LordXile Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I sure am glad you are not a game developer. Or managing my business. Yes, cause it's possible to keep the people that are just here for the heck of it from quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I wonder if the anti Empire folks have any evidence whatsoever that BW is giving Empire an upper hand then the republic. As i can tell both factions are mirrored and have the same tools. Or maybe it is just easier to blame BW since the players themselves have L2P issues. If only there were many threads detailing the differences. Oh wait, there are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If only there were many threads detailing the differences. Oh wait, there are. you got trolled son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothnang Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes, being outnumbered is a problem you can solve purely by playing better. You know, since there is no way that the players you play against might also be good at the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocping Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The people that will leave will leave anyway, they're the FOTM crowd, nothing can stop them from leaving, Hell just look at all the QQ from 1.1 Patch, all those quitters after 1 day. They were just looking for an excuse to leave and call the game fail. After the inevitable loss of the FOTM players, you'll see more balance. Empire defending obvious loophole in PVP? Impossibru! So many empires giving excuses about "it's not faction imbalance" bla bla bla. Well guess what, I don't care if you have 10:1. In PVP with epic gear rewards it should always be 1:1. If you empires still can't get it, this is the main problem: Empire is getting free gear simply due to the fact that they outnumber Republic on Ilum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjetl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 L2PvP and stop trying to pvp on Ilum solo? Wow, you are either suffering from deficient reading skills or you didn't bother to read the post. GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yes, cause it's possible to keep the people that are just here for the heck of it from quitting. So the better alternative is not trying at all? Again, that is just negligent decision making as far as businesses go. You do realize that taking this attitude has the potential to lose millions of dollars and potentially thousands of jobs, right? Oh, but I forget, we don't care about that. We just want to sit in our chair and take a hard stance as an armchair philosophers without thinking through the real work consequences for poor decision making. "Sure, we don't need these thousands and thousands of customers at $15/month, just let em go..." rofl... Edited January 21, 2012 by Killadrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOneHit Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I wonder if the anti Empire folks have any evidence whatsoever that BW is giving Empire an upper hand then the republic. As i can tell both factions are mirrored and have the same tools. Or maybe it is just easier to blame BW since the players themselves have L2P issues. proof, lol!!! there is a lot of proof. easiest way is to play lets say a consular and and inquisitor, animation is blatantly obvious. the consular has slow moves and the inquisitor has very fast and instant moves. you sir have no clue at all, just go play both and you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXile Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What are you talking about? Seriously? In the movies the Sith are a parable to the nazis and the evils of fascism. They commit genocide, and are characterized by corruption and stamping out any right people have for individual expression. The whole point of the movie is that life under the heel of the empire is a bad thing. The movie also makes a point of saying that technology and progress were lost because of the Empires tyrannical reign, and nobody except their military machine really prospered. In this game it's like the empire was re-written into this perfect warrior society where the strong get ahead and everything is great. Where in ANY of the promotional material for SWTOR does it ever mention any serious faults or downsides or weaknesses of the empire? Compare that to the number of times it mentions the faults, downsides and weaknesses of the Republic... Play the Sith stories and it's the same thing, This Sith empire though is different cause it's 3000 years before the movies, of which only mentioned in novels and comics, so it's still exactly as it is in every medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 lordxile is gso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKaras Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I play Republic on my server, Warriors of the Shadow, and last night we had a pretty large group formed in Ilum. It could have made for some epic clashes...if it wasnt for the fact that just about all of us were playing with 1 fps. First REAL battle we got into my game crashed QFT. I can go from 30 FPS to .1 FPS in a second on Ilum. Needs to be fixed. The lag is unbearable there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yes blame Bioware for making the faction appealing to players, They didn't give us advantages, they gave us what we wanted, a chance to play the Sith. Do you know how many games you could be an actual Sith? Zero. None. Nada. The story alone is what brought most people here. You know why? No games about the Sith. They didn't play the Sith up in any way, they showed Sith being Sith, and bland Jedi being Jedi. Stop blaming Bioware because you made the "bland and boring" faction choice. It'll all even out once the FOTM players leave for something newer and shinier. Then only the Star Wars fans will remain and then you'll see a difference in numbers, SWG republic outnumbered Empire 5:1. Granted there were only 10000 people playing that game, but still you get my point. Except for that 90% of animation delay issues are on Republic side, and many Empire zones are smaller, allowing them to level faster. Several little other issues where the Empire mirror class is better than the Republic. See Sith Warrior's aoe incap also doing a knockdown. If the Republic is "bland and boring" it's Bioware's responsibility to make it more interesting, other wise the faction will die, and then either all PvP will be Empire vs Empire or the game will just die. Edited January 21, 2012 by savionen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Play the Sith stories and it's the same thing, This Sith empire though is different cause it's 3000 years before the movies, of which only mentioned in novels and comics, so it's still exactly as it is in every medium. wow too much RP, cheers tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerooy_Jenkins Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 L2PvP and stop trying to pvp on Ilum solo? Wow ... just WOW are you serious? have you triued to get a group of repubs together on Ilum ? every once in awhile if most o fthe empire has completed their dailys we might be an even match for them or possible find a straggler empire player about but during primetime its not going to happen or if it does it will not last long you empire guys amaze me with your sheer ignorance sometimes /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Zajo- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Republic got less attention, fleet station and coruscant make my freaking eyes bleed. mmm it's true that many planets and areas on Sith side looks better. The fleet alone shows a big difference, especially the crew skill area. But every player creating their char for the first time does not know that. They choose Sith/Jedi based on what they seen in trailers and any other relation they have to Star Wars the movies. Personally I think the random quest stories and the main storyline (Jedi Cou/Sith Inq) is created a lot better on Jedi side than Sith. That might be cause I gerenally think it's embarrasing being all "He will regret the day he saw me" or "I will leave nothing alive" or "My epeen is bigger than yours". So everything within me cringed playing Sith. I found all conversation choices lame and embarrasing. But is it enough to blame BW for the faction imbalance? Or is it a player choice issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 there is more to the game than sith/jedi just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOneHit Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 there is more to the game than sith/jedi just saying. there is, you can always play the stun and kill in 3 hits operative too thats gotta be fun for the imps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotland Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 there is, you can always play the stun and kill in 3 hits operative too thats gotta be fun for the imps. stealth classes are boring and a tight assist usually makes quick work of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangKer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So much humor from both sides in this thread, it's like watching a political debate of two limp wristed mouth breathers trying to prove their way is better, and yet no one have yet to put down solid suggestions, just standard Third Riech Hate Speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorasx Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 proof, lol!!! there is a lot of proof. easiest way is to play lets say a consular and and inquisitor, animation is blatantly obvious. the consular has slow moves and the inquisitor has very fast and instant moves. you sir have no clue at all, just go play both and you will see. As i can tell the only delay is project VS shock. If a Consular and an Inquisitor are fighting a project, though in animation is delayed, will still hit if the consular dies. The same bloody goes for EVERY skill/tool since it is mirrored. Its not my fault you or other people get outplayed by better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 do none of you notice how on Alderaan Civil War no matter who caps first, the Empire always gets ahead in score? That's some damn brilliant coding right there. Also notice how there's been absolutely no acknowledgement of the problem or mention of it through 4 patches? Mhm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycoon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I play Empire and Republic. I went to Ilum last night on my Empire toon. There were zero Republic players in the zone and about 30 Empire players riding around in circles picking up the armaments. I got two or three in about an hour. The Empire zerg is so bad that the Republic won't even bother with Ilum, why would they? Offering pvp rewards for driving your speeder around for hours is bad game design. What is the real point of Ilum? The objectives really mean nothing. There is no winner or loser. It is just a place where the side with the most players will zerg the other side into the ground. I remember playing Arathi Basin and that was a blast. It was balanced player wise and there were objectives to hold similar to Voidstar but it required some tactics and the objectives were further apart to eliminate the zerg. The night after the patch We had 30 to 50 and they had 10. I doubt they got more than 3 kills. The Republic players are all dead before most of us could even get to them and get a shot off. Fun? I guess so if you are into ganking, which a great majority are although they won't admit it. The PVP in SWTOR is very disappointing. Huttball is not fun with all the stupid pulls and pushes. Pulls are great when you get to to do them. They really stink when you have absolutely no counter for them. Warhammer was coined stunhammer for a time as it was a joke. The first to get the stun off won and some classes could stack them up. Much like the discussion of the OP. To be stunned and killed in 3 seconds is no fun for the one being killed and takes little skill from the one doing the killing. World pvp have always equal zerg pvp. If you dont know this, then you never played anything but WoW. Get use to it, Ilum is here to stay. Dont like it. Then go to the fleet and organize a counter. Stop waiting for bioware to fix it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What are you talking about? Seriously? In the movies the Sith are a parable to the nazis and the evils of fascism. They commit genocide, and are characterized by corruption and stamping out any right people have for individual expression. The whole point of the movie is that life under the heel of the empire is a bad thing. The movie also makes a point of saying that technology and progress were lost because of the Empires tyrannical reign, and nobody except their military machine really prospered. In this game it's like the empire was re-written into this perfect warrior society where the strong get ahead and everything is great. Where in ANY of the promotional material for SWTOR does it ever mention any serious faults or downsides or weaknesses of the empire? Compare that to the number of times it mentions the faults, downsides and weaknesses of the Republic... There is definitely something odd about playing Empire, but in no way do I think they were trying to get people to favor Empire and in no way do I think they were favoring Empire. It's simply that if they had created a realistic fascist society filled with genocide and slavery and then made it so that light side choices were more of a dirty gray shade or resulted in severe punishment or character obliteration, few people would play Empire. The funny thing is, the way they set it up, the corruption and greed one encounters in the Republic storyline is more disturbing to me and makes me like my faction less than the outright evil encountered in the Empire storyline. I rather liked using my Empire toon to 'buck the system', but then again, there were no consequences for doing so. But even if there had been, I think I would have liked playing light side Empire. The only reason I'm playing Republic at all right now is to actually do something constructive about the pvp imbalance. Also, on both Empire and Republic side, I was forced to choose between bad and worse sometimes from my own moral point of view. One thing that I think could help make Republic more appealing is gear awarded for players who end up with a neutral alignment (then give me the option to quietly execute a few corrupt officials here and there) but I think I see why they didn't implement neutral rewards. It would be extremely tricky to do it well. Then there's the issue of the basis of the light and dark side choices. Star Wars has some of its basis in Buddhism, right? The nature of Buddhist philosophy is very non-violent. So, using an early Empire storyline as an example, here I am going around and slaughtering all kinds of people and animals, but then, when I have a choice between letting a genocidal hunter of a sentient and enslaved species go free or killing him, I get light side points for telling him to stop hunting slaves but then I let him go. No way does this fit with the standard MMO slaughter I've been carrying out. So it comes off wrong. And in my opinion, Republic players run into these jarring inconsistencies more often than Empire players do, at least during the early hours of play. To play light side Republic is to hold to the very highest moral standard, especially for Jedi. To play a light side Empire toon is to go against the grain, to bring light into darkness, against everything around us. It's easier to let some of the weirder choices slide. Well, sometimes. Anyway, I shouldn't have gone all essay on this, I really just meant to say that I don't think they favored Empire on purpose or expected players to flock to Empire. If anything, they probably expected the opposite to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't get it, are the armaments only lootable by the Empire? Are they only spawning near the Empire's base? Since the answer is no, how does this work only for the Empire? Doesn't seem like there's any bias at all here. World pvp has long been about uneven numbers- if that's not your thing, WZ exist for those who want a fair fight. That's the entire reason the two facets of pvp are put into the game. World pvp has never been fair or nice- I don't know where you people keep coming up with this. In UO you get stomped by someone and you lose stuff. In DAoC you have two factions ganging up to keep the third from accomplishing anything ever. In WAR it's nothing but zergs. In WoW number imbalances were off the charts... until of course they made world pvp zones instanced and number capped them like a BG... so, not really world pvp anymore. If you want BW to make Ilum a capped instance, start asking for it- they've already set a big cap due to world pvp hater whining, I'm pretty sure if you keep it up they'll set the cap even lower- only 10 Republic players want to do world pvp? Well, only 10 Imps can world pvp then- whine, and you'll receive eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocping Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 World pvp have always equal zerg pvp. If you dont know this, then you never played anything but WoW. Get use to it, Ilum is here to stay. Dont like it. Then go to the fleet and organize a counter. Stop waiting for bioware to fix it for you. World PVP in WoW gave close to zero rewards. Zerging on Ilum? Instant battlemaster! Missed the turret exploits? You still outnumber the Repubs 10:1 everyday and they can't complete their dailies since 99% of the time there's <10 repubs there. The fact of the matter is Ilum is zerg-based and gives out epic rewards. This in itself is WRONG. I dare any Empire player to justify why you should get to complete quests for epic gear by just outnumbering your enemy in a PVP game. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts