Sedic Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorry I am confused, why would players who do not like the arena system claim they do not want it when it is a 100% voluntary action? There is a smaller minority of people who love arena who love the fact that your fighting on a ladder system, that there is zero chance of anyone interrupting your fight and it all comes down to you and your partners skill. Yes of course some balancing would take place on classes all arena would do is put a spot like on the too powerful classes so Bioware may allow balance. World of Warcraft had massive diversity in there classes that caused huge balance issues constantly, Swtor has very very similar mechanics entwined into each class that would save tones of nerf/buff patchs. Things Swtor could do better to Arena type pvp -> Same rewards for Arena pvp as all other type battlegrounds? (same gain rate, so people who only like arena dont have to play huttball against/with bots and afks.) ->I always felt the competitive edge of different gear was what made Arena fun the guy with the legendary hit hard that how it was supposed to work. Swtor could simply auto buff stats to the same level (just like low lvls in bgs) so that regardless of your gear it actually did come down to skill. TLDR : Arenas were fun in wow, a lot of people used them. Why are there masses of people so against in a 100% voluntary action in a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Things they need to do before worrying about an arena system. Fix PVP Fix Ilum Fix resolve bar Fix ability lag Plus I would prefer not to have it, just to keep WZ's and Ilum full. I am a good pvp'r and would do quite well in arena's but they need to focus on warzones imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negatyv Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is not WoW. let me paste what I said in another arena thread: Pass on having arena in SWTOR. Then you will see gear obtained only from Arena, then that adds an extra step for people to grind in order to survive in any kind of PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knvkl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Arena has inflated rewards that force people into the arena mini-game, even if they don't want to. If arena only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give arena players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day. Edited January 21, 2012 by Knvkl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizah Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is not WoW. let me paste what I said in another arena thread: Pass on having arena in SWTOR. Then you will see gear obtained only from Arena, then that adds an extra step for people to grind in order to survive in any kind of PvP This. Also as I saw from Blizzard, they had such a hard time trying to make PvE and PvP balanced with Arenas implemented that it was causing chaos between PvPers and PvEers with nerfs/buff demands that it got out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raencloud Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you put in Arena, you must dedicate a significant amount of time into balancing the game around groups and comps of that size. This frequently led to balancing changes in WoW that impacted the viability of specs outside of arena, both in BGs and especially PvE content that were completely fine. This is a large reason to why I quit playing WoW. I do not want to see TOR follow the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naethion Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 When a lead designer in WoW says Arena was the worse thing they could have ever done, you know it was bad. Most PvP balance came from Arenas, and in turn affected people who did Bgs or WZs and in turn it ****ed up the PvE'ers. So no. You want 3v3 Go set it up with the people of your own side, then talk to people of the opposite Faction, find a nice area away from interruptions and you can have all the "Arena" time you want. NO ONE wants people stroking their E-peen in everyone's faces every chance they get. Its not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think arenas would be awesome. I like testing my skills against other payers, instead of just death matching 8v8 in huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asamighost Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you want us to take PVP seriously we will need ARENAS. I dont care about WoW having Arenas or any other game, we as PVPers need them. One thing is true, they need to fix the current PVP adn the ability delay first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Why are so many people against Arena in Swtor? Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP. "Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well. The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button. It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed. So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) WoW is about the only big MMO with Arena in it and Blizzard Devs have gone on record saying if there was one thing they could undo, it would be Arenas. Arenas are absolutely horrible for an MMO, as they lead to either dissatisfied players playing classes that don't jive well with Arena mechanics OR homogenization, where every class becomes the same. You can't have arena without one or the other, and - like WoW - you wind up having both usually. I don't feel Arena has any place in an MMO. It's better saved for something like a FPS, where everyone is playing the same "class" with the same "abilities." Edited January 21, 2012 by McVade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anozir Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Also, it forces the game devs to balance skills and abilities around a 2v2 environment. Blizzard is openly trying to get rid of the arenas (or atleast marginalize) since it was impossible to balance the PvP environment and the PvE environment around a small group PvP match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valcutio Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hated Arenas in WoW. Will hate them worse here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsemaster Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Arena has inflated rewards that force people into the arena mini-game, even if they don't want to. If arena only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give arena players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day. WHY? I already have to play the crap minigames that pass for warzones for gear, why not make it simple and balanced and add arena instead of OMGTANKHEALER HUTTBALL, SO FUN. At least arena involves killing, which makes it much MORE of a player versus player experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I really don't care as long as arena gear is just decorative or is no better than the best gear you can get through comparable means with the same amount of time investment. I would say skill investment, but the definition of skill in an MMO is up for debate because some people consider playing an OP class, playing OP class combos, and queuing with friends to roll pugs skill. The question is, are there enough players interested in arena to make it worthwhile for Bioware to put money into creating it? The second question is, will that cause an expensive and frustrating cycle of class nerfs and buffs in an attempt to make arena actually competitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsemaster Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 People like to be able to hide in a massive zerg and spam OMGTRACERMISSILE LIGHTNING BOLT, see big numbers and get hard. They think this is an actual test of their skill. Pressing one button. Meanwhile, any talk of controlling the zerg is met with "OMG NO BIOWARE, THATS NOT MY ROLEPLAYING GAME, I WANT TO ROMANCE MY ROBOT WHILE MARCHING WITH THE MIGHTY PIGEONHEAD ARMY, AND ARENAS MAKE ME PAY ATTENTION TO SUCCEED. NO, NOT OK." GG Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negatyv Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP. "Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well. The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button. It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed. So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP. Actually I remember clearly some of the many instances where they've nerfed abilities solely because of PvP. For example, Shaman's interrupt cooldown was increased because of PvP resto, which caused DPS shamans to have to spec into a useless talent in order to maintain the short interrupt cooldown for raiding. Fan of Knives was nerfed back in Wrath for PvP reasons, when rogues also used it as their only source of aoe for certain boss fights that spawned a lot of adds In Vanilla, Blizzard killed the whole idea of 2h Shamans in PvE because WF was too powerful in pvp So if Arena--being a smaller PvP setting where abilities matter--is introduced, that would result in certain combinations being overly powerful vs the rest, and that ALWAYS leads to balancing nightmares that will affect PvE does anyone really want to bring that curse onto SWTOR? Edited January 21, 2012 by Negatyv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Because people who don't enjoy pillar humping and FOTM class combos hate that they'll have to do it anyway or be squashed by the superior arena gear when arena players join the WZ/world pvp they actually do like. If it gave similar gear- it wouldn't be an issue. But, long as it gives better gear- people will hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerbase Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Arenas in the end make every class function more or less the same, BORING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navster Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If it gave similar gear- it wouldn't be an issue. But, long as it gives better gear- people will hate it. i agree with this, so lets keep the gear the same so its strictly optional to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 For example, Shaman's interrupt cooldown was increased because of PvP resto, which caused DPS shamans to have to spec into a useless talent in order to maintain the short interrupt cooldown for raiding. It was also nerfed because a shaman - any shaman really - was insanely good for any raid boss that needed an interrupt. It went both ways there, a healer having a (situationally) better interrupt than a Rogue or Mage wasn't going over well in several raids, either. Fan of Knives was nerfed back in Wrath for PvP reasons, when rogues also used it as their only source of aoe for certain boss fights that spawned a lot of adds You may not remember just how much damage FoK's intial incarnation did in PvE. The only part of FoK that was nerfed for PvP reasons was the spammable interrupt, the damage portion was perfectly legitimate to nerf in PvE. (And FoK remains perfectly viable for AE DPS today.) In Vanilla, Blizzard killed the whole idea of 2h Shamans in PvE because WF was too powerful in pvp Not really a fair one, that change happened long before arena and was during a time when the entire game was new and lots of things needed to be brought into line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alithia Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Go back to WoW. Arena was WoW's second biggest mistake right after pandas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Go back to WoW. Arena was WoW's second biggest mistake right after pandas. 2v2 was the biggest mistake (and usually the bracket people think of when they think about PvP imbalance). 3v3 has survived and flourished as a very competitive format. Edited January 21, 2012 by Bovinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesmcalli Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Because arenas would be the same fotm comp garbage that they are in WoW. PVP changes would be made around them in an attempt to balance, and in turn would screw the WZ players and PVE. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) baddies cant take being exposed as baddies the arena question is always answered the same way with the same excuses. not one person ever says "I hate arena because I wasn't good enough to get gladiator", which in 90% of the cases, is the truth. face it baddies, when I landed next to you on my frost wyrm, you had to admit (even if it was very briefly, and only to yourself) that no matter what you did, this would be beyond your grasp thats what mmo players don't like the most Edited January 21, 2012 by bicuspid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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