RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You have never PvPed against me and most likely i could wipe the floor with you,see how that sounded? so many immature brats on forums,and your assuming il reroll,i never stated i will,so why did you say that? are that well yah know? Actually yeah I have pvped against you. Please cry more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanngnjostr Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Result is more like: more Sorc incoming. I expect full teams of Sorc soon. You can't remove burst if you don't add some kind of compensation! It just ruins the class! I think people will be sorely disappointed if they do. Sorcs have lots of abilities but do **** for damage and can't go invisible to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohrazer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) They basicly nerfed our damage 50%. Yah see there is so few of us they had to appease the masses of sorcs/inquises and well to be blunt they said to our class you dont matter and there is not enougth of you that does matter even if you all cancel,but not with sorcs and inquis. are you freaking kidding me? all i see in wz's recently are operatives, i have 21k hp in full tank gear and they kill me SO FAST, its ridiculous, never seen anything like it in an mmo before, you know how it feels to get crit for 5k then hit someone back for 500? lol Edited January 21, 2012 by Tohrazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Actually yeah I have pvped against you. Please cry more. Name plz and guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Result is more like: more Sorc incoming. I expect full teams of Sorc soon. You can't remove burst if you don't add some kind of compensation! It just ruins the class! As there weren't enough Inquisitors as it is, they are everywhere with their lightning, like a plague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansports Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You can not claim that your class is dead before even seeing how the nerf affects you. And as they stated, you were not supposed to run around and pretty much instant kill everyone This has been fixed, and now you most likely will be on par with all the rest of the dps:ers. You know, having to actually learn some rotations, how to control your character and how resolve etc works! Oh noes, we can't kill people in under 4 GCD's just to instant stealth or in worst case, pop vanish (1) This fix and the fix to WZ wins not counting towards daily completion will probably be some of the best fixes (if they do work as intended..) implemented so far. (1): Used the word vanish for two reasons. a) I have no idea what the abilities are actually called in swtor and b) about everyone understands what kind of ability I mean if I use a wow reference. Except I do know rotations, I understand resolve in the fullest. Our guilds Merc healer hasn't been killed in a Knockdown in over a week. He has 11.3% expertise. Even similar or slightly better geared Ops just open on him drop him a little below half get knocked away and die to our Marauder or powertech. Because you see once out of stealth, even post vanish (just aoe I can't even reckon in numbers the number of vanishes stealth scan has denied people. But wait this requires your BH/Sorcs to use their abilties wouldn't want that) Is 50% of someones health in 3 abilities alot? Well maybe. HS Backstab Laceration. But their target now at full resolve and the Op left to shiv/lacerate IF he's still in range too and in control of himself Wont finish the health left on a target. If that target gets a heal or two off while using any number of CC effects the operatives only response to getting KBed by a sorc and rooted is trinket or Evasion. either way sorcs still have WW or Stun and now have +4k health thanks to a shield. And this is the light armouriest class. Sure I still die to operatives when I get jumped at half health and noone can help me. BUT THATS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. If I'm at full like say fighting over Snow in Civil war and I get jumped at the start of the fight the operative doesn't kill me EVER. And I'm not even a BM yet my gear isn't great. It isn't even like I WANT operatives to burst I think being so 1 dimensional is bad design. But they have literally no tools to do anything BUT burst. No sustained, no utility JUST burst. They don't even have a choice they either do it or they don't touch their buttons. Take the burst away, Fine I have no qualms but give them something, anything to make their life outside of stealth less awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 are you freaking kidding me? all i see in wz's recently are operatives, i have 21k hp in full tank gear and they kill me SO FAST, its ridiculous, never seen anything like it in an mmo before Yah see it's this,lol,yah 21k hitpoints gone in 3 secs,lol. The kid's lie and a class dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No tears none,i find it funny to be honest how a company can shoot itself in the foot by listening to a bunch of tweens,teens and ubher geeks that do not wish balance. But hey whatever. Haha, your credability is already blown to bits mate! Just by you saying that your class wasn't OP tears it to bits. My bet of how it went down: Bioware moderators see all the QQ about the Operative, pass it on to the developers. The developers read up on some of the complaints, trying to figure out what people consider being the problem. They then go to their massive amounts of logs and metrics and start looking into different tiers (from PvE to PvP, from low level to max level, from no gear to the best gear etc) trying to figure out if the numbers are right. After what probably is alot of hours checking numbers, they do decide that the OP/SC have a higher burst output, especially from stealth, than they were intended to have. They simply overperformed. The issue that probably delayed this specific nerf was the problem with the biochem/buff stacking. They took that away but Still saw too high numbers from the OP/SC. So they did their math and simply lowered the abilities that was the problem. Balancing a game with this "little" content and diversity is rather easy. And considering how well the overall PvP/PvE is, I'd dare say that Balancing is something they atleast know how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohrazer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yah see it's this,lol,yah 21k hitpoints gone in 3 secs,lol. The kid's lie and a class dies. i never said anything about three seconds, the simple fact is a tank shouldnt get dismantled like that, you think its fine to kill a fully geared tank in 10~ seconds? have you even played an mmo before? Edited January 21, 2012 by Tohrazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It was hot knife throu butter, now its just a knife. Manageable. Common sense? In the PvP board? Get out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xx-Gildon-xX Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Face it they want to get rid of operatives. Rerolling sorc. Love the rivers of tears, and the "ohh i'll be sorc" Newsflash - although you see a lot of lightning and it's cool..... I double dog dare you to be a sorc.....in comparison to what you WERE and STILL ARE ---you won't stay with that class for long at all. Utility yes....damage? LOL no. Come join us....grass isn't greener... and *** seriously are you guys all 12? ONE skill 20% reduc...and this?!?!?! I'm ashamed of you .....FOR you. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbyuk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 scoundrel here, i do not see why other scoundrels and ops are complaining so much, our damage was far to high, it was far to easy to take down most classes, but with these nerfs i do think they should buff maybe our melee abils by maybe 5%-10% to compensate, not back blast as that is still a high hitter, i would just enjoy being able to punch the hell out of peeps for a lil more damage to compensate:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naniyo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 the spammers who got killed by Xyz class came to forums an spammed hundred threads about an imaginary ability to instantly kill anyone. basically they didn't like getting killed by someone, its a normal tactic, one we will now see used on another class... Funnily enough its the same group of young ones that cheated an exploited their shinys that demand the nerfs. ^^ this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Haha, your credability is already blown to bits mate! Just by you saying that your class wasn't OP tears it to bits. My bet of how it went down: Bioware moderators see all the QQ about the Operative, pass it on to the developers. The developers read up on some of the complaints, trying to figure out what people consider being the problem. They then go to their massive amounts of logs and metrics and start looking into different tiers (from PvE to PvP, from low level to max level, from no gear to the best gear etc) trying to figure out if the numbers are right. After what probably is alot of hours checking numbers, they do decide that the OP/SC have a higher burst output, especially from stealth, than they were intended to have. They simply overperformed. The issue that probably delayed this specific nerf was the problem with the biochem/buff stacking. They took that away but Still saw too high numbers from the OP/SC. So they did their math and simply lowered the abilities that was the problem. Balancing a game with this "little" content and diversity is rather easy. And considering how well the overall PvP/PvE is, I'd dare say that Balancing is something they atleast know how to do. Uhm no i believe you are wrong and here's why. What are the two most played Empire classes in this game and would cause outrage if they were touched? those are your OP classes and everyone on this forum knows it,,,mate. Edited January 21, 2012 by Sathid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohrazer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Except I do know rotations, I understand resolve in the fullest. Our guilds Merc healer hasn't been killed in a Knockdown in over a week. He has 11.3% expertise. Even similar or slightly better geared Ops just open on him drop him a little below half get knocked away and die to our Marauder or powertech. Because you see once out of stealth, even post vanish (just aoe I can't even reckon in numbers the number of vanishes stealth scan has denied people. But wait this requires your BH/Sorcs to use their abilties wouldn't want that) Is 50% of someones health in 3 abilities alot? Well maybe. HS Backstab Laceration. But their target now at full resolve and the Op left to shiv/lacerate IF he's still in range too and in control of himself Wont finish the health left on a target. If that target gets a heal or two off while using any number of CC effects the operatives only response to getting KBed by a sorc and rooted is trinket or Evasion. either way sorcs still have WW or Stun and now have +4k health thanks to a shield. And this is the light armouriest class. Sure I still die to operatives when I get jumped at half health and noone can help me. BUT THATS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. If I'm at full like say fighting over Snow in Civil war and I get jumped at the start of the fight the operative doesn't kill me EVER. And I'm not even a BM yet my gear isn't great. It isn't even like I WANT operatives to burst I think being so 1 dimensional is bad design. But they have literally no tools to do anything BUT burst. No sustained, no utility JUST burst. They don't even have a choice they either do it or they don't touch their buttons. Take the burst away, Fine I have no qualms but give them something, anything to make their life outside of stealth less awful. so basically if you have almost 12% expertise and 17k?~ hp, it only takes you to just below half before you can STAND UP lets suppose you just dinged 50, have no expertise and 11.5k hp and some geared operative takes a dislike to you - hows them apples for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No tears none,i find it funny to be honest how a company can shoot itself in the foot by listening to a bunch of tweens,teens and ubher geeks that do not wish balance. But hey whatever. They took a bad player and made them worse. We get your sadness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicenewtonz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 this nerf wasnt necessary at all. they really should introduce some sort of sustained damage buff atleast when they neuter the opener like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Nerf is reasonable and not ridiculous. Looking forward to BH/Trooper nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastionhawk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Nerf is reasonable and not ridiculous. Looking forward to BH/Trooper nerfs. Oh ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 They took a bad player and made them worse. We get your sadness. No im a very good player in every game ive played,thats just me,i dont use little immature retorts and comebacks,,are you 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmund_Drake Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Any scoundrel or operative agreeing that we were/are overpowered have never dealt with the challenging scenario of facing a savvy enemy or well organized combatants. Newbie operatives if you will. So tell us, mighty whiners, what is our role now? If you guessed being /danced at while you give it everything you have to unsuccessfully try to kill someone you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Name plz and guild. No baddie just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Lol nice overnerf. Jarring Strike and Hidden Strike makes sense, I figured a nerf was coming for the opener. But nerfing Acid Blade is lulz. Now sustained DPS is going to be even worse than it already is. Good thing I already rerolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Nerf is reasonable and not ridiculous. Looking forward to BH/Trooper nerfs. I just want tracer missile/ grav round looked at. The spam is getting to me. Some will say it's too much damage, others will say l2play, I just want to see it be a little more involved. Same with the no CD lightning spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansports Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 so basically if you have almost 12% expertise and 17k?~ hp, it only takes you to just below half before you can STAND UP lets suppose you just dinged 50, have no expertise and 11.5k hp and some geared operative takes a dislike to you - hows them apples for you? Well I'd lose 1v1 to basicly any geared class if I was a fresh 50. Operatives just do it faster. thats gear disparity. And the point that was being made is that while an equally geared operative can drop a healer to half in KD it rarely results in a kill. Their out of stealth post opener options are so thin it's child's play to make them useless after the burst is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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