No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[ferroz]

Second, should point out that a tank who goes solely for defensives is going to have no threat. There's a reason, for example, that the Assassin tank tree also boosts crit stuff.

maybe it'll be a problem in Ops or hard modes... but it's certainly not an issue while leveling (other than the early lack of aoe threat problems due to lack of useful abilities..

[LaurV]

A funny thing:

 

my assassin in a group with a marauder. A lightsaber drops. It is one handed, one blade. It has +willpower and all that's good for a inquisitor.

 

The marauder needs, i need, i win.

 

The marauder: waaaaaaah, i need that, i will use it as offhand, you're a ninja.

Me: you don't use willpower, you need strenght, at least i will strip the mods and use them all at the right value.

 

The marauder: no no, it is a single blade weapon and is rightfully mine even if willpower is 0 for me.

 

So ... who has is the right one in this situation?

[ferroz]

A funny thing:

 

my assassin in a group with a marauder. A lightsaber drops. It is one handed, one blade. It has +willpower and all that's good for a inquisitor.

 

The marauder needs, i need, i win.

 

The marauder: waaaaaaah, i need that, i will use it as offhand, you're a ninja.

Me: you don't use willpower, you need strenght, at least i will strip the mods and use them all at the right value.

 

The marauder: no no, it is a single blade weapon and is rightfully mine even if willpower is 0 for me.

 

So ... who has is the right one in this situation?

whoever isn't complaining about it.

[Soulchilde]

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it

 

 

/thread

 

This is true, but it needs to be fixed. Needing for currently played toon is fine. but rolling for mods or worse your companions is just dumb, imo, but until Bioware decides to change it anyone can roll need

[Rodanth_The_Wise]

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it

 

 

/thread

 

Yup, until someone out-rolls you on a piece of gear you've been waiting for for days, maybe even weeks, and only intends on vendoring it or having it because it looks cool and doesn't benefit him statistically what so ever. Then you'll be the one coming here to ***** about it. And if I'm wrong, I'll be very, very surprised. I've seen tons of kids like you, and they are all the same. Yes I will be stereotypical. I haven't been surprised yet.

[Schnerf]

...if anyone in that class is with your group.

 

I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game.

But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

 

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this

Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket

+34 Endurance

+38 Cunning

+18 Critical Rating

 

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

 

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

 

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

 

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.

 

Need the crit out of that piece, sorry.

[Galbatorrix]

Nice false dichotomy there.

 

Have you considered that some, possibly even many, of the people who roll on loot in a fashion you disapprove of might have reasons? Or are you only caught up in disagreeing with those reasons and considering them objectively invalid as a result?

 

In short, what makes your perspective more valid than theirs?

 

Both perspectives are valid, which is why there's an impartial system in place to insure neither perspective takes ascendancy over the other. Anything beyond that isn't designed, only put forth in attempted enforcement via a social contract that these forums seem to make obvious not everyone subscribes to or agrees with.

 

Our perspective is more valid because Bioware FORCE FED these people what their proper stats were through out their entire play time. They know, as a Jedi Knight, that STR is their main stat. If they're rolling on Cunning items when a Smuggler is in the group, they're douche bags. Plain and simple. You can argue for these douche bags all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a douche move.

 

I think the arguments in this thread for your side are absolutely ridiculous. According to you, a person needing on an item that's not intended for their class is completely fine as long as it will benefit their character in some way. Well genius, every item can be sold and credits = better everything for my character. So, according to you, everyone should just roll need on everything that drops. Of course, this would completely destroy people's sole purpose for being in the flashpoint in the first place and will likely either shy them away from them in the future or in the very least, never group with you again. But, who cares about other people? Who cares about the community working together in hopes that people are decent to one another? As long as I gotz MINE, who cares about that other guy in the group? Heck, you may never see him again. Or then again, he may be group leader for that Heroic quest that you've been shouting about in gen chat for the last 10 minutes who refuses to let you join in the fun...

 

 

Also, if you're walking down the street and someone collapses on the side walk, just keep right on walking. I mean, you just picked up lunch and how dare that guy be selfish and entitled thinking you should let your lunch grow cold to help him out. Heck, you'll probably never see that guy again.

[ferroz]

Yup, until someone out-rolls you on a piece of gear you've been waiting for for days, maybe even weeks, and only intends on vendoring it or having it because it looks cool and doesn't benefit him statistically what so ever. Then you'll be the one coming here to ***** about it. And if I'm wrong, I'll be very, very surprised. I've seen tons of kids like you, and they are all the same. Yes I will be stereotypical. I haven't been surprised yet.

I wouldn't care.

 

Maybe I base less of my sense of self worth on the pixels that my virtual character has? Or perhaps it's that I don't think I'm more entitled to the gear than other people who were there to kill the boss that dropped it...

[DigitalPrime]

...if anyone in that class is with your group.

 

I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, or about this issue. People worry too much about loot, and I'm a big believer in just enjoying the game.

But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

 

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this

Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket

+34 Endurance

+38 Cunning

+18 Critical Rating

 

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

 

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

 

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim i's a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

 

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.

 

 

In FPs, only people should roll need for themselves. Not companions.

 

In heroic instances. Ask the group if you can roll need for a companion.

 

If people dont do this. I just put them on ignore, then forward there name to all my guild who also puts them on ignore. I advise everyone to do this as these ninjas will eventually get blacklisted by most of the server.

 

Dont rant, dont kick off. Just ignore them and move on. They will be the ones who looses out in the end if they keep there playstyle up!

 

MMO etiquette defines MMOs from other online games!

[ferroz]

I think the arguments in this thread for your side are absolutely ridiculous. According to you, a person needing on an item that's not intended for their class is completely fine as long as it will benefit their character in some way. Well genius, every item can be sold and credits = better everything for my character. [ So, according to you, everyone should just roll need on everything that drops.

I'm fine with that, if that's what you want to do...

 

Personally, I'm not that worried about credits per se, so I'll stick to rolling on the stuff that I want, for the reasons that I want it. I'll continue believing that your want isn't more important than mine. And I'll continue to believe that if you feel like you're somehow entitled to the loot for some arbitrary reason, that you're being selfish and greedy.

 

Of course, this would completely destroy people's sole purpose for being in the flashpoint in the first place and will likely either shy them away from them in the future or in the very least, never group with you again.

No, there are lots of reasons to run flash points.

 

But, who cares about other people?

The people who don't feel that they're more entitled to loot just because it matches some arbitrary pattern.

 

Who cares about the community working together in hopes that people are decent to one another?

The people who don't feel that they're more entitled to loot just because it matches some arbitrary pattern.

 

As long as I gotz MINE, who cares about that other guy in the group?

MINE = feels entitled to the gear for some reason. The only way you should feel entitled to it is if you won the roll.

 

Also, if you're walking down the street and someone collapses on the side walk, just keep right on walking.

Bad analogy. Edited January 26, 2012 by ferroz

[DigitalPrime]

A funny thing:

 

my assassin in a group with a marauder. A lightsaber drops. It is one handed, one blade. It has +willpower and all that's good for a inquisitor.

 

The marauder needs, i need, i win.

 

The marauder: waaaaaaah, i need that, i will use it as offhand, you're a ninja.

Me: you don't use willpower, you need strenght, at least i will strip the mods and use them all at the right value.

 

The marauder: no no, it is a single blade weapon and is rightfully mine even if willpower is 0 for me.

 

So ... who has is the right one in this situation?

 

Greed, you both dont really need it. so just greed to see the out come.

 

To be honest, BW should implement a system so if its not for your character, a need roll should be blocked out.

 

Could be hard to code though with all the different items in game!

[ferroz]

I feel that if someone wants to go against loot etiquette that has been around for over a decade, they owe it to the other players to speak up. The players using the decade old loot etiquette do not owe it to anyone to say "We're using the decade old loot rules."

Whoah, swtor has been around for a decade? How did I miss it all this time?

 

Some people have done NBG loot in some games over the last decade. And some haven't. And none of that really applies in a game where the loot usage is so radically different than many other games (with companions using loot and keeping it permanently, and having piecemeal gear that comes in a appearance container)

[ferroz]

To be honest, BW should implement a system so if its not for your character, a need roll should be blocked out.

 

Could be hard to code though with all the different items in game!

I seem to recall someone posting a quote that implied that it's not hard, but BW disagreed with that loot philosophy...

[Aghar]

I seem to recall someone posting a quote that implied that it's not hard, but BW disagreed with that loot philosophy...

 

Just because some random person says its not that hard, does not mean its easy. Most of the people on the forums have either none or very little programming experience. And it is an even smaller percentage that have mmo programming experience. It took WoW till Wrath to figure out how to implement that kind of system. And its not like blizzard is going to let bioware see their server side code.

[Suzina]

Need before greed.

 

 

Need is when it is an upgrade for your character.

 

Greed is for everything else (sell to vendor, sell to auction house, cosmetic outfit, companion outfit, destroy for fun, ect...)

 

 

You should not press "need" on items that are not an upgrade for you. That's why there's 2 buttons (greed and need) instead of just "roll"

[Vlacke]

Need before greed.

 

 

Need is when it is an upgrade for your character.

 

Greed is for everything else (sell to vendor, sell to auction house, cosmetic outfit, companion outfit, destroy for fun, ect...)

 

 

You should not press "need" on items that are not an upgrade for you. That's why there's 2 buttons (greed and need) instead of just "roll"

 

WRONG.

 

There are THREE buttons actually, an option to PASS is also available, the sad thing is aside from myself and a very small percentage of others i rarely see anyone pass on anything.

[Busukaba]

Our perspective is more valid because Bioware FORCE FED these people what their proper stats were through out their entire play time. They know, as a Jedi Knight, that STR is their main stat. If they're rolling on Cunning items when a Smuggler is in the group, they're douche bags. Plain and simple. You can argue for these douche bags all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a douche move.

 

See, I never understand this mode of thinking, but then, I'm not a gear/stat hound. It's like people teling me they don't want me in a flashpoint with them because my gear isn't maxed out. How stupid is that? I don't need maxed out gear to keep your dumb *** alive, I just need to know how to play.

 

I think the arguments in this thread for your side are absolutely ridiculous. According to you, a person needing on an item that's not intended for their class is completely fine as long as it will benefit their character in some way. Well genius, every item can be sold and credits = better everything for my character. So, according to you, everyone should just roll need on everything that drops.

 

And why not? If my companion can use it why not? It's just gear. If you have a compulsive disorder that means you need to run every flashpoint 23 times to get the gear it drops for your class... it's not really my problem. You need help, not me. Credits are nice to, I guess, but I always made way more money from tooling around solo and seling that than anything I won off a flashpoint

 

Of course, this would completely destroy people's sole purpose for being in the flashpoint in the first place

 

Really? my sole reason for doing a flashpoint is to get some lame *** gear that I'll find a better drop for in an hour and a half when adventuring solo? Yeah, you're right, I'd never do a flashpoint for story, social dynamics or simply to have human contact in this game.

 

 

The rest of your post is garbage anyway. Look, you can try and impose your will and order, but why? Who really cares? Why are you so gear obsessed that you need to whine on the forums because someone took your candy away? I still haven't heard a valid reason why Bioware should restrict the Need button. If I or my companion of choice needs the gear, I'll need it. Too bad for you if I win. and no, I don't care about your plight anymore than you pretend to champion mine.

 

So please, get off your high horse because you don't deserve anything. I play the game same as you and I only run each flashpoint once (for story purposes). If I see something I want, I need it, if not, I'll greed or pass. I always have a reason to need something and it's not to sell it for credits. You have a problem with it, write down my name and never play with me again, I really don't care. In the end, it's just a game, a diversion from my busy life that I maybe get to play an hour a day. It doesn't hurt me if you get some gear i wanted just like it does nothing to you if I get something you wanted.

[Galbatorrix]

Some people just don't do well socially in these type environments. They are playing this game like a single player game and they couldn't care less about the people around them. They may as well be NPCs.

 

Myself, I say the loot goes to the person that can get the most use out of it. PC's primary stats > Companion gear > Aesthetics. That's the way I play, and I never hear a single complaint. I've even gotten compliments from people when I'd pass on a piece of gear that was almost equal to what I'm wearing and told them to need for their companion. People really appreciate things like that. Of course I also ask before I need for something for the latter two reasons above... you know, just to be polite to the other people in the group that were kind enough to lend their time so we could go through this group based event. Then again, I'm not a douche.

 

Some parents out there really did fail miserably teaching their kids how to behave properly. Then again, most of the people ninjaing loot are probably still kids themselves anyway. So, I guess you can only get so upset when dealing with people that still have a lot of growing up to do.

[sjmc]

the loot goes to the person that can get the most use out of it. PC's primary stats > Companion gear

Based on what data? Is a player that is getting a +1 Aim benefit making more use from it than my tank companion, for which it might be a +5 Aim increase plus an improvement in armor level? How could you even answer the question, not knowing what the two players will be doing next?

 

Just because some people think companions don't need gear, doesn't mean that everyone does.

[Saurakk]

You cannot teach manners or proper social etiquette to immature children with entitlement issues. Sadly some are adult children which makes it even worse....for them.

 

Blame their parents, but in the end, just weed them out and let your ignore list grow.

 

Warn your guildies or keep a list on your guild forums.

 

Do not let it get to you. Just feel sad for them.

 

They have to wake up each day as miserable as the previous.

[Galbatorrix]

Based on what data? Is a player that is getting a +1 Aim benefit making more use from it than my tank companion, for which it might be a +5 Aim increase plus an improvement in armor level? How could you even answer the question, not knowing what the two players will be doing next?

 

Just because some people think companions don't need gear, doesn't mean that everyone does.

 

 

 

Need on whatever you want to need on. I'm really tired of trying to argue decency because it's obviously a lost cause.

[Dave_M]

where's the AIM-Saber love gone....

 

I was smiling while reading back in the early pages how someone was calling someone else a bad person when they admitted they would roll need on an AIM-Saber.....

 

People should consider stuff before posting.... i think we should have a new thread just for AIM-Saber's to discussed, that was funny

 

I too would roll need on an aim-saber..... i'm Merc but I don't use aim, hmmm, wonder which saber user needs it .... hehhe

[Suzina]

A funny thing:

 

my assassin in a group with a marauder. A lightsaber drops. It is one handed, one blade. It has +willpower and all that's good for a inquisitor.

 

The marauder needs, i need, i win.

 

The marauder: waaaaaaah, i need that, i will use it as offhand, you're a ninja.

Me: you don't use willpower, you need strenght, at least i will strip the mods and use them all at the right value.

 

The marauder: no no, it is a single blade weapon and is rightfully mine even if willpower is 0 for me.

 

So ... who has is the right one in this situation?

 

Neither of you can really click "need" as neither of you can equip the item as-is, so both would have to ask in party chat before clicking need.

 

The game sometimes adds a handy "disassemble" button for you next to "need" and "greed". It's roll is no different than "greed" and you will roll with the "greed" people, but it makes it very clear what disassembling an item should be considered.

 

Sadly, the game doesn't make it clear whether "need" or "greed" is the right choice for companions.

[SgtFrog]

This is why I hate PuG, always the same issue in every MMO.

Even if they did limit what you can roll on people would still have a work around it.

[BigBadEdward]

To the OP and the subject, yes I can and there isn't anything you can do about it.