No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[sjmc]

This game is a MMO and is social. Like it or not, there are social rules in the game. Not hard coded rules, but social rules.

Examples:

A) Loot (Need for self only).

B) Dont loot a container or resources that someone else is killing mobs to get to.

C) Don't talk about spoilers in general chat.

 

I think most people would agree to all three of these rules. The disagreement seems to be around the definition of "self". Is your companion(s) part of your character?

 

Apparently according to the social convention from other games (particularly WoW), companions were not considered to be part of your character and were not allowed to get geared from loot?

 

I cannot succeed in quests without good gear on my companion because I can't heal her faster than she takes damage. Increased Aim on my companion makes her dps go up as well. Endurance is also quite important. However, some people apparently don't find companions to be useful or find it necessary to gear them up.

 

There are times when I will adventure without my companion, such as when I go on flashpoints where there is a full group of 4. However, I spend most of my adventuring day with my companion, and an upgrade to her is an upgrade to my overall "character".

 

In any case, I'm generally not going to roll need for companions without prior discussion because there are too many selfish people who are looking for an excuse for loot drama and/or to kick people from their group. Loot just isn't important enough to spend an hour arguing over it.

[Setanian]

 

They would understand the true motivation behind not stealing someones upgrade. Face it the reason that you don't steal someone else's upgrade is completely selfish. It is so that you will not have it done yourself when you see an upgrade come your way. Also you know that it will ruin your reputation if you go around stealing other peoples upgrades.

 

 

If the items is not a listed class item, can you please explain your use of 'stealing' in that paragraph. Because someone asking me demanding that I forgo my entitlement to roll sounds like stealing to me.

[Souvarr]

I'm going to ask a simple question.

 

Let say I'm a Jedi Knight tanking (I'm not, i"m a Shadow Jedi that haven't seen a drop in the last two flashpoint and last 10 Heroic, beside the point). In my party is a Trooper.

An orange Assault cannon drop, and the Troop mouth is watering from it. When I look at the mods. I notice the crystal will give me a +5 Endurance and the Enhancement give me a +7 Endurance. Do I have the right to need it, since it a mark increase inspite most of it I don't want or can use?

[RagnarokJC]

It's funny how many people in this forum have talked about rolling Need on anything, while in-game it hardly ever happens.

 

Again, my challenge to those loudmouths stands: post your character name and server so that we can observe you putting your money where your mouth is. Once we see you get blacklisted and find it all but impossible to get into groups for runs, maybe then you'll learn about the concept of *consequences*.

[RazielHex]

Who care's about parameters? If I can put it on, it's mine. Who care's about stats? Who are you to tell me my Guardian can't wear light armor?

 

It's not about the type of armor. People were complaining that the stats decided who it was for. The reality of it is the armor-type defines who it is for.

 

Hey, if you want to wear light armor as a guardian, more power to you. It means it takes me 66% less time to take you out in Voidstar.

Edited January 26, 2012 by RazielHex

[Setanian]

I'm going to ask a simple question.

 

Let say I'm a Jedi Knight tanking (I'm not, i"m a Shadow Jedi that haven't seen a drop in the last two flashpoint and last 10 Heroic, beside the point). In my party is a Trooper.

An orange Assault cannon drop, and the Troop mouth is watering from it. When I look at the mods. I notice the crystal will give me a +5 Endurance and the Enhancement give me a +7 Endurance. Do I have the right to need it, since it a mark increase inspite most of it I don't want or can use?

 

If you can use it, you can need it. Anything else is someone attempting to deny your entitlement.

[RazielHex]

If you can use it, you can need it. Anything else is someone attempting to deny your entitlement.

 

He wouldn't be able to need the cannon anyway.

[Setanian]

It's funny how many people in this forum have talked about rolling Need on anything, while in-game it hardly ever happens.

 

Again, my challenge to those loudmouths stands: post your character name and server so that we can observe you putting your money where your mouth is. Once we see you get blacklisted and find it all but impossible to get into groups for runs, maybe then you'll learn about the concept of *consequences*.

 

Already done. Have you anything else you like? My shoe size?

[Eldren]

I'm going to ask a simple question.

 

Let say I'm a Jedi Knight tanking (I'm not, i"m a Shadow Jedi that haven't seen a drop in the last two flashpoint and last 10 Heroic, beside the point). In my party is a Trooper.

An orange Assault cannon drop, and the Troop mouth is watering from it. When I look at the mods. I notice the crystal will give me a +5 Endurance and the Enhancement give me a +7 Endurance. Do I have the right to need it, since it a mark increase inspite most of it I don't want or can use?

 

You have the right to roll Need on anything the system will let you choose that option for (which is currently everything). The argument many make here is whether you should. While this discussion has migrated into another companion-need-roll argument, the original issue was over mods in an item.

 

If there's a mod in an item that's otherwise useless to you, then in theory, yes, you'd be within the spirit of the NBG system in rolling Need on it, since that singular mod qualifies as an upgrade for you.

[RagnarokJC]

Already done. Have you anything else you like? My shoe size?

Post me the link, please.

[Tygranir]

It's funny how many people in this forum have talked about rolling Need on anything, while in-game it hardly ever happens.

 

Again, my challenge to those loudmouths stands: post your character name and server so that we can observe you putting your money where your mouth is. Once we see you get blacklisted and find it all but impossible to get into groups for runs, maybe then you'll learn about the concept of *consequences*.

 

/agree

 

Tell me who your Character is and on which server, so I may increase the size of my ignore list.

[Setanian]

He wouldn't be able to need the cannon anyway.

 

Notice the 'if you can you it' bit Use it being use it for anything.

[Souvarr]

I think most people would agree to all three of these rules. The disagreement seems to be around the definition of "self". Is your companion(s) part of your character?

 

Apparently according to the social convention from other games (particularly WoW), companions were not considered to be part of your character and were not allowed to get geared from loot?

 

.

 

What WoW were you playing. There were no compain in WoW. There were pet, but they never got gear. If they did, I would have been needing them, since I played a Hunter. Beast, Zombies, and Demon never got gear and if they did they would have been needed since they supply DPS and tanking for Hunters, Death Knights, and Warlocks.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Selfish people exist IRL and in online games. The OP posting on this forum will not change that. Either BW solves this by making "need" class specific or players will have to deal with the fact that, like IRL, rational behavior does not always prevail and jerks sometimes win.

 

I would be satisfied if BW added GlobalFriends and GlobalIgnore. So i can tell if someone is a winner or a whiner regardless of which character they happen to be on at the time.

[Setanian]

Post me the link, please.

 

If you want it, go find it. I posted it the last time you asked.

[chton]

Our perspective is more valid because Bioware FORCE FED these people what their proper stats were through out their entire play time. They know, as a Jedi Knight, that STR is their main stat. If they're rolling on Cunning items when a Smuggler is in the group, they're douche bags. Plain and simple. You can argue for these douche bags all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a douche move.

 

I think the arguments in this thread for your side are absolutely ridiculous. According to you, a person needing on an item that's not intended for their class is completely fine as long as it will benefit their character in some way. Well genius, every item can be sold and credits = better everything for my character. So, according to you, everyone should just roll need on everything that drops. Of course, this would completely destroy people's sole purpose for being in the flashpoint in the first place and will likely either shy them away from them in the future or in the very least, never group with you again. But, who cares about other people? Who cares about the community working together in hopes that people are decent to one another? As long as I gotz MINE, who cares about that other guy in the group? Heck, you may never see him again. Or then again, he may be group leader for that Heroic quest that you've been shouting about in gen chat for the last 10 minutes who refuses to let you join in the fun...

 

 

Also, if you're walking down the street and someone collapses on the side walk, just keep right on walking. I mean, you just picked up lunch and how dare that guy be selfish and entitled thinking you should let your lunch grow cold to help him out. Heck, you'll probably never see that guy again.

 

See for all the whiney drama in here, this is exactly how I feel. I'll likely never see you again, and definitely won't need anything from you so why do I care? OMG I'm gonna get black listed, LOL well worth the minor risk, OMG I won't get in that heroic a tool is leading, so what? Unlike alot of people here I can form my own groups as well. What makes you think in a game that has 4 player groups and oh 8 or 16 man raids I ever need to PUG? Besides what with all the whining cross server grouping will occur and then it's ez peasy to need all I like.

Seriously, why do you people think you are needed? Useful tools certainly but only to a point. Chances of ever needing anything, other than that item you so desperately wanted are close to nil.

[Setanian]

/agree

 

Tell me who your Character is and on which server, so I may increase the size of my ignore list.

 

Oh my God! You people are going to take everyone name now and what? Show it to your teacher?

[Jedi_Wannabe]

What WoW were you playing. There were no compain in WoW. There were pet, but they never got gear. If they did, I would have been needing them, since I played a Hunter. Beast, Zombies, and Demon never got gear and if they did they would have been needed since they supply DPS and tanking for Hunters, Death Knights, and Warlocks.

 

And in WoW your pet would have been a contributor to the group, even in a Raid.

 

You're alts and off-spec were not contributing to the group at the time, and it was frowned upon by a majority of players to roll Need for alts and off-specs without mentioning it at the beginning of the run.

 

In SWTOR your companion helps you solo and do dailies, but doesn't help in full group runs. In WoW your DPS gear might have helped you solo and do dailies, but if you were in the group as a tank or healer, it was frowned upon to roll Need for DPS gear.

[originaltodzilla]

This is what I find most amusing about MMOs!! In most cases (complete strangers) "adventuring together" assuming everyone is going to have same "moral code" as you.

 

Think about it, if this was in person, most people wouldn't even talk to stranger let alone go on a walk with them. And out and about on your walk you guys both see something on the ground. It's a women's gold watch. One guy says "well I have a new girlfriend and she would really like this, I want it". The other guy says "I can't pay my rent, I could sell it!"

 

Who's right? It's a social issue. 9 times out of ten when I'm playing with people I don't know, I usually just pass on stuff, unless its something I REALLY find amazing (for my class: trooper). Now that's not to say I haven't clicked "need" on a lightsaber for a fellow guild member. And why not? I care more about my guild member then these guys I don't even know. But I do understand socially that is kind of a crummy move if there is a jedi in the group and could use it. So to be entirely honest, I'm usually a "pass" guy, unless it's totally the worlds best commando gear that I need (then I pick need). If it's something for a buddy I pick greed.

 

So long story short is I don't think anyone should be locked out of any loot. Its a social game, be a little more cautious or be a little more upfront of what's expected in a group. If a person is obviously picking need for everything don't ever group with them again.

[Galbatorrix]

Decency goes both ways.. You get roll, I get a roll. If I win, I win, if you win, you win. Decency does not mention anything about that I give up my roll because you feel you are more entitled to something.

 

If the item states it's specifically for your class, fine, I'll pass it to you. Other than that, I'll roll which ever suits me best. I expect nothing less from you.

 

The problem is; You expect more from me.

 

 

Well, answer me this. Is the "Marauder's Vest" meant for the Marauder? Or does the Agent have an equal right to that chest piece because it's medium. This is what the whole argument boils down to. Either you believe it only fair to pass the Marauder the Marauder's Vest or you don't. Most loot is named similarly. Bioware literally tried to force feed the community proper loot priority and yet people still try to use backward logic to justify their petty actions.

 

These games are very gear driven. You want your character to look nice, sure, but you also realize more stats = easier time while soloing. If someone asks me to join a pug while I'm on fleet, I don't do it just so I can see that content for the 5th time... I do it so I can maybe win something cool for my chosen class. Having some selfish, entitled person rolling need on an item that they won't benefit from wastes my time and takes away the sole purpose for me to be there helping out in the first place. If something drops for your class, I'll pass. I expect the same courtesy.

 

But again, go need on whatever you want. Just don't take offense when someone starts blasting you in the general chat or you get random people telling you "no thanks" when you ask if you can join their PUG. Trust me, no one likes ninjas and regardless of what you think, most people agree that what you're doing is just that. Any MMO vet can confirm that.

[Setanian]

And in WoW your pet would have been a contributor to the group, even in a Raid.

 

You're alts and off-spec were not contributing to the group at the time, and it was frowned upon by a majority of players to roll Need for alts and off-specs without mentioning it at the beginning of the run.

 

In SWTOR your companion helps you solo and do dailies, but doesn't help in full group runs. In WoW your DPS gear might have helped you solo and do dailies, but if you were in the group as a tank or healer, it was frowned upon to roll Need for DPS gear.

 

This is not wow. Wow rules, perceived or made up, do not apply here.

[RazielHex]

Notice the 'if you can you it' bit Use it being use it for anything.

 

I was just pointing out it was a bad analogy.

[Aleoi]

Hey, people are right, they can roll on whatever they want. And I can stop healing them when they do that. Bioware put in the option for me to do so after all.

[Souvarr]

He wouldn't be able to need the cannon anyway.

 

It was a hypothetical question just asking on the most extreme case where a drop in it own right is totally unusable, just the mod. If you wish then a leather flight jacket with Cunning or a Lightsaber with Will.

 

I already have my opine and that is there no problem with it.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Oh my God! You people are going to take everyone name now and what? Show it to your teacher?

 

He was kidding. He would never expect you to tell him, even in a private message, who your characters are. Why would you volunteer such information. Better to be a ninja in game and let people find out after it's too late, right?