big_aug Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) This will be the new operative strategy. I just put it together really quickly, so I might be off on one or two things with cool downs. GOOD operatives will still destroy people. Another nerf will most likely follow, and so I've still cancelled Hidden Strike (w/ Acid blade; w/o Jarring strike) Backstab (w/ Acid blade) Root (this depends on the player. Might want to root after hidden strike for force users.) Shiv Debilitate (4s stun) Lacerate Lacerate Backstab (w/ Acid blade; Depending on cooldown/positioning, overload shot instead if necessary) Flashbang (8s CC - breaks on dmg) Heal Heal Lacerate Lacerate Obviously tweak it when necessary. You may not need to use debilitate until later on after another shiv, etc. Attack order might vary, would take a day or two to figure out what works best. It's not going to be as obvious that Operatives are hitting people as it was before. They aren't goign to be faceplaning for 3 seconds and immediately poppping knockback. It will be much more difficult for people to point us out in group battles. That's what I'd do at least. I wouldn't take Jarring STrike for a 1.5s stun. No way. They should remove it or tweak it. Edited January 21, 2012 by big_aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordekaiserr Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Now nerf guardians/juggernauts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obie_Wan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The thing that you need to realize is I dont lose to sors, but if my gaming friend had full champion gear I would lose to him because we are both top players in every game we play together, You call me bad when you dont know me at all p much every mmo/moba(notLoL) I try to play im good enough to play with competitive players son i was a beast before i even had the game installed All this bragging and the whining about obvious things that good Operatives/Scoundrels don't have trouble with doesn't add up. I'm not going to bother to dethrone your delusions of grandeur there. Fact is, we're talking facts here. Good Operatives/Scoundrels already have the tools even without the openers to do the job they need to do. That's why the prominent ones even went out to the public to say they're too good. They can even eat tanks for lunch. The fact you're losing to Sorcs at all is clue enough that you're pretty far down the totem pole. I don't need to know you personally to come to that conclusion when you're shooting yourself in the foot like that. I'm sure you're a real beast against autistic, or mentally handicapped children below the age of 10, but that has no bearing on this game. Either observe how talented Operative/Scoundrel play in PVP, or migrate to the next bursty class which is Assassin/Shadows, Gunslingers/Snipers. Just don't expect one push of a button to guarantee you a win for most of your fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dronp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Eh I was expecting a nerf so Im not suprised. Burst stealth classes always get nerfed cause players with crap gear dont like to be 3 shotted. Its funny how theres no sorc nerf in sight tho...wait half the imps are sorcs while smugglers are the least played class how can I forget. They'll probably get more buffs before that happens along with a patch to further buff Illum valor gains for zergs. /inbefore 100 flames from sorcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawaJedifivefour Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ******** call by Bioware. I knew it was coming, but didn't think they would go all out and stomp the concealment spec out of existence... Nerf the Hidden strike stuff or nerf Acid Blade, but not both. Now that we have a 50s bracket, I can still do top 1-3 damage in a Warzone, but I have not killed anyone within the knockdown. Don't think it's possible on 50s with any Expertise. And that is fine by me. I actually recently switched to Leathality, because I was getting bored with the normal Stealther routine. But I'll be honest, outside of PvE, Leathality is an odd tree to play. And if that is the route I'm going to be forced to go, there definitely needs to be something added to the class. If you make such a drastic nerf, you have to compensate somewhere else. The patch notes were a good/bad thing to see for me. Good because I was starting to get sick of seeing Operatives and Smugglers everywhere I went. I liked when we had a low population. The bad? Read above: Adding a quick story to all of this relating to this game being new and people just not understanding other classes they either just plain haven't played or haven't played to a level where the class comes into it's own. My Buddy is a Juggy and he was doing nothing but ************ and crying everyday in vent about Ops/Smugs, so I took him aside and dueled with him for about 20-30 minutes. At first I would destroy him and he would swear up a storm, then he finally grasped the mechanics of the Operative and understood what they do, when they do it, and why they do it that way. He hasn't died to an Op/Smug since.... So yes we needed to be toned down...not have an entire tree become useless. But at the same time as good as people like to think they are with their L33T gaming skillz, alot of it comes down to a simple L2P issue. The WoWbabies need to grow up and become men. -New Game - New Start- just because crying for nerfs is all you've ever known since your mmo birth, doesn't mean it was the right way to go about handling your lack of skill. You turned WoW into a mess and a wierd easy mode freak show, don't ruin this one too please. Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeeFiFoFum Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Where are people reading this nerf, going through patch notes..? Are new ones posted somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamir Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The ignorance here is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scather Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Eh what got nerfed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilxain Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Once the nerfs start its a free for all on all the classes. And, since the PTR makes you level a toon from 1 - 50 to test it; these nerfs aren't getting properly tested so they are very likely improperly tuned GG (not saying they are too much or too little, just that they aren't really being tested until they hit live). Ops nerfs today your class tomorrow grats. Since these nerfs aren't being tested properly they should have done something more gradual. Edited January 21, 2012 by Nilxain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandoPower Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The sad part is most of these scoundrels/ops don't realize that their most powerful PVP spec isn't even the popular 3 shot spec... You should do a little research and see what a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel can do in a warzone... Putting up dmg and kill numbers far above any other class... But because so much noise was made about 3 shotting people very few of the FOTM rerollers have even tried Dirty Fighting or its Operative equivalent. HAHA, I spec'd dirty fighting on my scoundrel. Ops were complete BS because they popped people from stealth and people had no way out, no chance to fight back, no way to survive. Even if they did pop their CC breaker they just got vanished on and likely popped on AGAIN. Yet, when placed in equivalent levels/gear, my Dirty Fighting scoundrel has overall more impact on the battle. HOWEVER, I can be shut down. Ops really couldn't be with decent play, timing, and target selection. Not good mind you, decent. operatives dont have a ranged slow, we have a dot, a aoe grenade, and our auto attacks we cant kill someone with these abilities unless they have like 10% health Im not saying we need everyhting but when our burst gets normalized and is on par with a lot of other classes we will still be the most kiteable/squishy classes in the game Personally I am planning to switch over to my assassin so i am actually useful other then locking down/maybe killing 1 person You likely did a good amount of damage to make them run, staying within range to land those last few needed shots should be easy enough. If they ran really early and you didn't get to burst open on them? Guess what, they would have gotten away or maybe even killed you anyways. Though personally vs force sprint? That crap needs at least 1 minute plus cool down. There is no down side to using it right now at all. There should be with how good it is. I think that's more of a force sprint issue than an operative issue. a scrapper specced scoundrel cannot get any talent that allows them to remove force users dots i am not a healer please dont tell me to somehow get talents deep in the tree If you really think that DOT's prevent you from vanishing as an ops or scoundrel you are a bad bad player who doesn't know their class. Your 3 second dodge buffs wipes DOTs from you as an operative of ANY spec. I use the equivalent on my dirty fighting scoundrel all the time and vanish no problem with DOTs on me. It's a passive talent given to all scoundrels and operatives. I figured it out the first time I dotted an operative/scoundrel and he vanished on me and didn't show back up. What's your excuse? Basically youre saying that if I time a skill perfectly I can win otherwise I lose, and all he needs t do is hope that i dont time it perfectly and then he wins thats not balanced Welcome to what I have to do with every class I play. End result is no, I don't always do it perfectly but you don't need to. You just need to be quick vs tracer/grav spam idiot slow reaction times. They could remove acid blade and hidden strike completly, i would still play the class. get some clue, and remove your ignorance please. what REALLY annoys me, is that there is no "nerf" to BHs/troppers with their ranged 1 button mashing ******** where they do lots of more dmg than every OP/scoundrel and at range... its just stupid, i feel like i am at WoW all over again balance patch wise. I'm sure both them and sorc/sage are next on the list haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well if this game was about dueling ide agree, but it isnt. The operatives roll was to hit the enemy hard and weaken them. They have no other utility. Now that they are bursting the same as assassins and have less sustained dps, and no utility, there is no point in playing one. Assassins are supeior in every way. Enjoy you commando killing goals in 2012, they will own the turret and doors maps. None of that is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If it is too much (which it isn't) this is what happens when you respond to balancing calls with insults and "L2P" type rage instead of getting involved in the conversation in a constructive way. Should have been cooperative when you had the chance..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The sad part is most of these scoundrels/ops don't realize that their most powerful PVP spec isn't even the popular 3 shot spec... You should do a little research and see what a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel can do in a warzone... Putting up dmg and kill numbers far above any other class... But because so much noise was made about 3 shotting people very few of the FOTM rerollers have even tried Dirty Fighting or its Operative equivalent. That is the problem with fotm chasers they never learn how to play their class. With so many abilities and options in this game it is not possible for people who abuse fotm to learn their class. So it is not surprising. Add to that that fotm players don't normally try or know how to play a class for depth and it is not surprising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khayleth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The good operatives will be fine, the bad ones/fotm ones will find something else that's overpowered until it gets nerfed. I'm surprised by all this, I would think that the good operatives would want some way to distinguish themselves between the bad ones since as it stood a bad operative could do just as much burst as a good one with little ability to tell the difference. (Yes I have an operative.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Basically youre saying that if I time a skill perfectly I can win otherwise I lose, and all he needs t do is hope that i dont time it perfectly and then he wins thats not balanced Kind of what operatives and scoundrels used to tell every single class. I hope the irony is not lost on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Gank/grief time over? Time will tell....I ma glad BW did not get intimidated by the hostile elite PvP types in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakks Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There are no logs and no data.. but it's obviously too much! I'll hazard a guess that even if the nerf was renaming an ability, some op would have a long post how it was too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenolf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) You just got IA ganked by Bioware. I know how you feel IAs. Like you were kicked to the ground, and had your life torn away from you. And you are powerless to do anything about it. Man up, the skilled ops aren't complaining. Edited January 21, 2012 by Ravenolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Trololol, you made my day, dude. Haha me too. This who nerf compensation / reparations angle cracks me up. I give them an a for effort but asking for compensation for nerfs indicates people don't understand what nerfs are. I do admire the brass balls of people asking for nerf compensation lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herethos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Guess it is time to delete the operative and reroll a sniper instead and rack in those 4-6k snipeshot crits every 1.5 seconds. =) Edited January 21, 2012 by Herethos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If it is too much (which it isn't) this is what happens when you respond to balancing calls with insults and "L2P" type rage instead of getting involved in the conversation in a constructive way. Should have been cooperative when you had the chance..... This is well said. I never called for nerfs for ops/scoundrels. As an assassin I simply was never a target. That being said I saw all the defensive learn to play comments and few people admitting they knew it was overpowered and needed some tweaking. It is reaping what you sow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) flashbang, vanish, SLOW, grenades, hell even autoattack... are no gapcloser? are you ops really serious? If you flashbang to close the gap, you lose flashbang as a tool for staying alive, crowd controlling other enemies and so fourth. It also has a 10 yard range for ops. Vanish makes you move slower than the sorc, so not a gap closer if the sorc is running away. Grenades? What? They do maybe 1-2k damage. Slow is a 10 yard range and a 15 second cooldown, and force speed negates it when used, allowing the sorc to get back to range. Sorc also has slow, and one of the bread and butter sorc attacks applies a 50% slow for 3 seconds while channeled, on no cooldown for madness and 6 second cooldown for lightning. Autoattack.. yeah ok. Plink away at the shield I guess. I am a 50sorc and a 40op, and I am here to tell you that without the ability to burst them down (which is NOT acceptable in its current form), operatives get CREAMED by sorcs. The burst absolutely needs to be changed, but so does the REST OF THE CLASS. At the moment in pvp they rely on stealth attacks into high burst to get kills. Edited January 22, 2012 by Delekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnimatrixSteel Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Operatives got nerfed? Good! Now they can "L2P." For those that will quit SWTOR just because of a nerf, good too. Rather have players with skill rather than whine about nerfs to their fotm toon. Operatives complain about the lack of a gap close? You've got to be kidding me. Your stealth is the gap closer and you get to decide when, where, and who to pre-emptively strike as the target of your choice. You don't hear marauders complaining and they do just fine. Edited January 22, 2012 by UnimatrixSteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashtwo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I play a merc and it's pretty nice to hear operatives gettin nerfed. There's geared operatives on my server that literally global people, On my merc with 17.5k hp and heavy armor mind you, an operative can flat out kill me in a stunlock if my determination is on cooldown. Been waitin for this for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandoPower Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I am a 50sorc and a 40op, and I am here to tell you that without the ability to burst them down (which is NOT acceptable in its current form), operatives get CREAMED by sorcs. The burst absolutely needs to be changed, but so does the REST OF THE CLASS. At the moment in pvp they rely on stealth attacks into high burst to get kills. Alot of classes get creamed by sorcs. This is why along with BH/Commando you can bet your butt that Sorc's are next on the list. Don't say I didn't tell you so, I'll be here laughing just like I was with the Ops/Scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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