There is no value to being a hard core dedicated crafter in this game

[DarthDegwerks]

There was a person on this thread that mentioned how much time it took to send his crew on missions for a particular resource. He said there usually was only one and had to wait until they came back to get it again. I found that while one was on a mission I could logout and log back in and have another similar yield rate mission to send more crew members on.

[pokota]

Crafting in general is something of a joke.

 

Which would have been fine, in a way, if BioWare hadn't preached otherwise before the game was released. As it stands, I feel like I've been lied to, or at least mislead.

 

I started out from the pre-launch with a dedication to crafting. I leveled slowly because I was always going after resources. I sank hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, into running missions, buying resources, and crafting/reverse engineering until I got multiple purple patterns.

 

Then my first day on Illum, my first day at level 50, I found out that I had been made a fool of by BioWare. I can't tell you what a bitter, disappointed feeling that was, to see much better items than those I'd put so much time and credits into getting, right there on a vendor, and for nothing but a few commendations.

 

It's almost funny. I just wish I wasn't part of the punchline.

 

On top of that, from what I understand, schematics for better items drop in raids, further rendering my efforts futile. A person with no purple patterns, no blue patterns, who hasn't put one bit of effort into advancing his craft, can walk into an instance, get lucky, and walk out able to produce items far more valuable than anything I got from reverse engineering hundreds of pieces. Why, then, is reverse engineering even in the game?

 

Before any of the broskis start, it has nothing to do with raiders getting better gear. They absolute should get better gear. I was in a server top 10 guild on WoW, I did the whole raid thing for years. However, that better gear should come from the actual act of raiding. Instances should drop BoP pieces that are better than crafted gear. But raiding being the only method of being a viable crafter? No, absolutely not. Official guild raiders are going to be the best crafters on the server by default, which is exactly what BioWare promised would not happen. Not because they care, not because they reverse engineered a single piece, but because they raid.

 

The best raid gear should come from raiding, the best PVP gear should come from PVPing, and the best crafted gear should come from ... raiding? That's stupid.

 

Crafting should produce the best pre- and early raid and PVP gear, which is replaced by better BoP gear as people progress down those respective paths. It shouldn't be a joke that is passed over because of commendation vendors, or from raid schematics that invalidate everything beneath them.

 

Yeah, that was a lot longer rant that I intended, but BioWare has lied to its customers. Not everyone is bothered by this, but there are definitely more than a few of us who are disillusioned and saddened about how things turned out. Thanks for nothing, BioWare. You could have at least been honest with us from the start.

[Pureblade]

For those who say that oh the blue and purple mats are SOO plentiful..trying REing to get the "best" recipes at 49/50...you will burn through stacks of them in NO time. Try getting more from missions that yield 2 or 4 pieces at the most and you can only have 2 missions that yield those mats (at MOST) at a time.

 

Further, for the person who said "oh I made 100k from crafting armor..." Really? Thats what you consider profitable? I spent close to 1 MILLION credits to get ONE recipe that was not even the one I wanted due to the random system.

 

Crafted gear is NOT the best or even close to it at any level, particularly at high levels. As several people told me in game today when I asked about the interest level in a piece of 50 Purple Superior armor...I was told "No thanks. I can get better gear by doing daily heroic quests and get 50 purple mods that are better."

 

A robust system would have way less of this commendation, drop and quest loot that is ABUNDANT, because otherwise, why bother having crafters? Oh, we don't want people to have to go to crafters for anything...well why have them then? In Vanguard, for example, even green crafted armor was useful and sold. There was very little quest/drop type armor and gear other than certain examples. The BEST can come from raids...that is fine. However, DEDICATED crafting that involves MASSIVE effort and investment should yield at least gear that is clearly better than anything except mid level raid gear, and at least on par with basic raid gear. CERTAINLY better than pathetically easy to acquire drops, quest and commendation gear.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Pureblade

[ninjashadowdark]

For those who say that oh the blue and purple mats are SOO plentiful..trying REing to get the "best" recipes at 49/50...you will burn through stacks of them in NO time. Try getting more from missions that yield 2 or 4 pieces at the most and you can only have 2 missions that yield those mats (at MOST) at a time.

 

Further, for the person who said "oh I made 100k from crafting armor..." Really? Thats what you consider profitable? I spent close to 1 MILLION credits to get ONE recipe that was not even the one I wanted due to the random system.

 

Crafted gear is NOT the best or even close to it at any level, particularly at high levels. As several people told me in game today when I asked about the interest level in a piece of 50 Purple Superior armor...I was told "No thanks. I can get better gear by doing daily heroic quests and get 50 purple mods that are better."

 

A robust system would have way less of this commendation, drop and quest loot that is ABUNDANT, because otherwise, why bother having crafters? Oh, we don't want people to have to go to crafters for anything...well why have them then? In Vanguard, for example, even green crafted armor was useful and sold. There was very little quest/drop type armor and gear other than certain examples. The BEST can come from raids...that is fine. However, DEDICATED crafting that involves MASSIVE effort and investment should yield at least gear that is clearly better than anything except mid level raid gear, and at least on par with basic raid gear. CERTAINLY better than pathetically easy to acquire drops, quest and commendation gear.

 

quest gear sucks compare to crafting gear sory i lvled though the whole game with my max sytweaving and i could socket it with mods from augment slot mod gear is the same id dont see the difference ..... If you like modding that's your thin i love my crafting i made the best crafted gear for 49 it keeps me alive and has nice stats on it i been on raids and i lived i don't see the problem. The dev said quote this is how the game is made you can get gear though pvp mods or crafted its all good. so no your wrong. Why grind commendations when you can have your gear right away plus i could make mod armor from my sythweaving so its not useless.

Edited January 21, 2012 by ninjashadowdark

[Utani]

From the first day of early game access I quickly levelled up cybertech and managed to make around 2 mill by producing the various earpieces and ship upgrades.

 

I now have around 1/2 mill left after levelling armourtech to 400 and tryng on both cyber and armour to get purple schematics. I think ive done pretty well in that I can now make around 10 purple items.

 

There are a number of problems with the crafting system

 

1). Materials take too long to acquire

2). So there expensive

3). Primary stats of items dont tend to change when going from green->blue->purple they just an extra stat you probably dont really care too much about

4). As mats are expensive you have to price the purples quite high to make it worthwile

5). PVP items are relitivly easy to get vs the price to buy the inferior purples

 

Some suggested changes

 

1). Schematic drops from raids should be single use, i.e. give it to a guild m8 and he can craft only one for you and no more.

2). Raid gear from ops and hm fp's should be better than best crafted, then comes best crafted and then only slightly behind and weighted to pvp is pvp items

3). Increase the primary stats a bit when going up from green->blue->t1 purple->t2 purple

4). Put in set bonuses it for armour sets as its hard enough at the moment to get more than 2 or 3 pieces of the same armour

 

At the moment I am still sending my companions off on missions and making the odd piece to place on the ah.

I'm also looking at the ah for material bargins but mostly the mats to make a purple cost 50k plus its almost not worth it.

So until some changes are made only dabbling in crafting, here's hoping something will be done soon.

[Pureblade]

 

Some suggested changes

 

1). Schematic drops from raids should be single use, i.e. give it to a guild m8 and he can craft only one for you and no more.

2). Raid gear from ops and hm fp's should be better than best crafted, then comes best crafted and then only slightly behind and weighted to pvp is pvp items

3). Increase the primary stats a bit when going up from green->blue->t1 purple->t2 purple

4). Put in set bonuses it for armour sets as its hard enough at the moment to get more than 2 or 3 pieces of the same armour

 

 

My personal thoughts on this..

 

1) No. I think that is a terrible idea. I DO like raid schematics though that yield even better gear for crafting. I do not mind interweaving between raid and crafting. However, some of the raid pieces should ONLY come from crafting from the raid drop schematics so that people NEED the crafters with the skills. Not in lieu of dropped raid gear that would be equal.

 

2) Yes. Exactly how it should work, although I think there should be a marked difference between level 50 dropped recipes that are TWICE RE'd to double purple and basic PvP gear from bags/commendations.

 

3) Yes. 100% agree. All stats should increase when upgraded.

 

4) Yes. 100% agree. I have long wished that crafted sets had set bonuses to make them even better and more desirable.

[Pricia]

100% agreed with the OP. The last robe I made was level 41. I spent about 4 hours and I don't know how many credits RE'ing stuff and managed to get the purple robe I wanted with an augment slot (total luck). Sold another for 30k, without augment slot, which about covers what I paid for mats, considering how many missions I had to run to get the purple mats.

 

The armor that I can craft since have been total garbage. Not even worth the time and mats to make them, considering that, green, they have less stats than the modable armor I'm using that has mods that are 2 levels below. I just don't have the courage to blow tens of thousands of credits for a small chance of getting the item I want in the end, considering I can get similar stats just running missions in a few levels.

 

Totally worthless.

[Elboc]

/signed

 

armstech is just as bad they just don't scale. I spent hundreds of thousands to get a purple crit surge blaster schem only to realize that its complete junk compared to my champion blaster from a PvP bag. It's definitely not worth the time and money invested right now.

[Cemellyn]

As long as Raiding can produce far better gear than what crafting can do. Then there really isn't anything new this game is offering. TBH, its essentially WoW in Starwar setting with space mission elements thrown in and VA. Edited January 22, 2012 by Cemellyn

[TMar]

At least not for Synthweaving. I have to ask, and would LOVE some kind of Developer feedback. Why is crafted armor such garbage? For example, I spend a FORTUNE..and I mean a FORTUNE on REing green level 49 armor recipes.

 

 

TLDR

 

But on this point, did not not take any gathering skills as well? Are you buying mats off the GTN because you're such a hard core crafter that it beneath you to gather your own mats? I mean really what game lets you RE to get mats back while your grinding. Crafting here as by far the cheapest easiest experience in most MMO's.

[SarinTabun]

I'm going to have to agree somewhat with the topic. having artifice maxed the only thing that i sell pretty decently is color crystals with the occasional off hand shield. i've attempted to get the offhand focuses and generator but can't get jack to proc to the next level. one that has been a real pain in the butt has been a particular blue level item that i have made more than 30 times and it still has not procced an upgraded recipe.

 

there needs to be some mechanism in the RE process that actually tracks what you RE as well as increases your proc rate with each unsuccessful RE. that way eventually you get the recipe. even if that background percentage is 1% that means eventually you would have all the recipes you want. as it stands right now theoretically you could possibly never get a particular recipe because the RNG god hates you.

[Leilei]

I faced this situation..Then I learned the purples I want.

 

Currently using Endowment Ion-Charged Power Device[Mastercraft]

 

Gives me :

59 Endurance

50 Cunning

29 Accuracy Rating

69 Critical Rating

40 Surge Rating

 

And that alone made it worth all the damn blues I RE'd

[Nomwich]

I faced this situation..Then I learned the purples I want.

 

Currently using Endowment Ion-Charged Power Device[Mastercraft]

 

Gives me :

59 Endurance

50 Cunning

29 Accuracy Rating

69 Critical Rating

40 Surge Rating

 

And that alone made it worth all the damn blues I RE'd

 

How does the item look? Could I not get similar stats from equally high-level item modifications?

 

Has Bioware responded yet on the crafting situation? Because as of right now, it seems pretty pathetic.

[Leilei]

How does the item look? Could I not get similar stats from equally high-level item modifications?

 

Has Bioware responded yet on the crafting situation? Because as of right now, it seems pretty pathetic.

 

Earpieces dont have mods...

 

And its just about as good as the daily one which is known to be better than what you can get at columi/tionese level.

[Goonbag]

Signed.

 

After much deliberation I have also concluded crafting in TOR is a complete waste of time.

There is no room for dedicated crafters as the DEVs told us in all the lead up...Also, so if I dont Raid and only want to just craft, I get penalised again and left behind? Armstech here...

Edited January 22, 2012 by Goonbag

[Thebigkabooa]

Earpieces dont have mods...

 

And its just about as good as the daily one which is known to be better than what you can get at columi/tionese level.

 

Questionable. While it certainly is nice, you then have to ask yourself; Are you not going to do the dailies anymore?

 

Credits are credits, and the heroics offer mods. Good mods. Like, essentially, you don't ever have to rely on crafters unless they get some pretty awesome mod Recipes from Ops. And frankly, that's sort of the problem with crafting right now, especially with Armstech.

 

It offers nothing that you cannot get elsewhere for less effort, or less out-of-the-way effort.

 

I appreciate that Bioware has crafted a game where dependency on other players is limited; You ~always~ have someone who can compliment your class through companions. Equipment is readily available through quests, and the quests that have nothing you need offer commendations that you can trade for stuff you do need.

 

You can still have independence without removing the option for luxury, and part of the frustation is not only do other people not need us that much, we barely have a need for ourselves added to that.

 

I refuse the buy the Cunning Barrel from Daily Commendations out of principle.

 

This if my rifle! There are many others like it but this one is mine!

[Monodin]

I agree with most of what the OP said. As an armormech powertech, I reverse engineered the green level 49 legs and gloves to get the blue versions, and then the grind began: it took me over 200 REs on the legs and 50+ on the gloves to proc a single recipe. Fortunately, however, I got the redoubt gloves and the veracity legs.

 

Now the upside: After a couple of elusive crafting crits and with some epic mods, I've been able to keep these items with me through raids and heroics. Granted, that could change if I got lucky with drops, but I think, as level 49 epics, they've done what could have been expected: enabled me to tank stuff to the point where I can get upgrades.

 

It might have been nice to have had level 50 items to RE, and it would be great if procced recipes would, as the OP suggested, not just gain a new (possibly useless) stat. That said, I enjoy wearing gear I've made.

 

Could I have done without these items? Yes.

How much did it cost me? Several times more than I have ever had at a single time.

Why am I keeping the skill? To mastercraft my Rakata BOPs.

Was it worth it? Maybe-sure-why-not: I don't play games to find meaning in my life.

[Drakenborg]

Be very grateful that you have the rakata recipes at all.

I have 400 Armstech and all i get are moddable weapons of 48 level and even Centurion guns are better than them (both for pve and pvp).

I did a bunch of HMs and Ops and never seen an Armstech epic pattern drop (loads of other proff patterns tho, at least 1 per HM and few in each Ops).

[Pureblade]

TLDR

 

But on this point, did not not take any gathering skills as well? Are you buying mats off the GTN because you're such a hard core crafter that it beneath you to gather your own mats? I mean really what game lets you RE to get mats back while your grinding. Crafting here as by far the cheapest easiest experience in most MMO's.

 

Where did I say I don't have gathering skills? In fact, if you read my post, I am relatively certain that I said that I can only get the metal I need from missions that come ONE or TWO at a time at MOST, and give 2 or 4 pieces per mission. When you need 6 pieces of metal and 12 greens PER RE, and 1 recipe takes 25 REs to get...you CANNOT gather all of your own supplies.

 

Also, when I RE a first level purple to try and get the second tier purple, out of 8 green crystal, 4 or 6 green artifacts, 4 cortosis, 6 ciridium and 4 mandalorian iron, 90% of the time, I get 2 upari crystals back. THAT IS IT. So, the whole, you get mats back is a heap of ****. I RE'd about 20 pieces and got 2 mandalorian iron back and about 4 ciridium.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Pureblade

[Pureblade]

I also realized part of the problem with PvP gear is that the pvp reward bags give you Tier TWO pvp Champion gear, which is WAY stronger than the Centurion gear. I mean, with 14 bags I got 7 pieces of T2 PvP (136 rating) gear. That really widens the disparity as well...I mean, I would assume the 2nd rank pvp gear should be something that should require a LOT of effort to get, but rather I have never bought a Centurion piece, as I have gotten most of the Champion level pieces already with minimal effort.

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

i didn't read the thread, but took notice of the word "hardcore" in the topic line.

 

get it through your heads: this game isn't for the hardcore.

 

hope this helps.

[Liathan]

what game ever rewards you for being a hardcore dedicated crafter?

[Pureblade]

I don't know but I can think of DAOC, EQ2, Vanguard, and EVE right off the top of my head.

[oredith]

as much as all this QQ is valid, you guys should see how useless armstech is, and then revel in how much more awesome synthweave is in comparison.

[oredith]

I did a bunch of HMs and Ops and never seen an Armstech epic pattern drop (loads of other proff patterns tho, at least 1 per HM and few in each Ops).

and you won't.. there's currently none in game.