Class Nerfs DEVS Please Read This

[cylak]

OK

 

I have fought every class ingame , now some classes do alot of damage, + those that do alot of damage fast, are extremely weak.

 

This change to OPS will start the decline of pvp on this game, after the OP gets nerfed, someone else will cry about another class and that will get nerfed, and so on, all creating extremely bad balance's within the game.

 

The only thing an OP needs reduced is the knockdown, thats it,if your playing in a group situation and you see one of your group mates get hit my an op, you shield that and throw a small heal, then the OP dies, because they are extremely weak.

 

Nerfs have ruined PVP in all games, before the developers start lsitening to the cry babies that constantly whine on these servers, please ask the major guilds what they think, because as far as class balance goes within the game, some need a few twinks, like the ops knockdown thats it, reducing a classes damage due to bad players crying about the class, starts a bad chain reaction that will ruin pvp.

 

 

It should be, if a class isnt perfoming give it a slight buff, nerfing classes ruins pvp in all games, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, do not go down that road.

 

 

Few things i have seen from a healing sorcs perspective

 

1. Smugs/Ops, the only problem is the extremely long knockdown, if you survive the burst they are usless and have to vanish.

 

2. Comandos, the heavy armour+ range hurt pretty bad, especially being focused fired apon, but thats life, need to cross heal better as a group (i really have no ideah about the class, they just seem to destroy me pretty bad)

 

3. juggs , need a slight increase to damage i think (my thoughts anyway) i dont play one, but when they beat on me i really laugh.

 

4.the rock throw jedis do is extremely anoying, especially since a sorcs mirror slows, but again i would not ask for that to be changed, it adds variety.

 

 

 

i could add more, but i am sure the flames will start when i post this, again devs take extreme caution if you are going to nerf a class, that initself inbalances the game, ask decent players opinions , do not listen to the hordes of people that cry on forums because a "certain" class beats them.

 

 

 

Cheers

5.

[Jestunhi]

Nerfing does not ruin games.

 

Unnecessary nerfing does.

 

Both nerfing and boosting have the same effect, to bring a class in line with the others.

 

Boosting 15 AC's to match the 1AC which is ahead would mean far more testing required before knowing if it resolved the imbalance.

 

 

And I have yet to see anything to show that BW nerfed Ops due to whines rather than the data which they have available to them. Claiming to know why they made their decision just makes you look desperate to support your point of view.

[Dravinian]

I disagree with you.

 

I am happy with the OP nerf.

 

It isn't enough to claim them as weak and therefore they need a massive increase in damage. Firstly it just doesn't appear to be true from my experience of them and secondly, as you stated, they can vanish.

 

Why should a class have such a high chance to kill someone using knockdowns and stuns and then IF by some miracle you survive you can't even kill them because they can vanish away.

 

This is a group game.

 

Time for OPs to learn to play in a group and assist people rather than being Rambo.

[Duaragon]

Agreed totally.

Noobs that get their but owned will always go to whine on forum and cry for ners, and they will do it even after the nerfs since weekling is weekling and will get kicked even if some classes lose their fire-power.

Its not available to buy a pvp skill so far - so the only option for them is to cry for nerfs.

[Jestunhi]

Agreed totally.

Noobs that get their but owned will always go to whine on forum and cry for ners, and they will do it even after the nerfs since weekling is weekling and will get kicked even if some classes lose their fire-power.

Its not available to buy a pvp skill so far - so the only option for them is to cry for nerfs.

 

Crying for nerfs is pointless as long as Bioware balance based on their own data.

 

With the Illum base fights they have explained that they have very detailed data available to them. Why would they balance based on what the vocal minority whine about?

[Dravinian]

Agreed totally.

Noobs that get their but owned will always go to whine on forum and cry for ners, and they will do it even after the nerfs since weekling is weekling and will get kicked even if some classes lose their fire-power.

Its not available to buy a pvp skill so far - so the only option for them is to cry for nerfs.

 

Agreed totally.

 

Noobs that are play overpowered classes will always go to whine on the forum and cry when nerfed, and they will do it even after the nerfs prove balanced because weakling is weakling and will no longer get easy wins now their class has lost their fire power.

 

It's not available to play OP class so far - so the only option is for them to cry for their nerfs to be reversed.

 

 

....See what I did there

[Madwooki]

^ do not fret young padawans. Assassins/shadow will be next cause they can stealth, BH for tracer missles, Juggs for massive aoes, and sorc/sage bubbles just to name a few.

 

Once 1 class goes down this path they all follow suit. Anyone who has played Mmo's for more than 10 years knows this. Especially if u played warhammer, we have the same devs.

[KorwinOfAmber]

Its like you are new to MMOs.

 

Few simple facts:

1) There always will be nerfs.

2) Nerfs go in circles.

3) Most nerfs are justified.

4) Eventually there will be a rewamp.

5) Long term, all those changes are positive.

 

Whenever you encounter something that is too good to be true, expect it to be nerfed. Does not matter what logic you use to justify it. Its always the same - its always better to "nerf" questionable mechanic, rather then to leave it or make a workaround. Changes are inevitable.

 

OP is too strong, now nerfed and OPs complain about BH and sorcs? They will be nerfed next. BHs and Sorcs nerfed and complain about Juggernauts and Maradeurs? They are next. Once the circle ends, rewamp of class comes, and then another nerf.

 

Its unpleasant for those who play the class, but its necessary. People crying about nerfs are close minded players that only care about their own enjoyment and not overall balance. I seen million nerfs in different MMOs, and i hardly can recall an unjustified one, or that in the end would lead to class playing worse than it was.

 

Unfair mechanics are change, new introduced, balance changes all the time.

 

I also million times seen the people defend even stupideset mechanics and exploits, always justifying it in one or another way (just for example - AoC Guardians justifying one shotting people with charge-overreach bugged instant attack by telling them to l2p, stack all shields forward, get a buffs and healers e.t.c. or) and its always the same song sung.

 

I immediately loose any respect for players that start whining if their class is "nerfed". Nerfhammer happens, and its in most cases justified. If its not, in the end its still for the good.

[Jestunhi]

^ do not fret young padawans. Assassins/shadow will be next cause they can stealth, BH for tracer missles, Juggs for massive aoes, and sorc/sage bubbles just to name a few.

 

Once 1 class goes down this path they all follow suit. Anyone who has played Mmo's for more than 10 years knows this. Especially if u played warhammer, we have the same devs.

 

Balance != nerfing every class or nerfing whoever is whined about most.

 

Bad experiences in other games do not mean that this one will fail by default.

[KorwinOfAmber]

Agreed totally.

Noobs that get their but owned will always go to whine on forum and cry for ners, and they will do it even after the nerfs since weekling is weekling and will get kicked even if some classes lose their fire-power.

Its not available to buy a pvp skill so far - so the only option for them is to cry for nerfs.

 

Who are the nubs - people killed by imbalanced game mechanic, or people crying their class is now useless since they have now to actually resort to teamplay, combat tactic and choosing targets and situations, like well.. all other classes?

[Zetara]

I agree really that the only thing an operative needs changing is the knockdown.

 

It's common sense and anyone trying to deny the following is just lacking in intelligence.

 

They are a burst class, they are supposed to do massive masive burst damage. Yes that should include almost all your health.

 

IF YOU WERE TO STAND STILL AND LET THEM DO IT.

 

Now the issue is the current knockdown/stun doesn't allow you to have any choice in the matter. Yes IA should kill you if he gets in your face and fires off all his abilities. Yes he should. Don't try to deny it, it's his job. Any class should die if someone stands there and lets all the abilities hit. I'm a BH. If you stand there and I get all my rotations off, you will die. End of story. If I stand in front of a Sith and he sends his lightning to me and I do nothing, I will die.

 

However, the knockdown doesn't allow for you to have any chance. This is the issue. If you had a chance, you could react and do something but when you're stunned for as long as you are considering their damage, then you don't have much change. Therefore the knockdown faceplant taking forever to get up is what needs to be sorted out. Having that as it's working at the moment, is just like me standing in front of another class and saying 'hai gais.... unload on me and kill me plz!' and if they sorted out the knockdown and the stuns then the IA would have to use a little more skill to get their kills off rather than being able to do it comfortably if they see someone on their own. They'd open up, do their massive damage, and with no damage tha they can do after that, the other class has a chance to get his rotations off on a weak class before the IA can finish the job, or the IA gets his other attacks in first to finish the job against an opponent that can fight back, but due to the squishyness of the IA, the odds are more even as one player has full health that goes down super fast with not much DPS to give out, and the other player has low health, but a lot of DPS to dish out to a squishy opponent.

 

That's what I think anyway.

 

TL;DR Bite me, I have no time for kids who come to a forum where people write things, who have no intention of reading anything. You can't be constructive with troll posts or ignorant 'I'm not reading that' and therefore don't belong here.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Zetara

[Dravinian]

Even if they do go around nerfing one class after another, what is the problem?

 

All classes probably have one aspect or another that is imbalanced in the context of the game.

 

So it gets fixed.

 

Man up.

[Dravinian]

I agree really that the only thing an operative needs changing is the knockdown.

 

It's common sense and anyone trying to deny the following is just lacking in intelligence.

 

They are a burst class, they are supposed to do massive masive burst damage. Yes that should include almost all your health.

 

IF YOU WERE TO STAND STILL AND LET THEM DO IT.

 

Now the issue is the current knockdown/stun doesn't allow you to have any choice in the matter. Yes IA should kill you if he gets in your face and fires off all his abilities. Yes he should. Don't try to deny it, it's his job. Any class should die if someone stands there and lets all the abilities hit. I'm a BH. If you stand there and I get all my rotations off, you will die. End of story. If I stand in front of a Sith and he sends his lightning to me and I do nothing, I will die.

 

However, the knockdown doesn't allow for you to have any chance. This is the issue. If you had a chance, you could react and do something but when you're stunned for as long as you are considering their damage, then you don't have much change. Therefore the knockdown faceplant taking forever to get up is what needs to be sorted out. Having that as it's working at the moment, is just like me standing in front of another class and saying 'hai gais.... unload on me and kill me plz!' and if they sorted out the knockdown and the stuns then the IA would have to use a little more skill to get their kills off rather than being able to do it comfortably if they see someone on their own. They'd open up, do their massive damage, and with no damage tha they can do after that, the other class has a chance to get his rotations off on a weak class before the IA can finish the job, or the IA gets his other attacks in first to finish the job against an opponent that can fight back, but due to the squishyness of the IA, the odds are more even as one player has full health that goes down super fast with not much DPS to give out, and the other player has low health, but a lot of DPS to dish out to a squishy opponent.

 

That's what I think anyway.

 

TL;DR Bite me, I have no time for kids who come to a forum where people write things, who have no intention of reading anything. You can't be constructive with troll posts or ignorant 'I'm not reading that' and therefore don't belong here.

 

Sorry how is the Imperial Agent's job any different to say...the marauder's job, or the sith assassins job (Given that their title is even closer to the description) or how about the Sniper's job?

 

You singling out the Imperial Agent as if THIS class was somehow different to all the others and is therefore justified in having massive burst damage.

 

You keep saying it like it is a fact, as if it was a given.

 

Prove it.

 

How is the Imperial Agent Operative any more squishy than say the Sith Assassin, or the Sniper?

[cylak]

Nerfing does not ruin games.

 

Unnecessary nerfing does.

 

Both nerfing and boosting have the same effect, to bring a class in line with the others.

 

Boosting 15 AC's to match the 1AC which is ahead would mean far more testing required before knowing if it resolved the imbalance.

 

 

And I have yet to see anything to show that BW nerfed Ops due to whines rather than the data which they have available to them. Claiming to know why they made their decision just makes you look desperate to support your point of view.

 

Desperate, you are aware i play a healing SORC right? you are aware of that arent you?

 

nerfing a class so a healers dot outheals its damage will change this game into rift, were clerics and mages that healed were like gods. You sir are a fool to think nerfs are good

[KorwinOfAmber]

Yes IA should kill you if he gets in your face and fires off all his abilities. Yes he should. Don't try to deny it, it's his job. Any class should die if someone stands there and lets all the abilities hit. I'm a BH. If you stand there and I get all my rotations off, you will die. End of story. If I stand in front of a Sith and he sends his lightning to me and I do nothing, I will die.

 

I absolutely disagree here. While all classes have their roles its not as simple as - this class kill this class always, while always getting killed by that class.

 

The pvp is designed and balanced that way that player skill actually matters and there are many possibilities and actions that player can take to turn the outcome of combat - using LoS, using interupts right, using his CC in proper moment, kiting and trying to get behind enemy back e.t.c.

 

Outcome of every battle should not be solely decided by player class, gear and cooldowns. While its harder for one class to kill other while easy the third - the outcome still should be ultimately decided by player skill.

 

And for most classes it works that way. A good player can turn the flow of combat in his advantage no matter what class he plays and who he faces.

 

Thats why such mechanics as getting to stun enemy and kill him without him having chance to oppose should not exist, at all.

 

And dont give me **** about OPs being useless apart from that opening and initial attack - thats ********, and good OP can stand their ground against any class, even without stealth and opening. The combat is not as simple as spamming your abilities in proper rotation and hoping for the win.

[Dravinian]

Desperate, you are aware i play a healing SORC right? you are aware of that arent you?

 

nerfing a class so a healers dot outheals its damage will change this game into rift, were clerics and mages that healed were like gods. You sir are a fool to think nerfs are good

 

Don't be insane.

 

Of course nerfs are good where they are needed.

 

If one class is unkillable and can kill every other class, regardless of how badly they are played, then that class needs to be fixed and the only reliable way to do that is to nerf some of that classes abilities.

 

Anyone who thinks that isn't required sometimes is clearly delusional.

[cylak]

^ do not fret young padawans. Assassins/shadow will be next cause they can stealth, BH for tracer missles, Juggs for massive aoes, and sorc/sage bubbles just to name a few.

 

Once 1 class goes down this path they all follow suit. Anyone who has played Mmo's for more than 10 years knows this. Especially if u played warhammer, we have the same devs.

 

excatly mate, then healing classes will heal to much because every dps has been nerfed to the ground.

 

 

As i said the devs need to speak to the major guilds and ask for there honest opinioms of class balance, you will find alot will say what i have said.

[NommNomm]

i play an imp op and am sorry but as far as overpowered goes they are not like the original post says we are useless out of stealth you survive our initial attacks and i can guarantee 8/10 times you will then win against us we have 0% survivability and die faster than healers when they have no shield on...oh and as far as assisting the team our job is to take out the long ranged classes and healers that hang out at back 1v1 thats what we are good at

[KorwinOfAmber]

Desperate, you are aware i play a healing SORC right? you are aware of that arent you?

 

nerfing a class so a healers dot outheals its damage will change this game into rift, were clerics and mages that healed were like gods. You sir are a fool to think nerfs are good

 

Considering OP still have plenty of abilities out of stealth hitting for more then 3k, and i know firsthand about playing healing Sorc - what you say is ******** and a simple attempt to downplay class performance to make it look as if the "kill withing a stun" is the only thing going for the class. Not to forget that Operative is... healer himself!

[cylak]

Don't be insane.

 

Of course nerfs are good where they are needed.

 

If one class is unkillable and can kill every other class, regardless of how badly they are played, then that class needs to be fixed and the only reliable way to do that is to nerf some of that classes abilities.

 

Anyone who thinks that isn't required sometimes is clearly delusional.

 

 

when the nerf bat hits all classes the bad players cry about, all healing classes will become gods, start rolling one now/.

[Dravinian]

i play an imp op and am sorry but as far as overpowered goes they are not like the original post says we are useless out of stealth you survive our initial attacks and i can guarantee 8/10 times you will then win against us we have 0% survivability and die faster than healers when they have no shield on...oh and as far as assisting the team our job is to take out the long ranged classes and healers that hang out at back 1v1 thats what we are good at

 

Then show us.

 

Give us DATA and INFORMATION that proves you are more squishy than AND give out less sustained damage than other classes.

 

Just claiming this as a justification is not good enough.

[Halofax]

The nerf is equalizing the classes damage to the other burst class (assassin).

 

there is no problem with what is happening.

[Dravinian]

when the nerf bat hits all classes the bad players cry about, all healing classes will become gods, start rolling one now/.

 

Healing already has a 30% debuff and plays very little role in PvP Warzones.

 

I play a healing class, I have a damage spec for PvP, pointless having otherwise. This isn't "other games".....I can think of no other game that put a healing debuff on every single player the moment they enter combat.

[KorwinOfAmber]

The nerf is equalizing the classes damage to the other burst class (assassin).

 

there is no problem with what is happening.

 

In before "but assassin is a tank!" - operative is a healer. If both decide to spec entirely in DPS tree, both are equally gimped.

[cylak]

Then show us.

 

Give us DATA and INFORMATION that proves you are more squishy than AND give out less sustained damage than other classes.

 

Just claiming this as a justification is not good enough.

 

 

you are aware OPS have a stam bar right, and that stam bar goes down very fast, and the things they use to get it back have decent timers, you survive the burst you win the fight, learn to counter a class, dont beg the devs to nerf a class so you can beat it, become a better player.