No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[ThiborF]

Nothing said = standard loot rules.

 

And we're back to "whose standard" ?

 

Nothing said = the game's loot rules.

 

You want to say those who need for companions are against the norms?

 

Tell me ... how many major MMOs (say 100k+ populations) have existed where your companions play such a major role in your gaming? For every class.

 

You make it sound like it's been established since time immemorial that "Don't roll need for companions" is the "Loot Standard"

 

BS

 

And here's the kicker ... I don't roll need for companions. I honestly don't care when I group up if other people do or not. It really doesn't bother me.

What I hate is the ignorance that people show by simply believing their views are "right", "the standard" or "the majority" when so many counter-views exist. And how it takes only a few seconds to ask a simple question.

 

You're only half right in your statement. You're saying ask if the individual thinks their idea of fair loot is counter to the norms. I'm saying don't assume any norm exists and ask period regardless if you think you're in the majority, the right or the norm.

 

I guarantee if everyone did that the number of these threads would drastically diminish. But, I guess the idea of communicating with one another in a MMO is an alien concept to some people.

 

You're also right that people can just go on assuming without communicating and risk getting labeled. Just as there are those like me who think every single person posting a thread about someone rolling need for a companion in their group and nobody said anything about the loot rules priors got exactly what was coming to them.

[Eldren]

The healer meerly needs to reply "I don't heal ninja's" and the 90% out there who are respectful will understand.

 

Besides, I'd rather have a poor healer in my group than a ninja.

 

You're missing the point. I could say the same about accused ninjas: all they have to respond is "He's upset he lost a roll", and the 90% out there who are logical will understand.

 

Except that isn't accurate. See how easy to pull out statistics it is, without having actual data to back them up?

 

The point is this: the threat of ostracization from someone decrying another in the chat channels isn't nearly the deterrent that some think it is. It's merely the only position they can retreat to when they can't convince someone of their perspective's superiority. It's tantamount to tattling to the teacher in the hopes they'll automatically be told "you're right". They understand most players just won't care, and the few that will aren't likely to negatively impact a given player's ability to enjoy group content.

[Plaite]

No, Bioware allowed you all to be grown ups and be respectful, clearly that was a mistake with some people.

 

Clearly they spent to much time on consoles and became unfamiliar with the internets.

 

Oh and &%$^ you.

[RagnarokJC]

If you want it, go find it. I posted it the last time you asked.

Couldn't find it after doing a search. Post it again, please.

[Setanian]

The good thing is though that I don't seem to run into too many people like this in game. I really think this attitude is more of an eThug, forum mentality than anything else. If they actually acted like that in game it would be kick and ignore. Do it enough times and you get a rep. So I think it is pretty much all talk. It's the same couple of posters saying the same things over and over.

 

Think what you like. I can assure you if it's not class specified and I can use it, I press need. The other participants can press whatever they like and leave it to the dice. That's all we should expect.

[Qeuzolt]

The best we can do is tell them what stats they need, that you actually need the item, and that you'd appreciate it if they gave it to you, and came back in the future to run the instance again for the item.

 

The problem is all the moddable items are also BoP so you get one shot at it and when someone rolls on it "accidentally" or b/c they are just being loot whores then they get it they can't even say oh sorry here you go:mad:

[PjPablo]

You're missing the point. I could say the same about accused ninjas: all they have to respond is "He's upset he lost a roll", and the 90% out there who are logical will understand.

 

Except that isn't accurate. See how easy to pull out statistics it is, without having actual data to back them up?

 

The point is this: the threat of ostracization from someone decrying another in the chat channels isn't nearly the deterrent that some think it is. It's merely the only position they can retreat to when they can't convince someone of their perspective's superiority. It's tantamount to tattling to the teacher in the hopes they'll automatically be told "you're right". They understand most players just won't care, and the few that will aren't likely to negatively impact a given player's ability to enjoy group content.

 

That's where 'SS or didn't happen" comes into play. Screen shot in game convo and post for anyone who want to see it. Seen many, many times before in other MMOs. In WOW over the years on my server we have had people had to transfer (or name change, but that is another story) due to the rep they built up. So it can and does have an impact. That is once you have an established community. Jury is still out on how 'community' is going to develop at the server-level here.

[Meiu]

These Kids are used to WoW where you can only click need on stuff you can use. So these Kids keep spamming Need without looking at items because WoW tells them what they should use.

[Caille]

And we're back to "whose standard" ?

 

Nothing said = the game's loot rules.

 

You want to say those who need for companions are against the norms?

 

Tell me ... how many major MMOs (say 100k+ populations) have existed where your companions play such a major role in your gaming? For every class.

 

You make it sound like it's been established since time immemorial that "Don't roll need for companions" is the "Loot Standard"

 

BS

 

And here's the kicker ... I don't roll need for companions. I honestly don't care when I group up if other people do or not. It really doesn't bother me.

What I hate is the ignorance that people show by simply believing their views are "right", "the standard" or "the majority" when so many counter-views exist. And how it takes only a few seconds to ask a simple question.

 

You're only half right in your statement. You're saying ask if the individual thinks their idea of fair loot is counter to the norms. I'm saying don't assume any norm exists and ask period regardless if you think you're in the majority, the right or the norm.

 

I guarantee if everyone did that the number of these threads would drastically diminish. But, I guess the idea of communicating with one another in a MMO is an alien concept to some people.

 

You're also right that people can just go on assuming without communicating and risk getting labeled. Just as there are those like me who think every single person posting a thread about someone rolling need for a companion in their group and nobody said anything about the loot rules priors got exactly what was coming to them.

 

 

Could not agree more.

 

Type out the loot rules, communicate, talk on vent, whatever it takes, but by communicating with the group, this can be alleviated 100% of the time, barring misclicks of a genuine nature.

 

My keyboard has a loot rules macro on it, problem solved for me, as if it never existed.

 

 

Alexis

*smiles*

[Ansultares]

And I can stop DPSing that mob on you.

Should have rolled a healer if you want to threaten to take your ball home and expect people to care.

 

I wouldn't group with someone who consistently rolls need against his groupmates for his companions or his appearance, without first clearing it with them.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ansultares

[Setanian]

Couldn't find it after doing a search. Post it again, please.

 

Must look harder.

 

You asked for this information before. I posted it. I'm not lying. Now if you want it so bad, well you're just going to have to go and find it.

 

Aren't you a little old for the kiddie 'I'm reporting you' type thing?

[RagnarokJC]

Should have rolled a healer if you want to threaten to take your ball home and expect people to care.

Or a tank. DPS is a dime a dozen, especially in this game where every class has a DPS tree.

[Setanian]

That's where 'SS or didn't happen" comes into play. Screen shot in game convo and post for anyone who want to see it. Seen many, many times before in other MMOs. In WOW over the years on my server we have had people had to transfer (or name change, but that is another story) due to the rep they built up. So it can and does have an impact. That is once you have an established community. Jury is still out on how 'community' is going to develop at the server-level here.

 

I have played many many MMOs, and I have never, ever, heard of someone having to transfer because of rep.

 

In my experience, general chat is full all kinds of claims and counter claims and serious players, rarely have general chat on at all.

 

When I raided, the only channels I watched were guild related ones.

[Aleoi]

You're missing the point. I could say the same about accused ninjas: all they have to respond is "He's upset he lost a roll", and the 90% out there who are logical will understand.

 

Except that isn't accurate. See how easy to pull out statistics it is, without having actual data to back them up?

 

The point is this: the threat of ostracization from someone decrying another in the chat channels isn't nearly the deterrent that some think it is. It's merely the only position they can retreat to when they can't convince someone of their perspective's superiority. It's tantamount to tattling to the teacher in the hopes they'll automatically be told "you're right". They understand most players just won't care, and the few that will aren't likely to negatively impact a given player's ability to enjoy group content.

 

I didn't say anything about tattling myself. Just not going to heal them, doesn't have to be a public show. I don't care if anyone else knows.

 

I have no issues rolling against other players for gear. I have an issue rolling against companions for gear. My companions? I run a few lower level flashpoints, get oranges for them, and then make mods for the slots. They do very well in it. If I see something I could use for them and everyone rolls greed, I'll ask, I'm polite that way.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Aleoi

[Setanian]

Should have rolled a healer if you want to threaten to take your ball home and expect people to care.

 

I wouldn't group with someone who consistently rolls need against his groupmates for his companions or his appearance, without first clearing it with them.

 

'Clearing it with them? You have some neck if you think that I am going to in some way get your approval as to how I should roll when I get the choice.

[Grecanis]

You're missing the point. I could say the same about accused ninjas: all they have to respond is "He's upset he lost a roll", and the 90% out there who are logical will understand.

 

Except that isn't accurate. See how easy to pull out statistics it is, without having actual data to back them up?

 

The point is this: the threat of ostracization from someone decrying another in the chat channels isn't nearly the deterrent that some think it is. It's merely the only position they can retreat to when they can't convince someone of their perspective's superiority. It's tantamount to tattling to the teacher in the hopes they'll automatically be told "you're right". They understand most players just won't care, and the few that will aren't likely to negatively impact a given player's ability to enjoy group content.

 

What you're missing is that most folks who are logical are also respectful ...seeing as respect is logical.

 

Every segment of society has it's 10% who are ***hats ...and it's a good bet that most of them try to justify thier poor behavior by insisting that it's somehow acceptable.

 

I'm betting most would side with the healer.

[RagnarokJC]

Must look harder.

 

You asked for this information before. I posted it. I'm not lying. Now if you want it so bad, well you're just going to have to go and find it.

 

Aren't you a little old for the kiddie 'I'm reporting you' type thing?

I never said I was reporting you. I just wanted your proof that you can roll Need in groups without getting ostracized. Of course some conditions would apply:

 

- The groups couldn't be made up of guildmates and/or friends.

- The groups would have to have different players in them on each run.

- This would have to be done over a fairly long-term period of time (at least a week).

- You clearly roll Need on items that your character can use even if they were suited to other classes (eg: a BH rolling Need on medium or light armor, which they can use even though they're made to wear heavy).

 

So if your proof didn't meet these conditions (all of them), quit bothering to tell me to find it, because it's worthless.

 

What people like you don't seem to understand is that there are some rules that don't need to written to be followed. One of the most basic of these is the "golden rule" (re: don't do to others what you wouldn't want to have done to you). When people get into groups, they do so under some general conventions that are followed even if they're not spoken. One of them is that you don't steal stuff that others can put to better use. Generally, the only time these conventions have to be spelled out are when people like you come along and mess things up for everyone else.

[AlphaBraddox]

Im sure this was brought up but in all MMOs you will find people you regretted to run an instance with. They will do whatever they want and its up to you to remember to never go with them again.

[Ansultares]

'Clearing it with them? You have some neck if you think that I am going to in some way get your approval as to how I should roll when I get the choice.

You clearly don't give a **** if you lose the next 100 rolls because your groupmate needs for companion, huh.

 

Im sure this was brought up but in all MMOs you will find people you regretted to run an instance with. They will do whatever they want and its up to you to remember to never go with them again.

True; you'll come across more people you don't want to run with because they're bad than because they're selfish rollers. Edited January 26, 2012 by Ansultares

[PjPablo]

I have played many many MMOs, and I have never, ever, heard of someone having to transfer because of rep.

 

In my experience, general chat is full all kinds of claims and counter claims and serious players, rarely have general chat on at all.

 

When I raided, the only channels I watched were guild related ones.

 

And yet that doesn't make it any less true.

 

Server forums are where most of the conversations on the type of activity you claim to partake in took place. I guess good for some here we don't have server forums where this could be aired.

[RagnarokJC]

And yet that doesn't make it any less true.

 

Server forums are where most of the conversations on the type of activity you claim to partake in took place. I guess good for some here we don't have server forums where this could be aired.

Server forums aren't always necessary, as names will be remembered if repeated often enough in general chat.

[Setanian]

 

What people like you don't seem to understand is that there are some rules that don't need to written to be followed. One of the most basic of these is the "golden rule" (re: don't do to others what you wouldn't want to have done to you). When people get into groups, they do so under some general conventions that are followed even if they're not spoken. One of them is that you don't steal stuff that others can put to better use. Generally, the only time these conventions have to be spelled out are when people like you come along and mess things up for everyone else.

 

Please don't tell me what I do and do not understand.

 

I know all about the 'golden rule'. Chances I learned all about life and matureness in a war before you were even born. Ignore if you were before 1973.

 

Now as for your golden rule.. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

Simply put, if you get a chance to roll the dice, I am not going to try to sway your choice, as I do not expect you to try to sway mine.

[Setanian]

You clearly don't give a **** if you lose the next 100 rolls because your groupmate needs for companion, huh.

 

True; you'll come across more people you don't want to run with because they're bad than because they're selfish rollers.

 

I believe in fairness. If you get a chance to roll, you roll however you wish. If I get a chance to roll, I roll however I wish.

 

You obviously don't give a **** if I lose out once you get some loot, huh ?

[VanorDM]

One of them is that you don't steal stuff that others can put to better use.

 

This is no where nearly the universe truth you and others like you seem to think.

 

Many people playing this game either are new to MMO's or at least new to ones with loot rules like this. So do not expect people to be aware of your "rule that everyone knows".

 

Plus when we're dealing with situations like mods, orange items, or companions, there's plenty of gray area on who can best use that item. So even then your 'unwritten rule' may very well not be the one everyone else follows even if they did know what it is.

 

Also it's hardly stealing, it's not like I didn't help kill what ever it is that gave us that item.

 

Based on your logic, the only person who should be allowed to roll need on an item is the person who gets the most upgrade out of it. If it gives me a 5% increase and you a 7.5% increase, I have no right to roll need, because you can put it to better use.

 

Once again, people need to stop assuming that other people are aware of, or agree with these "unwritten rules" of loot, because they may not of encountered them before. Or even if they did they may very well no longer apply in all situations.

[RagnarokJC]

Please don't tell me what I do and do not understand.

 

I know all about the 'golden rule'. Chances I learned all about life and matureness in a war before you were even born. Ignore if you were before 1973.

 

Now as for your golden rule.. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

Simply put, if you get a chance to roll the dice, I am not going to try to sway your choice, as I do not expect you to try to sway mine.

I'll tell you whatever I like, especially when the proof is entirely in the expressed opinions you've put into this thread. You clearly have no idea about *maturity* (I don't know what you mean by "matureness" which isn't a word), based on the sentiments you've expressed.

 

I'll explain it another way: you can do whatever you like, but if you don't consider the consequences of your actions, then you'll soon find that the general community in the game will not be agreeing to do anything with you over the long term.