Viera Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's probably more endurance/armor but he loses a good chunk of main stats for cunning, which does literally nothing for a Sith Warrior. Not only that, but what do you think he is going to keep doing if he isn't educated on what to do? He's just going to keep taking gear, gimping himself and griefing other players in the process. He can strip the mods out and replace them with mods appropriate for his class. If it is Medium Armor and he is a Marauder he has just as much claim for it, since he 'can' just replace the interior content to make it suit his class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descento Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you are able to pick up a gun and shoot someone in the head, then you must be allowed to do it, right? Apples to Oranges much ? Besides, in RL there are laws restricting you from shooting people in the head. In SWTOR there are no rules saying that you cant press need on something. Dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Apples to Oranges much ? Besides, in RL there are laws restricting you from shooting people in the head. In SWTOR there are no rules saying that you cant press need on something. Dismissed. Nope, no rules against being a giant douche. Go ahead and be one. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Those that thought this community would be different from other MMOs needs to read this thread. There are just as much children here as other games. It's not too hard to figure out what's right and what isn't but I guess that is lost on some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulstitchMMO Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is why when you need gear you run with your guild. When you don't need gear, you run with pugs. Otherwise you are gambling regardless. Bioware is ignorant of today's gamers. The last time your reputation mattered, was in Everquest. That's it. Nowadays you can still see all the content, you can still get all the loot you want, and it doesn't matter how you roll in pug groups, because there are so many players you won't ever see that person again or run in the same circles. This is why I always laugh at the intention to keep out the LFD because of "community". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keihryon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) lol. considering I am a healer and the only reason anyone gets a single piece of loot at all is because i keep everyone alive. funny statement bra. i enjoy exposing the immaturity in people, it shows how weak and pathetic they are. And considering they keep you alive by keeping the mobs off you is the only reason you get a chance to loot. Symbiotic relationship, groups are. The only immaturity you exposed, was your own. Edited January 21, 2012 by Keihryon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 To further expand on the terrible experience that grouping with ME is like ... 1- I am a healer. So when we group I heal you. 2- I do not care about green items that drop. I got enough of that junk while levelling up. My character is geared beyond it. My primary companion is geared beyond it. And my ancillary companions I just goof around with and will gear up beyond green items whenever I bother to get around to it. So if you group with me and a green drops and you need it? You'll never compete with me for it. 3- Blue Items don't really interest me at this point either. There's a 99% chance if you NEED a blue item that drops and we're in a group, we're not in competition. 4- Purple Items ... well there might be competition. But that depends on what the item is, what its mods are, and if I can actually use it. So there's really not many chances I'm even rolling on purples that drop. 5- Orange items drop ... well ... here's the thing, I have a look I like. I have a second suit of armor I like too. So I'm really just looking for mod upgrades. And those are rare too. 6- A lightsaber with AIM drops ... we're competing. So there you have it people. Group me. A confessed NINJA. And all you have to worry about is the occasional roll on a purple item, maybe a discussion about mods, and LIGHTSABERS WITH AIM ON THEM! Damn I'm a jerk aren't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And considering they keep you alive by keeping the mobs off you is the only reason you get a chance to loot. Symbiotic relationship, groups are. like I said anyone can roll on anything they want. now obviously if you are just doing it to be spiteful and it's not even for a companion then I would be like hmm ok. weirdness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's pretty easy to see this is a battle I will never win lol. Ya'll play the way you want, I will play the way I want. Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretalon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The thing is though, in just about all start ups of these type of game. You get the same sorts of people. Those that think of the game as a single player environment and even when in a group it is only a slightly better ai than running with companions (Their view) Therefore claiming a roll on items is only a roll against a computer opponent and there is no comeback. Then those who are in it just to trial the game for a period of time and cause as much trouble as they can, un subscribe and walk away. Then the idiots who will just get frustrated with the game because no one will play with them because of their previous actions. Mouth off at how bad the game is and how wow is better etc... Oh and do we think that they really care about this post or that we tell other in the group about how people should behave, do we really think they actually remember what they did the next time they log on? I doubt it, so why should we waste our time? I have jumped in on only a few groups but had no issue, only roll on what I needed and cancelled in other cases because completing the mission was more important for me. Would change I guess at higher levels? Give it time and it will settle down There is an answer for it. Join a guild PUG's are always problematic one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keihryon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Sorry, it's just the Gordon Gecko quote doesn't work for most people. At least Snoggymack has a point for his ninja of an aimsaber...i mean really? why would they even let that combo be created? Edited January 21, 2012 by Keihryon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmellowdude Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It is impossible to change people. /Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm amazed at the amount of selfishness in this thread, although I shouldn't be. And people wonder why I promote solo play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Simple fact. If I have a companion that uses equipment that I personally cannot then I can roll for that item. The simple fact is that the companion is a part of my characters combat potential. Likewise if mods from an item can be used in something me and my companion can use then again, I can roll. Don't like that? Don't team with me. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them. When I noted that the mods are Bound thread right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The best course is to agree the loot rules before the first pull. That way, if you are grouped with someone who believes that 'need' includes stuff they want for their companions, cosmetics or to vendor for credits, there will be no surprises later. You can choose to replace them, leave or live with it. Of course, people might lie. But that's probably a small subset of folks. Well, hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) To further expand on the terrible experience that grouping with ME is like ... 1- I am a healer. So when we group I heal you. 2- I do not care about green items that drop. I got enough of that junk while levelling up. My character is geared beyond it. My primary companion is geared beyond it. And my ancillary companions I just goof around with and will gear up beyond green items whenever I bother to get around to it. So if you group with me and a green drops and you need it? You'll never compete with me for it. 3- Blue Items don't really interest me at this point either. There's a 99% chance if you NEED a blue item that drops and we're in a group, we're not in competition. 4- Purple Items ... well there might be competition. But that depends on what the item is, what its mods are, and if I can actually use it. So there's really not many chances I'm even rolling on purples that drop. 5- Orange items drop ... well ... here's the thing, I have a look I like. I have a second suit of armor I like too. So I'm really just looking for mod upgrades. And those are rare too. 6- A lightsaber with AIM drops ... we're competing. So there you have it people. Group me. A confessed NINJA. And all you have to worry about is the occasional roll on a purple item, maybe a discussion about mods, and LIGHTSABERS WITH AIM ON THEM! Damn I'm a jerk aren't I? Yes you certainly are. And I would never group with you. However, you are too cowardly to post your server and toons, so many people will be victimised by you and your selfish, arrogant attitude, unfortunately. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. Edited January 21, 2012 by face_hindu formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viera Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) DOES ITEM = ORANGE? IF YES, PROCEED ON. IS ITEM MEDIUM? CAN WEAR MEDIUM? IF YES, PROCEED ON DO ORANGE ITEMS == COMPLETELY MODIABLE? YES STATS =/= RELEVANT Marauders use medium armor. Orange armor = completely customizable. Ergo, he can take the stupid mods that do not matter to him out and put mods that do work for him in. Suddenly the item has stats to work for him. Edited January 21, 2012 by Notannos rude quote +reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezroy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Apples to Oranges much ? Besides, in RL there are laws restricting you from shooting people in the head. In SWTOR there are no rules saying that you cant press need on something. Dismissed. Nope, apples to apples. The laws in real life against murder are not physical constraints of the universe. You CAN, at any time, pick up a gun and shoot someone in the head. The law against it certainly won't prevent it from happening; it merely describes the consequences you will face if you decide to do this. Law is merely a formalization of the social contract for some egregious scenarios. Outside the law, there are plenty of socially unacceptable human behaviors where the social contract is NOT formalized, yet we still consider violations of these unwritten protocols to be inappropriate or immoral. There is a giant difference between law and morality, in both directions. Need rolling on orange items to trade mods is "allowed", as in there are no physical laws of the universe (or, in this case, the game engine) that prevent it, in exactly the same way that murder is allowed too. Sure, there's no written social contract on the expected behaviors and repercussions in this scenario, but that's not unusual for social interaction in human society. What is under discussion here is the moral implication of doing so and the implied social contract of MMO games to which other gamers will hold your behavior accountable. There are tons of good reasons that the need rolling behavior described by the OP might be morally reasonable and acceptable within the MMO social contract, but "because I can" is NEVER a valid argument for deciding which behaviors are acceptable and which aren't. Not just here, but in general for all decisions of morality in life, because that argument tends to be true for almost all behaviors under the sun, barring violations of the actual laws of physics. If it's effectively always true, it is effectively always useless for formulating a stance on morality. Edited January 21, 2012 by nezroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorry, but no. I can see people getting up in arms about needing for alts, for companions, etc. If it's orange gear, and I can wear it, and it's fully moddable, and looks good, I am going to roll need if I like. If it's restricted to a specific class, I won't. I like wearing BH style armor on my sith , and that's my choice. A line needs to be drawn between fairness and entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdstephen Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Some people are jerks, others are stupid, most are both. Luckily I've never had this experience. By the time people reach 50 I think they realize that other classes need good gear too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) You obviously didn't read my post, so let me break it down before you start insulting me. DOES ITEM = ORANGE? IF YES, PROCEED ON. IS ITEM MEDIUM? CAN WEAR MEDIUM? IF YES, PROCEED ON DO ORANGE ITEMS == COMPLETELY MODIABLE? YES STATS =/= RELEVANT Marauders use medium armor. Orange armor = completely customizable. Ergo, he can take the stupid mods that do not matter to him out and put mods that do work for him in. Suddenly the item has stats to work for him. Is that so hard to understand? This would be very bad form indeed, and if it went against what was agreed on before the run, you would likely be booted instantly. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. Edited January 21, 2012 by face_hindu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viera Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Nope, apples to apples. The laws in real life against murder are not physical constraints of the universe. You CAN, at any time, pick up a gun and shoot someone in the head. The law against it certainly won't prevent it from happening; it merely describes the consequences you will face if you decide to do this. Law is merely a formalization of the social contract for some egregious scenarios. Outside the law, there are plenty of socially unacceptable human behaviors where the social contract is NOT formalized, yet we still consider violations of these unwritten protocols to be inappropriate or immoral. There is a giant difference between law and morality, in both directions. Need rolling on orange items to trade mods is "allowed", as in there are no physical laws of the universe (or, in this case, the game engine) that prevent it, in exactly the same way that murder is allowed too. Sure, there's no written social contract on the expected behaviors and repercussions in this scenario, but that's not unusual for social interaction in human society. What is under discussion here is the moral implication of doing so and the implied social contract of MMO games to which other gamers will hold your behavior accountable. There are tons of good reasons that the need rolling behavior described by the OP might be morally reasonable and acceptable within the MMO social contract, but "because I can" is NEVER a valid argument for deciding which behaviors are acceptable and which aren't. Not just here, but in general for all decisions of morality in life, because that argument tends to be true for almost all behaviors under the sun, barring violations of the actual laws of physics. If it's effectively always true, it is effectively always useless for formulating a stance on morality. Murder = against the rules by law Looting an orange item you can use =/= against the rules. That is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raelstrom Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ...if anyone in that class is with your group. I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game. But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing. Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket +34 Endurance +38 Cunning +18 Critical Rating when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them. When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed. Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result. One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them. Those who are polite, mature and have manners understand and agree with what you say. Those who do not agree are gonna do what they want and could careless what you think. You are not going to change the selfish, greedy ways with logic and reason. You can try and I commend you for the attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Murder = against the rules by law Looting an orange item you can use =/= against the rules. That is all that matters. What matters is the fact that you are in the minority of ninja looters. There is a thread with 15000 views on this subject. The majority of players are not jerks. If you want to be one, go ahead. You can group with your ninja friends and Need on everything. Cake is a lie; there is only pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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