Marauders vs healers.

[Midee]

Hello,

 

I play a Marauder I've leveled to 50 two weeks ago.

 

Over the past time I've been pre 50 and at 50, pre and post 1.1 I've been having one single issue, which I thought was was gear based.

I farmed the gear that was necessary to become a PvP "killing machine", spec'd properly to my liking for PvP viability.

 

Considering I enjoyed the bursty playstyle of Carnage, I levelled with it, PvE'd with it (small suckup moment to Kibaken who was quite helpful with his theorycrafting <3 PS: I love you and let's make babies, shame you're most likely American though so that makes you far.)

 

Back to business. I also PvP with it with the current spec I basically shaped around to my liking. (Don't come bashing my face now if you use the same spec and posted it somewhere, I am not claiming credit nor rights for it, I'm just saying what spec I use and I didn't really read anywhere if it was posted).

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZGrrbddrRrsZM.1

 

Right'o~.. Moving along.

Problem identified: Healers.

 

Most of the times, as we may know, healers are going to be behind the front lines, jamming green stuff that cure people. Eventually forcing you MOST OF THE TIMES to charge them.

Here's what happens in my situation..

Force Charge > position myself where the knockback is least effective > Crippling Slash > Battering Assault > Gore > Ravage..

 

--

 

By then he's going "bah bugger off, don't have time for you.. arggh, gonna heal myself a bit before I top off x guy again.."

 

--

 

.. Disruption > Massacre > Force Scream > Assault once to stay good on Rage [in case someone starts noticing me on their healer and comes to stop me > Cloak of Pain] > Force Choke to interrupt their second heal > Massacre..

 

--

 

"AH REALLY NOW F OFF ANNOYING DOUBLE SABER MEDIUM ARMORED *****" > Knockback

 

--

 

.. Await his heal cast > Force Charge to interrupt it > Disruption next cast > Battering Assault > Crippling Slash > Deadly Throw > Intimidating Roar to stop his heal cast..

 

--

 

CC'd.

 

--

 

..Unleash (psh, bish please) > ??????????? cc derp > (I get the bish please back in my face) > Healer takes a good distance, heal heal heal heal.

 

.. Insert tiny Asian rage from my part with lots of mouse / keyboard bashing / trashing developpers who were smoking pot while making our main interrupt only interrupt one single ability ??????? for the next 4 seconds????????????????

WHEN THE ABILITY ITSELF HAS A 8 SECONDS COOLDOWN LOL?????????

 

.. Calm down boy, go back on the healer > crap, everyone must have noticed me by now > get beaten > crawl to the healer, Undying Rage.. argh. No, must live.. Kill.. Healer.. Arghh.. Father, nooooo! Dead.

 

As a very experienced PvP player from WoW, Rift and Aion, with a general gaming knowledge of 15 years, MMO pvp and pve knowledge of 7 years, please enlighten me on how to kill a SIMILAR + geared (Champion) healer of any class. Knowing all of them got knockbacks, shields and so on.

 

I wouldn't mind you trashing me either if you find a solution in my awful "rotation" I use for PvP healers.

 

----

 

Problem status: Unsolved.

 

----

 

PS: If you're going to ask me to spec Rage or Annihilation, I'm going to murder my kitten. And that is a sub-trolling sub-real threat which may cause my girlfriend to castrate me.

 

Regards.

 

~Midy.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Midee

[yokubou]

We just lack dps to kill them. I know your frustration. I've been focusing healers all the time, but if they are not really dumb they just won't die no matter what.

 

It's funny how a PURE dps class, where all trees are DPS, do less or same damage as Ranged classes. Being melee...

 

I hope they get buffed soon.

[deathTouchIG]

Problem 1: You never mention using saber throw. It is a healing debuff. Use it on healers.

 

Problem 2: Carnage is bursty, and that's about it. If you can't kill the healer in your initial rotations, then you're in trouble. Considering they can bubble most of the damage on your initial burst and probably get in a heal on themselves at some point, it can be very hard for carnage specs to burst down high expertise healing classes.

Edited January 21, 2012 by deathTouchIG

[ChaeTakbae]

Problem 2: Carnage is bursty, and that's about it. If you can't kill the healer in your initial rotations, then you're in trouble. Considering they can bubble most of the damage on your initial burst and probably get in a heal on themselves at some point, it can be very hard for carnage specs to burst down high expertise healing classes.

 

This, Carnage will always have hard time bursting down healers. When I carnage I prefer to jump on low targets and finish off the job. Your Rotation is fine, it's just the nature of bursting and a healer sustaining himself overtime. Force Choke is another interrupt you can use in between your rotations to reduce the downtime between cooldowns.

[Midee]

I have mentioned Deadly Throw, which is my healing reduction spell, it's somewhere in my "rotation".

 

As for Force Choke, already mentioned I use it as a backup interrupter.

[Maxxacre]

You should be able to beat a healer head to head when equivalently geared every time... it just might take a while. You just need to keep your 20% healing debuff up the entire fight and use your interrupt intelligently, but as much as possible. On longer cast times that you need to interrupt, you should make an effort to squeeze in an extra attack before interrupting. Doing that on a regular basis in a longer fight against a healer really adds up. You really have the advantage of infinite resources in that fight too. In a battle of attrition, having a 20% healing debuff with 100% uptime, you really should be winning that fight.

[Kibaken]

They need to make our interrupt prevent schools of spells from being cast instead of just the spell we interrupt.

 

They give us that, change Savage Kick to be a knockdown, Force Push or Pull, and change Ravage to something more suited for Melee and I'm a happy guy.

[BarcodeX]

They need to make our interrupt prevent schools of spells from being cast instead of just the spell we interrupt.

 

This is nice for us non-healers but fellow Operative healers say that when these Interrupt actually WORK, they can't spam their Kolto shot thing which is their main heal. 4 seconds or so makes it deadly to them. I don't see BW allowing Interrupts to prevent "schools" of spells. Though, it'd be nice for us

[ReFlexionn]

if you 1 v 1 healers, thier force/energy/heat should be huge problem for them over time, if u go anni, your interrupt is 6 sec cd for 4 sec lock out( which is very awesome) but since you are carnage and in your situation, not alone, you should have someone to back you up too, i mean if the healer got back ups, you should too right?

[Kodokai]

Your problem.

 

 

Carnage

[PianoTie]

They need to make our interrupt prevent schools of spells from being cast instead of just the spell we interrupt.

 

They give us that, change Savage Kick to be a knockdown, Force Push or Pull, and change Ravage to something more suited for Melee and I'm a happy guy.

 

 

First off, prevent schools of spells is just bad. Healers have a hard time as it is against good teams due to hard focus. Learn wich spell to interrupt, u dont have to get em all. And second, u should never be alone on a healer. Learn to type in chat or mark the healers.

 

More CC? i would say yes, if it gave full resolve bar like a hars tun.

 

I team up with a Maurauder in all my games, and seeing what he does and what he tells me on vent that he can do is just mean to other players. He is playing Annihilation and feels he can melt targets alot better that way. As he says: I just find a target and kill it

[Midee]

I'm not finding myself in a 1v1 against a healer, it's the fact that I can't kill a GOOD healer before help comes and evaporates me off the map before I kill him.

 

I'm not sure if Disruption would be too good with a whole school interrupt, but it sure isn't working as a single spell 4 seconds interrupt, when the cooldown itself is 8 seconds.

 

The current way it is, I feel it's more of a penalty to the Marauder than the Caster.

1 rage, 8 seconds cd.

4 seconds interrupt on a single spell, nothing shabby.

--

In a scenario where you are on a healer with stuff like Force Choke on CD, you're not gonna kill it, simple.

 

Also, take your elitist comments and try hard stuff back to your own realms and bumbuddies, I many times am able to 2v1 players, don't start the "MY MARAUDER BUDDY CHARGES, THEN THE TARGET SUICIDES WHEN HE CHARGES, HES THAT GOOD. HE EVEN MAKES PANCAKES MID-AIR CHARGE!"

 

All I wanted to know is that if I'm the only Marauder who has issues in a group of healers 2+ in a 4v4 situation fight, in Warzones or Ilum.

 

I wasn't ever talking in a 1v1 situation.

 

~Midy.

[Xerain]

Your problem.

 

 

Carnage

 

This.

 

 

 

Against sorc/sage healers if their bubble is up use massacre to pop the bubble and then pop your gore and force scream and it will nuke them quite hard, the interrupt isn't part of gcd so if they try to heal after the bubble pop then stop them. Wait till they're low and choke if you can and then pop your Vicious throw.

 

I haven't played against any op healers or merc healers really as carnage as they weren't that popular in beta.

 

 

Annihilation does a much better job of killing healer. 0-30m charge, 6 sec cd interrupt, 12 sec charge cd which you can use to interrupt a heal too.

[texoc]

This.

 

 

 

Against sorc/sage healers if their bubble is up use massacre to pop the bubble and then pop your gore and force scream and it will nuke them quite hard, the interrupt isn't part of gcd so if they try to heal after the bubble pop then stop them. Wait till they're low and choke if you can and then pop your Vicious throw.

 

I haven't played against any op healers or merc healers really as carnage as they weren't that popular in beta.

 

 

Annihilation does a much better job of killing healer. 0-30m charge, 6 sec cd interrupt, 12 sec charge cd which you can use to interrupt a heal too.

 

^ this again

 

havent played carnage alot...

but annihilation eats Healers !!!

 

if you get a good opener with force choke etc available you cant finish it in 10 secs

 

- running! to the healer ( because you expect knockback)

- Battering Assault + Deadly Saber while positioning yourself in the best way possible to not

get knocked to far away or off a ledge in case of a knockback

- Berserk - Power Adren - Relic - Choke

 

= Bubble Gone - choking ****** in the air - critting and dotting 16k hp down to 3-4 k

 

---> annihilate +/or Vicious Throw

 

end.

 

this is the perfect scenario...

 

but most of the time you have to chase them arround... rupting every skill...

 

20% heal reduction

50% slow

6 sec CD rupt

Choke as rupt/ cc/ part of insane dot combo

aoe cc that can be used as rupt aswell

charge as rupt aswell

 

if you cant kill a healer you can be atleast sure his group heal and support gets down to 0.

[Kricys]

Shouldn't have issues with any healers except for the troopers. They seem not be locked out when interrupted.

[Xerain]

Shouldn't have issues with any healers except for the troopers. They seem not be locked out when interrupted.

 

just keep beating on them till their bubble thing drops, they can't be interrupted till then, then you go all out on them.

[BarcodeX]

Yes, Annihilation ***** healers and I love it. Healers are ALWAYS my first target.

[Pappus]

Midee against healer you don't open up with force charge except maybe on operatives.

 

The natural answer to force charge is knockback and the longer they delay it the worse it gets for you with the time they gain.

 

Walk into the fight if it is somewhat reasonable or don't blow your cds until your second force charge is up. Remember, that against a sage their knockback cd about matches your force charge cd.

 

Now let's go through with the actual fight I will pick a sage:

 

Freshly casted shield on him -> autowalk into it gore (no ravage!), battering assault, massacre, scream. As the scream should penetrate his shield and take a bit of his health his reaction is either force speed or knockback -> force speed you counter with deadly throw (root + healing debuff ), knockback you counter with force charge -> Massacre (float 1 to have interrupt handy of course). Rinse repeat your first rotation of course if he delays his defensive maneuvers you will need to delay your real burst aswell

 

You still aren't allowed to ravage until he at least stunned (unleash) you or tried his second getaway with either option he has left because you need it to get quickly into execute range. Most likely this will occur on your third cycle and if you don't kill him in this burst, then he will get away.

 

Okay so just make sure you get it you counter his defensive moves and when he is out of them you go all out with adrenals or whatever you have to punch your damage up.

now all the heavy hitters need to come out and most likely you will win.

 

Remember you can do a little burst to trigger his third defensive row with a berserk + massacre spam, personally I didn't do it I kept my fury for movement speed.

 

Don't listen to the strange fellows here that tell you carnage is the problem, it actually isn't and you literally never go with dps but straight for burst when you want to drop a healer.