No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[snowmon]

thing i find amusing is thou that when it comes to FPs they dont do anything to stop ninja looters, but then in OPs they **** over guilds to try and stop ninjas and add autoassign.....GJ :/

[Calsetes]

where's the AIM-Saber love gone....

 

I was smiling while reading back in the early pages how someone was calling someone else a bad person when they admitted they would roll need on an AIM-Saber.....

 

People should consider stuff before posting.... i think we should have a new thread just for AIM-Saber's to discussed, that was funny

 

I too would roll need on an aim-saber..... i'm Merc but I don't use aim, hmmm, wonder which saber user needs it .... hehhe

 

Was it a light saber, or a vibroblade? I know Qyzen uses aim for a stat, and he uses electrostaves and I want to say he can also equip vibroblades, so that could be used for him.

[AsheraII]

It's really more nuanced tha "you can't use it, so you can't roll". ESPECIALLY with orange gear. That orange chestpiece with all those +cunning mods?

I can definitely see a Sith Marauder taking those mods out and putting them into Vette's orange blaster or whatever piece of orange gear he assigned to her, while remodding the piece itself with strength mods for personal use, because it's finally a nice chestpiece that doesn't have insane shoulderpads, or because it simply matches his pants better.

 

Yes, I'd be pretty annoyed too if I lost that roll as an Agent, but at the same time, I do see that the Sith Marauder has as much right on that piece as I do. And really, it's only gear! There are plenty ways to get comparable or even better alternatives for that exact same piece. If you want that specific piece, then just keep grinding the FP. It'll drop again. Eventually.

[Evilpuppy]

why do we need big brother to come in and tell us what we can and cant roll on. If someone is a ninja looter add them to ignore, tell your friends, guild, report them to their own guild leader, post their name and action on the forms, then let the community sort it out.

 

Why does Bio ware need to act like Mommy and Daddy and tell the kids to play nice. If the community has any standards then this player wont find themself in a guild or groups. If this person admitted to doing such action or there were enough party members coming forward about the members action. As your guild leader I would kick your *** out of my guild with out hesitation.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Evilpuppy

[Xabana]

where's the AIM-Saber love gone....

 

I was smiling while reading back in the early pages how someone was calling someone else a bad person when they admitted they would roll need on an AIM-Saber.....

 

People should consider stuff before posting.... i think we should have a new thread just for AIM-Saber's to discussed, that was funny

 

I too would roll need on an aim-saber..... i'm Merc but I don't use aim, hmmm, wonder which saber user needs it .... hehhe

 

You're running around with your dress over your head. We all see you.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Xabana

[LogicalPremise]

Yes, I'd be pretty annoyed too if I lost that roll as an Agent, but at the same time, I do see that the Sith Marauder has as much right on that piece as I do. And really, it's only gear! There are plenty ways to get comparable or even better alternatives for that exact same piece. If you want that specific piece, then just keep grinding the FP. It'll drop again. Eventually.[/color]

 

Um, couldn't the very same logic be applied to the Mara? More to the point, since the IA can use it as it, and the Mara would basically be obtaining marginal utility from it, why is it that the class who can actually USE it as designed has to grind for it?

 

Additionally: some companions really don't get much marginal benefit from pimping them out in gears. Vette does only if you're a Jugg, a DPS mara really gets zero benefit from Vette as all she does is die due to the Mara having no tanking tools. I've been researching this and it's interesting, some companions (particularly tanks for healers and healers for tanks) NEED purple gear or modded oranges, most of the DPS and ranged tanks don't get much benefit at all.

[Shikiru]

...if anyone in that class is with your group.

 

I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game.

But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

 

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this

Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket

+34 Endurance

+38 Cunning

+18 Critical Rating

 

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

 

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

 

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

 

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.

Well i have to admit as a marauder who got totally boned with appearance i would love to have that jacket. Just take out the mods and throw them out of the window and put warrior mods in

 

 

 

 

 

 

I meant if no agent is present.

[Calsetes]

I said it yesterday, I'll say it today - I don't think classes should be completely blocked off from the Need button because it "isn't their item." That said, there was a good suggestion yesterday about having a class that can use the item, as it has a primary stat for them, getting a bonus to their Need roll to sort of "balance it out" should a Consular and a Knight both hit Need on a Willpower robe. Obviously the Consular should "need" it more, so he's more likely to win it.

 

This way, you can easily see who's hitting Need on everything without it being a big problem, and you can have people who aren't the classes needed able to hit Need and have a shot at winning it after the ones that can use it, and everyone's (mostly) happy.

 

No matter what though, you will always inevitably get those people who try to screw the system - Consulars that will roll Need on every Consular equipment, etc. Those, we just have to deal with on a person-by-person basis. Confront them, but be courteous about it. Don't put them to the stake for a first-time offense, but sure as hell burn them if they do it consistently.

[Kinrain]

Very simply, if i'm in a group and someone needs on an item that obviously of no use to them when its an upgrade for another player they would be asked to explain themselves. If they have a good reason (Aimsaber for instance) then fine. In future they'll be asked to let us know before Needing next time so it can be discussed.

 

If they have no reason other than 'cause I want it' they get booted and put on the Jawa Looter list.

 

And in this game there are consequences to getting a bad reputation. The servers are not so large that word doesn't get around.

[Creed_Buhallin]

Random side note: It's really sad just how far we've defined down 'ninja looter'.

 

Used to be that meant someone waiting for you to kill a mob, and then looting it before you had a chance to, without ever having contributed. That was actually stealing. Now, it means that you fight and contribute to killing something just like everyone else in the group, but take an even roll chance of claiming an item that someone disapproves of your intended use for.

 

And I'll say again that that's what we're talking about here: Player A disapproves of the use Player B plans for an item, and thinks it's not as important as the use they'd put it to. Having a wife who plays with me, trust me - to some players, appearance is way, WAY more important than the stats. You sitting there and telling them what uses are and aren't acceptable - or, to borrow a phrase, that they're playing wrong - is what's really rude and selfish.

[Calsetes]

Random side note: It's really sad just how far we've defined down 'ninja looter'.

 

Used to be that meant someone waiting for you to kill a mob, and then looting it before you had a chance to, without ever having contributed. That was actually stealing. Now, it means that you fight and contribute to killing something just like everyone else in the group, but take an even roll chance of claiming an item that someone disapproves of your intended use for.

 

And I'll say again that that's what we're talking about here: Player A disapproves of the use Player B plans for an item, and thinks it's not as important as the use they'd put it to. Having a wife who plays with me, trust me - to some players, appearance is way, WAY more important than the stats. You sitting there and telling them what uses are and aren't acceptable - or, to borrow a phrase, that they're playing wrong - is what's really rude and selfish.

 

My definition of "ninja looter" is about as close as you can get to the old one - the "ninja" waits until everyone hits Greed, then hits Need, ensuring he gets the item as he is the only one hitting Need.

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

...if anyone in that class is with your group.

 

I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game.

But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

 

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this

Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket

+34 Endurance

+38 Cunning

+18 Critical Rating

 

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

 

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

 

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

 

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.

 

Ah, shame, next thread please.

[Marmerus]

...if anyone in that class is with your group.

 

I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game.

But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

 

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this

Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket

+34 Endurance

+38 Cunning

+18 Critical Rating

 

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

 

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

 

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

 

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.

 

This is not WoW! Rolling greed ruins the community!

[Wakow]

Normally im healer or tank. Person needs an up for me that he just wants to strip sell or give to companion. I let him die. Over and over and over and over. "dude heal me!!!" my reply "dude I would but im slightly outta gear set here and a good upgrade would make it so I can watch over your big head."

[Wakow]

Um, couldn't the very same logic be applied to the Mara? More to the point, since the IA can use it as it, and the Mara would basically be obtaining marginal utility from it, why is it that the class who can actually USE it as designed has to grind for it?

 

Additionally: some companions really don't get much marginal benefit from pimping them out in gears. Vette does only if you're a Jugg, a DPS mara really gets zero benefit from Vette as all she does is die due to the Mara having no tanking tools. I've been researching this and it's interesting, some companions (particularly tanks for healers and healers for tanks) NEED purple gear or modded oranges, most of the DPS and ranged tanks don't get much benefit at all.

 

Companions are simply one step above hunter pets in wow. They have to be seriously geared to make a difference in anything. If you compare your companion to a mob same level they are about 75% an equal mob if geared close or to there level.

[AsheraII]

Well i have to admit as a marauder who got totally boned with appearance i would love to have that jacket. Just take out the mods and throw them out of the window and put warrior mods in

 

 

 

 

 

 

I meant if no agent is present.

Exactly. The jacket is only cosmetical. You can put those mods in any gear, you can get the mods from any crafter. So the roll for an orange jacket is purely a cosmetical roll, a Marauder and an Agent have more or less equal rights to it. The Marauder just has to put a bit more effort into making the jacket actually work out.

 

If an agent claims he "needs" that jacket, then that agent is basically saying "Hey, I'm too cheap to craft/buy a couple of mods and put them into about any jacket, like the one I got on one of my missions on Dromund Kaas. There is no NEED for orange gear, except for its cosmetics. The stats can very easily be aquired otherwise.

Edited January 26, 2012 by AsheraII

[Lizarduz]

Well, first of all I would never roll need on an item that another person needed more in a group (well unless we play the same class).

However, if for example something orange drops that I can use even if the stats are wrong, I would need roll on it IF I like the look, to mod it up to fit my needs.

 

Now

[ratfanatic]

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it

 

 

/thread

 

This is why Bioware needs to micro-manage loot distribution. Because dolts like yourself are too immature to respect other peoples' needs.

 

This is also why /LFG needs to be kept same server. So everyone puts this guy on their iggie list and he eventually never gets groups.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ratfanatic

[Jedi_Wannabe]

This is why Bioware needs to micro-manage loot distribution. Because dolts like yourself are too immature to respect other peoples' needs.

 

This is also why /LFG needs to be kept same server. So everyone puts this guy on their iggie list and he eventually never gets groups.

 

Agreed.

 

In a Massively Multiplayer game, players need to be learn to play Massively well with others.

[ferroz]

Random side note: It's really sad just how far we've defined down 'ninja looter'.

 

Used to be that meant someone waiting for you to kill a mob, and then looting it before you had a chance to, without ever having contributed. That was actually stealing. Now, it means that you fight and contribute to killing something just like everyone else in the group, but take an even roll chance of claiming an item that someone disapproves of your intended use for.

Indeed. the shaman in bear form that spam clicked to loot everything off of the 10th ring war fight...that's ninjalootingl.

 

someone who contributed to the fight, rolling with an even chance of loot... not a ninjalooter even if you disagree with why he threw his hat into the ring

 

And I'll say again that that's what we're talking about here: Player A disapproves of the use Player B plans for an item, and thinks it's not as important as the use they'd put it to. Having a wife who plays with me, trust me - to some players, appearance is way, WAY more important than the stats. You sitting there and telling them what uses are and aren't acceptable - or, to borrow a phrase, that they're playing wrong - is what's really rude and selfish.

I really don't see why that's such a hard notion to grasp...

[ThiborF]

I don't understand why this is even an issue. Every base class has a primary attribute, and every item or modification has one of those primary attributes and endurance. You should never, ever, ever equip an item that does not have your primary attribute. Doing so gimps yourself. By a lot. Further, secondary attributes are pretty straightforward. If you're a tank equipping mods with critical rating, power, or alacrity (***?), you're missing out on defense rating, shield rating, and absorption rating. Rolling on something that isn't an upgrade for you hurts other people in your group who could use the item, and it will earn you a very bad reputation on your server. Don't do it, as this game's item system makes the fine lines between "idiot," "greedy !@#$," and "reasonable player" very clear.

 

I don't understand why it's an issue ... not because of anything you stated ... but because so many people who obviously feel strongly enough to be able to type our their feelings on the matter here on these forums seem to be utterly incapable of discussing with three or seven other people in game before the run begins.

 

Don't assume everyone by default has the same views about loot you do. All it takes is a quick discussion before you drop the first mob which once everyone is on the same page, the only type of person you truly have to worry about is the real ninja/thief that states they agree with the group's policy and then rolls counter to it. And while those types certainly exist, they are far fewer than those who simply have a differing view on what's fair for loot rules and aren't willing to compromise or go along with the group majority for a single run.

 

But hey, if you (that's a general "you" and not the person I quoted) want to assume that everyone thinks they way you do about it and then by all means, continue to say nothing in-game to your group before the run starts and then come here whining about the alleged injustice of someone rolling Need on an item you felt you deserved. You're only painting the picture clearer on how much a fool you are.

[Creed_Buhallin]

I really don't see why that's such a hard notion to grasp...

Honestly, I think it's because SWTOR introduces a lot of different "needs" that people aren't accustomed to dealing with. Whether it's an appearance-only option, or gearable companions, there are far more potential uses for items than people are used to. Historically, most items pretty much fell into a single "Best for Class X" bin, with potentially an acceptable "Acceptable for Class Y". That made the definition of "need" easy. It isn't any more, and the commonly-established norms haven't quite caught up yet.

 

Of course, a lot of them also feel that their priorities should overrule and apply to everyone else, many to the point of threatening to blacklist people if they don't adhere to THEIR priorities. It's really ironic that they're the ones calling others rude and selfish.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Creed_Buhallin

[Zhothon]

But hey, if you (that's a general "you" and not the person I quoted) want to assume that everyone thinks they way you do about it and then by all means, continue to say nothing in-game to your group before the run starts and then come here whining about the alleged injustice of someone rolling Need on an item you felt you deserved. You're only painting the picture clearer on how much a fool you are.

Be realistic.

 

The person that needs on everything knows darn well on how the general public feels. I guarantee they have been yelled at and kicked out of groups in the past. If they have these anti-social views, THEY should make it clear at the start of the group.

 

Of course, I bet they have a pretty hard time finding groups that would allow them to need on all, but its the honorable thing to do. Then again, their action lacks honor so ................

[JimG]

Just put him on a list and never play with him again.

 

Exactly. It's a lame move and most players will not do this. Does he have the right to do it? Yes, under the game rules. Do you have the right to never group with him again, to put him on your ignore list and to let others know that he rolls need on things he can't equip? Yes. It's happened to me, just like I'm sure it's happened to all of us...and it sucks. But until BW changes the loot system, that's about all you can really do about it. Not every single person will agree with you but most will agree that guy is a tool for doing that.

 

However, I politely questioned someone in a FP about rolling need on something that they couldn't equip but that I could. He said he wasn't paying attention and shouldn't have rolled need on it and apologized about 3 times for it throughout the FP including when we were all done. Rage will usually be met with rage so I'll always give someone the benefit of the doubt at first.

 

But if they want to play the roll for need on everything game, I just won't group with them any more and I'll stick with people who play with a little consideration for others. This is probably the main reason I don't like the idea of a LFG tool that just throws everyone into a que...especially not a cross-server one. People that roll need on stuff they can't equip should have to live with the consequences of their reputation and find it more difficult to get into groups.

[SIMJEDI]

I'm guessing by the amount of lamenting in this thread that most complaining have never played EVE Online, or if they have they must have spent weeks saving up for a Hulk only to get ninja looted and ganked the first hour they had it out.....lmao

 

The entitlement attitude in here stinks more than the occupy hippies...haha

Edited January 26, 2012 by SIMJEDI