Population balance. Responsibility is yours.

[CommandoPower]

Even Dark Age of Camelot with 3 factions had this problem to an extent. Sometimes areas were dead with the current high population realm roaming in raid groups. What's the point if your just going to get zerged into the ground?

 

People need to understand, you make a choice. If your on the high population faction, you'll get your E-peen satisfying easy rolls. However you'll also have less fighting in general and this increases the higher the imbalance gets. YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

 

Read this paragraph! tl;dr friendly part 1!

So lets look at this shall we? You likely say that you wish to play X side because it's better for you. That's fair. You made your choice and it's a valid one that should not be punished, same as republic. HOWEVER, until things changed your still part of the problem. Don't sit there and whine and refuse to do anything about it. Re-roll for better fighting or choose to sit there and wait and hope it's fixed.

 

 

Lets look at ideas that have been tossed around throughout MMORPG history.

 

 

1. Buff the underpopulated realm.

 

A good solution to a problem that WOULD result in more fighting. However the overpopulated realm rages how unfair it is that people are stronger than them. It's of course perfectly fair for them to roll the other side with 2:1 numbers to all but a few on that side.

 

This also makes for poor competitive gameplay. It's just not as fun fair or not to fight raid boss players.

 

2. Add helper NPC's.

 

Another good fix, done properly it gives the underdogs a fighting chance, it can be adjusted at will, and it still keeps the underpopulated side at a disadvantage. This is my personal favorite idea.

 

This is what was originally intended for Warhammer Online. Dogs of War was the name before they scrapped the idea. A very outspoken part of the community (WOW PVP'rs and people who enjoy outnumbering their foes from what I could see) thought it would be unfair, and EA also didn't seem to like it, so the idea was killed.

 

3. Faction Population limits per server so that there is a limit to a side being outnumbered.

 

A good idea in theory but this can make it difficult for people to play together. Also you end up in ques on what might have originally been a lower populated server when server pop fluctuates.

 

Pretty universally disliked and even with this present it has to be pretty restrictive to keep population reasonably balanced.

 

4. Increase rewards for the underpopulated side.

 

A low impact fix, this DOES help with sever population imbalance. However it doesn't help much. Giving people slightly bigger rewards doesn't make them want to switch sides unless they are on the fence. Easy roll lamers and people who honestly like a side will not switch.

 

 

 

Read the following: tl;dr friendly part 2!

Essentially every idea either has problems, low impact, or is horribly fought by the community that plays the overpopulated side. Direct player buffing also takes away from the feeling of balanced PVP and it's just not as fun to fight buffed players you know can own you 1 on 1 regardless of skill. Just ask the lowbies who fought 50's.

 

Games need to do something that their CEO's and their parent companies will not let them do: take a risk. Enforce population imbalance via help for the underpopulated side. My recommendation is helper NPC's, it's the most effective without making enemy players seem ridiculously strong.

 

 

But until then, as a player on the overpopulated side, it's your responsibility. No ands, ifs, or buts. Make your choice.

[DarthNemis]

This needs to be made into a sticky. This is a brilliant post. Love the warhammer idea Dog of war that got killed. Also what about free faction changes to the weaker side? and not allowing faction changes to the higher pop side.

[myndenx]

My suggestion is to give the republic a lot more of cool alien races, after all the empire is human centric so their alien races should be few. Races like Togruta, Cathar etc. would encourage a lot of people to roll republic, because they are alien races that people like, and frankly they´re already ingame.

 

Alongside this, Bioware could offer some bonus experience or better yet, higher drop chance for commendations/items etc. That way the min/maxers that want to gear fast will change to the republic side.

 

In the long run however, Bioware has to add new quests and content republic-side that is interesting for all kind of players. This usually means less blatantly good/evil choices and more mass effect like moral dilemmas.

 

They also need to focus on creating good looking gear for the republic, because the appearance of your character is a very big deal for many people, and the reason why they chooose one side over the other. If the jedi knight looked way cooler in their 50 armor than the sith warrior, you can bet people would switch.

[EwoksKing]

I support this, i just rerolled an operative because my scoundrel's cowboy look was way uglier than my rifle wearing cyborg chick.

[MBirkhofer]

I wonder if they can use the already in game mechanic of companions to help with world pvp population imbalance.

 

If for Ilum warzone area, companion check is not op based, but area or zone based.

 

If rep op groups could keep all their companions out when out numbered, I think that would go a long way in evening things out.

[Vlacke]

I wonder if they can use the already in game mechanic of companions to help with world pvp population imbalance.

 

If for Ilum warzone area, companion check is not op based, but area or zone based.

 

If rep op groups could keep all their companions out when out numbered, I think that would go a long way in evening things out.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if something like this eventually happens.

 

Oh and...

 

Cool exclusive race, nice looking gear, aesthetics only basically would help significantly.

 

Maybe Togruta would be the best choice if it were made Republic exclusive because of it's looks.

Also it wouldn't hurt the lore much if it were done.

 

Togruta - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Togruta

 

It would definitely increase the popularity of the faction, and lets be honest, as things are now the Empire has 3 exclusive races to choose from while the Republic has only two, with Miraluka and Mirialan don't quite cut it.

[LastDarkness]

I get the distinct feeling how Bioware is handling the game is that the projections they did predicted everyone was going to go Republic and Empire was going to be underpopulated because many of the "Aethetics" and other options are already present for the Empire.

 

Backfire of Epic proportions maybe?

 

 

 

I know for one, since Biowares stance on not punishing exploiters. That after the game is more stable some patchs down the line and they open a fresh server im leaving mine and starting over.

On my server there were level 50 Battlemasters before the game even launched due to population imbalances making farming WZ's last only 2 minutes.

[CommandoPower]

I get the distinct feeling how Bioware is handling the game is that the projections they did predicted everyone was going to go Republic and Empire was going to be underpopulated because many of the "Aethetics" and other options are already present for the Empire.

 

Backfire of Epic proportions maybe?

 

 

 

I know for one, since Biowares stance on not punishing exploiters. That after the game is more stable some patchs down the line and they open a fresh server im leaving mine and starting over.

On my server there were level 50 Battlemasters before the game even launched due to population imbalances making farming WZ's last only 2 minutes.

 

There is hope, OPs/scoundrels are getting nerfed. Lets keep up the pressure on high end PVP gear and see if we can't get it lightened a bit so that people are not just rolling rookies so easily. Removing expertise from it alone would be fine and makes the PVP gear still worse than PVE gear. (it's easier to get generally so that makes sense anyways.)

Edited January 21, 2012 by CommandoPower

[LastDarkness]

There is hope, OPs/scoundrels are getting nerfed. Lets keep up the pressure on high end PVP gear and see if we can't get it lightened a bit so that people are not just rolling rookies so easily. Removing expertise from it alone would be fine and makes the PVP gear still worse than PVE gear. (it's easier to get generally so that makes sense anyways.)

 

I dont agree on removing expertise. You need to give players a reason to grind and to gear up at high end. There would be little point to pvp gear without it.

 

I have a Scoundrel as one of my 8 characters (My Agent is a Sniper) and feel the nerf was too fast and overdone. It negates a 2 point tier 6 talent into uselessness, and reduces pve damage by -20% on a class that didnt do alot of sustained dps in pve to begin with.

 

Most of the problem with the class and other was buff stacking to riduclous levels. (Ive seen Jedi Sweeps breaking 10k damage in a single attack they can do as often as the Op/Sco.)

 

They needed to look at the number after they fixed buff stacking as this as is a serius nerf to the class. If you dont play one you dont understand, thats all they had.

 

Wheres the Sorc/Sage Nerf? The Grav Round/Tracer missle nerf? If some class is regularly breaking 500k damage easily in pvp by killing people in the same time as a Op/Sco at range with better defenses and no one is calling foul or Bioware is not noticing from their data I have lost all faith in them for SWTOR, if this is how it is maybe they should have just stuck with what they did best. Single player games.

 

Im giving them 3 months, before I make my deicion to cancel or not and move on. Guild Wars 2 looks exciting and of course mass effect 3 and maybe diablo 3 will be out by then as well.

 

Id feel a little more reassured if biowares community managers were making more of a effeort to do their jobs and communicate more with the community, instead of keeping us all in the dark making us feel like they dont care.

[CommandoPower]

I dont agree on removing expertise. You need to give players a reason to grind and to gear up at high end. There would be little point to pvp gear without it.

 

That's a WOW mentality. Given good game play PVP sustains itself far longer than PVE without new content. Gear is the cheap and easy way out to extend the life of PVP if your game play is not there. But it also starts the vicious cycle of gear/ungeared and the need for additional levels of progression later.

 

In all honesty, for PVP, it does more harm than it does good and scares away a good number of players who don't feel like getting owned for 3 months regardless of skill level just to be competitive.

 

But this is off topic really.

 

I have a Scoundrel as one of my 8 characters...*patch notes nerf rant*

 

1. That is your opinion. Mine differs.

2. It was mentioned anecdotally. Take your discussion to one of the many threads dedicated to the need or lack of need for the nerf. This is not the place.

 

Wheres the Sorc/Sage Nerf? The Grav Round/Tracer missle nerf?

 

I'm pretty sure they get their turn soon. But that speculation is best saved for other threads.

 

If some class is *rage, rage, rage, bioware insult, rage

 

Again there are other threads to discuss your obviously, ahem, passionate opinions. Threads dedicated to this one. You are completely off topic on this one however.

 

Im giving them 3 months, before I make my deicion to cancel or not and move on. Guild Wars 2 looks exciting and of course mass effect 3 and maybe diablo 3 will be out by then as well.

 

Id feel a little more reassured if biowares community managers were making more of a effeort to do their jobs and communicate more with the community, instead of keeping us all in the dark making us feel like they dont care.

 

Ok...so you're attempting sound like a reasonably mature, if somewhat uninformed, gamer and giving the game a reasonable amount of time. However your veiled threat underneath pretty much negates that.

 

Also, you plainly do not understand the exact position they are in with information and community responses. Until you have quite a bit more experience watching and understanding MMORPG forums and the dev/moderator interactions and burdens I would lurk a bit more in regard to that subject.

 

 

Their job is a no win situation is such a cess pool of a forums. These forums are not the worst I've ever seen, but they are far far FAR from the friendliest. Reasonable mod/dev interaction would be utterly torn asunder here and used as fuel for the fire regardless of how careful and well intentioned they are.

Edited January 21, 2012 by CommandoPower

[CommandoPower]

Now if you don't mind, leave your reply and lets be done with this de-rail and try to keep this thread on track for what it is about: population imbalance.

 

There are tons of threads across the forums right now arguing your issues you can participate in. Even though I am grateful for the bump, I ask you to take that discussion to threads where it is more appropriate material.

[ironmb]

Bioware wont listen, its full of PVE failures who think they know how to make PVP.

[Doxxs]

and

 

Only YOU can prevent forest fires.

[KiranK]

1) Balance animation/delay issues of mirrored classes. There's no excuse for having one class cast faster or apply damage quicker than its mirror. It neither makes sense nor is it fair.

 

2) Allow cross server transfers. Make going from Empire to Republic cheaper than going Republic to Empire. Hell, you can ban going Rep to Imp on servers with a horrible population skew, but people MUST be allowed to switch with gear and character in tact. You won't get many of them to change otherwise.

 

3) Bonus rewards for the underpopulated realm. Namely exp/valor/commendations. It's hard enough to grind gear as the underdogs as it is. PvP gear is especially painful. Giving us bonus WZ commendations helps take some of the burden off of our shoulders. Do not penalize the Empire. Reward the Republic.

 

Those are the three biggest things I can see that will help balance the population. You might not get it 50/50, but I'll take 60/40 over 90/10 any day.

[CommandoPower]

1) Balance animation/delay issues of mirrored classes. There's no excuse for having one class cast faster or apply damage quicker than its mirror. It neither makes sense nor is it fair.

 

2) Allow cross server transfers. Make going from Empire to Republic cheaper than going Republic to Empire. Hell, you can ban going Rep to Imp on servers with a horrible population skew, but people MUST be allowed to switch with gear and character in tact. You won't get many of them to change otherwise.

 

3) Bonus rewards for the underpopulated realm. Namely exp/valor/commendations. It's hard enough to grind gear as the underdogs as it is. PvP gear is especially painful. Giving us bonus WZ commendations helps take some of the burden off of our shoulders. Do not penalize the Empire. Reward the Republic.

 

Those are the three biggest things I can see that will help balance the population. You might not get it 50/50, but I'll take 60/40 over 90/10 any day.

 

#1 and #2 are again for different threads and in all honesty I believe faction animation imbalance is only a minor contributor.

 

 

#3 I've covered in the OP, this does indeed help. However the amount of help it provides is minor.

 

Bioware wont listen, its full of PVE failures who think they know how to make PVP.

 

In fairness PVP is not the focus of this game. It is an offshoot. I understood that there WOULD be PVP in this game and it would be cool. However I also understood it was a PVE focused game.

 

Expecting it to have first class PVP is altogether unfair and you have set yourself up for failure with that expectation.

 

 

Truthfully though, they did some pretty decent PVP. It's not bad, it just needs more space to roam, population balancing tools, and some tweaks.

Edited January 21, 2012 by CommandoPower

[teyngodown]

In fairness PVP is not the focus of this game. It is an offshoot. I understood that there WOULD be PVP in this game and it would be cool. However I also understood it was a PVE focused game.

 

PVP may not be YOUR focus but it is alot of peoples. I don't want to farm a scripted AI to get the high end gear just to compete in pvp. I want my gear separate from pve gear so that the raid crews don't just wander in a warzone and stomp all the longtime pvpers simply from having better gear.

[CommandoPower]

PVP may not be YOUR focus but it is alot of peoples. I don't want to farm a scripted AI to get the high end gear just to compete in pvp. I want my gear separate from pve gear so that the raid crews don't just wander in a warzone and stomp all the longtime pvpers simply from having better gear.

 

Read again, it has nothing to do with my preferences, which btw ARE PVP. THE GAME is PVE focused with PVP strapped on. That's been the plan from the beginning. I've never believed otherwise for any reason.

 

I also think that gear advantages are lame and that the best gear should only have a moderate advantage at best on normal gear.

 

 

 

Try assuming less. Then you won't make a, well you know how it goes.

 

.

Edited January 22, 2012 by CommandoPower

[DarthNemis]

PVP may not be YOUR focus but it is alot of peoples. I don't want to farm a scripted AI to get the high end gear just to compete in pvp. I want my gear separate from pve gear so that the raid crews don't just wander in a warzone and stomp all the longtime pvpers simply from having better gear.

 

I dont mind npcs being in my PVP so long as it helps out the population balance. Hey League of Legends is the biggest type of pvp game their is, and they got tons of npc waves.

[LastDarkness]

Now if you don't mind, leave your reply and lets be done with this de-rail and try to keep this thread on track for what it is about: population imbalance.

 

There are tons of threads across the forums right now arguing your issues you can participate in. Even though I am grateful for the bump, I ask you to take that discussion to threads where it is more appropriate material.

 

Valid points indeed, I made the mistake to belive the context of my opinions was important.

 

I dont agree on the WoW mindset though, thats too narrowmind its a general mmo mindset found in pretty much anyone you can name. Wow is simply the most easily generalised.

 

But speaking of WoW I cant help but feel if they did something like the pvp npcs we would just have origenal Alterac Valley all over again. I hope bioware would at least view what worked and didnt and take that into consideration.

 

The Faction imbalance, is a no-win situation since its differant degrees and magnitudes server to server and on some even in reverse. So unless they make a adjustment per server they can never fix this issue overall. Add to the fact that many of the Empire classes as already common knowledge function in superior ways to their Republic mirrors. The empire has 3 unique races while the rep has 2 and in general most of the empire gear is more aestheticaly pleasing then orange armor and brown robes.

 

I restate my opinion Bioware seems to have intended Empire to appeal more to players. If even by accident, the game even rewarded them more for being on the overpopulated realm.

 

Also, you plainly do not understand the exact position they are in with information and community responses. Until you have quite a bit more experience watching and understanding MMORPG forums and the dev/moderator interactions and burdens I would lurk a bit more in regard to that subject.

 

So, your telling me the people they hired whos entire jobs are to communicate with the community. Should NOT do anything resembling that.

Care to rephrase that?

 

You prevent a pot from boiling over by taking a simple moment to watch it and stir its contents occasionaly instead of leaving it alone afraid of what may happen if you do anything to it.

Edited January 22, 2012 by LastDarkness