian]

Did you guys even have parents growing up? If so, did they teach you right from wrong? At all? Anything?

 

The irony of this is astounding. My parents thought me right from wrong and fairness. Yet, here you are telling me it is fair to dictate to others what they should or should not do when it comes time to roll on loot.

[Galbatorrix]

Right.

 

Look, I understand that there are differing playstyles, that everyone gets something different out of this game. We all play this game for different reasons. We all want different things out of it.

 

I am NOT AVERSE TO THIS.

 

But let's be frank and let's be rational. When you are in a flashpoint or in an operation, your objective is to get to the end of the mission. Your objective is to kill what's in your path. Is that not the case?

 

Getting upgrades to your equipment that boost your stats HELPS WITH COMPLETING THAT OBJECTIVE. Does it not?

 

Now I'm a roleplayer, and I like playing dress-up with my characters, too. But getting a really nice set of Jedi robes for my trooper to wear is NOT going to help my team get to the end of that level any more efficiently. So while the loot system may say I can click Need on those fancy robes, me taking those robes does not contribute anything to the betterment of my group.

 

Now by some people's interpretation, I participated in killing this boss. I showed up, I fought, I deserve to roll. But if I roll and I win, and I take that equipment item, I possibly take it from the hands of that Jedi who could use it for something far more useful than just as a roleplaying aid. And since the immediate purpose of this flashpoint involves COMBAT, roleplaying aids are not helpful. Stat boosts ARE.

 

 

Why was this directed at me? I've been arguing your exact point for what seems like 2000 pages now, haha.

 

 

I just realized you probably only meant the "right" part for me, so anyway, good post, I agree!

Edited January 27, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[ferroz]

But let's be frank and let's be rational. When you are in a flashpoint or in an operation, your objective is to get to the end of the mission. Your objective is to kill what's in your path. Is that not the case?

Nope. It's to enjoy myself by playing the game.

 

Getting upgrades to your equipment that boost your stats HELPS WITH COMPLETING THAT OBJECTIVE. Does it not?

No, it doesn't, not as much as getting a piece of visible loot that makes me look like I want to look like.

 

Now by some people's interpretation, I participated in killing this boss. I showed up, I fought, I deserve to roll. But if I roll and I win, and I take that equipment item, I possibly take it from the hands of that Jedi who could use it for something far more useful than just as a roleplaying aid.

False. You take it from the cold dead hands of whatever you're looting it from (or a chest, as may be). You NEVER take it from another player.

 

As soon as you start saying "taking it from player X" then it's clear that the issue is that you feel entitled to that loot.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[Sousukesama]

My companion is not another person. They're an extension of my character. By this logic you should never be able to roll on an item that increases Presence, because it only boosts your other character.

 

Your companion is more than a pet, but at the core they're still a pet. I don't remember any other game where someone wouldn't be allowed to stake a claim to an item because it only improved their pet.

 

The fact that so many people have not yet adapted to the fact that in SWTOR, every character is a pet class does not make them right.

 

It isn't about being allowed to need something you want or not. It is about being human and treating others with respect. I notice you left out the part in my quote regarding people having more courage to be disrespectful in the online world compared to face to face.

 

In the end though, this entire thread is nothing but opinions. Continue to need on items in PUGs that your base class cannot benefit from stat wise and in 6 months you let me know how many groups you are able to get into still with the same character as your rep becomes well known You reap what you sow

[ferroz]

Under some cases, a Sentinel wearing orange smuggler gear is ok. But it is never, never, NEVER ok to wear under your maximum armor quality.

No, if I'm not a tank it's not a big deal.

 

especially for something like a jedi guardian dps.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[VanorDM]

They need it more than you...

 

And if it is a even bigger upgrade for my companion, and therefor by extension and upgrade to me when I'm not in a FP. Then doesn't that mean I need it more then them?

 

I mean if your line is, it should go to who ever gets the biggest increase out of it... Then that's fine, but then you have to accept that an upgrade in equipment for my companion is an upgrade for me.

[Setanian]

It isn't about being allowed to need something you want or not. It is about being human and treating others with respect. I notice you left out the part in my quote regarding people having more courage to be disrespectful in the online world compared to face to face.

 

In the end though, this entire thread is nothing but opinions. Continue to need on items in PUGs that your base class cannot benefit from stat wise and in 6 months you let me know how many groups you are able to get into still with the same character as your rep becomes well known You reap what you sow

 

This is another of those veiled threats. if you don't so as we say, you'll be outcast. I have yet to see anyone outcast on an MMO for any reason.