FRISKI Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks for taking action regarding the exploitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vordy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks for taking action regarding the exploitation. Still, you cant call them exploiters when it was designed this way, you are a fool if you think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piticao Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 first, sorry about not having the time and power to read all the posts in the thread, that may lead me to throw some redundand turd... I do not think punishing the players who benefited from the valor bonuses is the right action, considering they were acting towards completing the daily quests that the game itself threw at them. perhaps there were players who stuck to ilum camping stuff for extended periods of time, but the BW team is to blame on that. the valor exploit was mentioned, known, untill they took action, block it, made a general announcement about it's "illegal" nature, how can you blame the players?In this case, let's display the penalties and rollback on BW employees as well, they caused it, let's get their time/pay cut too, right? I am eager to see this game reaching a proper "open world" pvp status, having to go for hours through warzones and the Ilum madness to get your Valor rank up and farm for gear is plain stupid. And on a side note, there are plenty of easy measures that can be taken to prevent what happened on Ilum, just on a quick blink/thought: patroling guards around bases and on campable spots, prevent players in forming ops group of 24 for pvp tasks/quests, and so on. just my 2 and a half cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadivus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Let me save you the troubles.I was there.And i butchered as many Republic scum(j/k i got a sage too)as i could.Now the other side of the coin.If it's in the sodding game it's part of the game! So "punish" players because.....what? It's not nice? Soft creatures with enormous crying skills. Edited January 21, 2012 by Cadivus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrecklessMEDIC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is absolute horse **** for a response. They either need to do a mass rollback or openly publish the names of those they are actually punishing, and to what degree. Transparency is the only solution to a colossal ****up of this magnitude. On the very first major patch they took a massive squat down steaming pile of **** on the entire PVP system. If they aren't willing to sack up and do what is actually right and roll back valor, they should at least guarantee the community they are actually doing something by providing us the details as to who and what. Wait.. what? You think they should do a mass rollback on even the people who were nowhere near Ilum at the time? That makes absolutely no sense. But thanks for your well thought out input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Camping is cheating...simple as that. Allowing camping is bad design in my opinion, I wouldnt really fault the players.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBerenger Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Again. Bioware made it that way. Not that players. Some people seem to completely lack ''COMMON SENSE'' or logic for that matter. How about IF BW would've made a mistake and have crafting Medpacs/Crystals give you 20000XP after each successfully crafted item. I guess you would've thought that being completely legit and okay to abuse without reporting it immediately. You wouldn't most likely thought it was suspicious but instead just kept being greedy as always. Glitches/Bugs are problems that the devs haven't noticed. But just because they're ''In the game'' doesn't justify abusing the sh*t out of them. C-O-M-M-O-N S-E-N-S-E Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunzwei Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 We take any sort of situation where one group of players gains an unexpected or unintended advantage over other players very seriously and will act to ensure that all players can have a fair and fun game experience. So the fact this was said would suggest that the mass farming on Illum was intended since your "metrics" would have already told you that your game suffers from massive faction imbalances. Notice how all this farming started the moment the servers came up. Your patch notes in 1.1 basically said "Illum is a republican farm zone now, have at it". Thanks for your patience while we worked to resolve this issue. Our team worked diligently to get a patch ready to address this and other issues, and we're already seeing the results in improved battles on Ilum. On my server we still farm republicans because you know..we outnumber them 2/3-1. I wouldn't really consider being farmed inside your base to being farmed right outside of it an "improvement". The amount of Valor granted from these activities was significantly more than intended and we are now carefully investigating players who were on Ilum during this period, and present at some of these 'camping' events. Investigating what? Thousands of players? Exactly how much staff do you have to work on this and how much time will this pull away from other things that need work? Why didn't the team instead just pull the servers down and hotfix in a way to disable valor gains on Illum for a temporary period? Instead the developers let this go on for 15+ hours and then want to preach about their Draconic witch hunt to calm the angry mob. As always we welcome your feedback and will continue to improve moving forward! My only suggestion is try spending more time using critical thinking as opposed to impulsive reaction in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaputz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm gobsmacked. I must finally applaud you but still question the length of time this has/is taking. I hope for a swift redress. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benets Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I had some ideas for Ilum. It seems to me that the map have few real interest points. There's no reason to have such large map if the fight happens at few locations. And the mechanic of get the points, well, it not have a real tactical benefit for it. What i thougth: It could have some other points of interest that really change something in the battle. It could have one or two resources for each team to build things on the map or power up the particle guns and other possible guns like machinegun blasters. Like a real time strategy game. Resources: Metals or minerals (to build guns and repair lost guns in the base) and energy to energize those guns, it could have levels of energy and the towers could improve its damage if have more power, or perhaps the number of active guns could rise. It could have some mines in the field that you need to capture, when you have those mines your metal or mineral stock increases over time. It could have some power generators in the map. Each power generator increase the current level of power allowing you to build more guns and/or improve its damage. Together with generators could have power lines connectin the power generator to your base or enemy's base. Enemy's could plant bombs in the power lines to disable it, and allies could fix it. Same thing with generators, a faction could sabotage the generator and/or sabotage the power lines. Inside this complex zone system, it could have specific ranks for ilum separated from valor. Ilum ranks. Reaching specifics rank levels could alow you access manager options like build things like the particle gun, or improve some defenses. High Ilum rank level could abilitate some options in the map screen or one high ilum rank level could enter a commander room with manager devices where to build some things. With resources it could build and palce some automated defense system like turrets to aid. So the ganked team could have some help. I made map how i think it could be -> Ilum Benets Map The red thing is the generators and the red lines is the power lines connecting it to the bases. The square box could be the power line towers where players can sabotage with bombs. perhaps we could get bombs in a factory inside our base to plant on objectives. The western power generator on the center is bigger and provide more power than the other but both factions can use it but player could sabotage the power lines and/or the generator. If they sabotage the power lines the all the power of this generator goes to your faction. Or you could destroy the generator so none would have this power. (well its a strategic decision, if you can't get your lines fixed you could destoy the generator so nor you nor the oposite will benefit for it for some time until it's fixed). The purpe triangles could be the entrance of mines people could dominate to earn minerals over time. Some of those objectives could be a phased zone like mission zones, or a class phased story zones. But a phased pvp zone where the number inside are limited for fewer participants. Like 4 or 8. So inside those objectives at least it could be balanced the number. It don't matter if Imps have 100 players in Ilum, in the mines only can enter 4 or 8 each time. Like a mini warzone or a dinamic arena. Could have a safe wait room in the entrance for each faction where player cannot be attacked and players enter in the mine when open a spot. It could have a respawn time for other enter. Like when sombody inside die need to wait 20 seconds to other enter. The center of the map could be something like a castle or base you could siege and mount defense systems. The team on control could use their weapons and have a closer spawn points to enemy base, soh the battle a progression not skip everything and go to enemy base, if you dont get or dominate a respawn point you walk more to reach the battle zone. So it could be a massive dynamic mix of world pvp with elements of arena style and warzones. Another idea is, could have some uses for the crafting professions. Each professions could have tasks or bonus in some things. And perhaps specifics missions inside it. They could click in a console or part near the itens and open like a craft menu spefic for ilum with gathering materials found only at ilum pvp zone and used only for ilum purposes. Those material collected could go not to the person who gather but it could go for the faction resourse like a faction bank with all pvp gathered itens on ilum or resouce bar. Armormech could 'work' on turrets and guns and automated defense systems and improve the life of it. Armstech could improve the damage of those guns. Artifice could build better crystal or enhance to put on guns and improve the fire rate for exemple. Biochem could build medical droids on objetive improving the life or people near it, like a becon or rasing the life regeneration. Cybertech could build combat droids or improve some aspect of defense systems. Synthweaving, this hard lol, dunno, build some camuflage covers for systems so players only see the defense system when got too close, or build "bunkers" or tents or camps with camouflage that give a lesser stealth a zone for a while to everybody inside it, enemy will only see you when enter the zone. Also some professions could have bonus for some tasks, like, slicing and/or cybertech could use the gun consoles faster than normal to fix it. Armstech could have a improved rocket to fire at vehicles with rockes, or faster or more damage. Like if a armortech improved the resistance of vehicles the life could be improved and you could only destry with 3 shots. But an armstech could still do it with 1 shot. Or activate de bazooka faster. Or armstech could have a improved particle gun like more time using it (channeling). And so on. Ilum could have some timed or random events. Like A ship fall and the factions need to reach and secure it till the event time ends to get something that could give some advantage. Like 1% damage for an hour in ilum or extra 20% valor bonus for 1 hour. Or ilum resources. Also Ilum bases could have some other things like artillery with limited range. Once per half-hour you could activate a part of map in range of artillery, not too far, and do an (not lethal) aoe damage to enemies in the area of effect. Like 200 per second for 20 seconds. (4k total damage). And perhaps an orbital bombardment with same caracteristcs but no limit range once per hour or 2 hours. 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Kaputz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hello everyone! We've posted a new blog from Jeff Hickman that talks more about this week's PvP issues on Ilum. Click here to read the blog! Thanks Mr Hickman. A reasoned voice after the bull we have had to endure. This for me is an interesting sign that, perhaps, player voices are being heard. Why the deliberation though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarlordThuran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sounds like something that would take AGES before being done, considering you would technically have to manually check each players, but still good to hear they went for the middle ground instead of just mass punishing those who were just having a good time. Now, can we please stop the mass whine of the past few days??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEdiKLEZ Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) On the other hand, to accomplish conquering enemy towns & bases in open world in general should be a very exciting experience!! Why not implementing some mechanics which reward those players which were able to enter and hold enemy owned towns & bases for a certain amount of time? Or maybe implement some sort of "Flag" inside of bases or towns which the enemy has to reach to gain rewards? The opposition would have time to defend its town while the attackers try to hold a certain place inside of the base which is on the opposite side of the defenders respawn point. In the end it doesnt really matter how it should be exactly the only thing that matters is a cooldown of such base operations which prevents towns or bases from getting entered by enemies... In addition implement a timer which starts when enemy players accomplish to enter towns & bases that way you prevent abuse like we've seen it on ilum! Dont understand me wrong ive got 8 characters all on republic side on tomb of Freedon Nadd[EU] but getting punished for managing takeovers isnt fun... Edit: I wanna underline that it shouldnt be about the reward taking over enemy owned towns & bases but about the fun you gain by experiencing it!! Edited January 21, 2012 by MEdiKLEZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valketh Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah that's exactly what i was saying. Why not? Some people find shortcuts and more power to them, do they pay the same as you to get the same opportunity or the same outcome? Bioware's fault, Bioware's problem, not theirs. Wow, all I can say is dumb*****. Wrong on so many points I'm not even going to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessicayla Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Our in-game metrics are able to give us precise details on where players were, what they were doing and what rewards they gained. So, if that's possible, why can't your CS go in and return the tons of mail that has been lost for tons of people? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=39498 39 pages and the same bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness_au Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you F up, then go after those that played YOUR f up ?? nice work Bio.. test your crap before putting it out maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltohan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Was about time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casmaran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you F up, then go after those that played YOUR f up ?? nice work Bio.. test your crap before putting it out maybe ? Need to re write this for your statement to be correct... Change "Played" to "exploited, and grief other players." Is it so darn hard for people on both sides to see that something is unfair, take a step back and walk away... The future looks bleak when you see soo many people willing to be so cruel, and greedy, against other people.. especially in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamostia Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sounds positive Bioware is taking action. However, I really didnt like the implied threat of 'account action'. You cant punish people for camping others if the game allows it. I also don't like the reference that somehow people are evil dooers and exploiting. If your design lacks taking all of this into account then fix it and stop trying to marginalise your own short-sight Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bele Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If im not mistaken the ones playing on the test servers warned about this. So it shouldnt really had come as a surprise. But since Empire is overrepresened on my server ( aswell) i welcome the chance to give the republic players a chance to do the Ilum pvp casue i cant blame them for not showing up when there is alot of people just waiting to zerg them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucairion Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) This is stupid. Bioware makes a horrible mechanic for Ilum then blames the players that took advantage of the horrible mechanic. It reminds me of 4th grade when we made our own games on the playground, got beat at them, then blamed the kids that won the games we made. Go ahead and change the rules again Bioware, and when you end up crying because your game is broken try to remember it's your fault. Full disclosure: I'm not one of the people talented enough to farm valor, my PC can't even handle the 150 people fighting at the base at once anyway, so I'm not upset because bioware changed a mechanic i was good at. It's just ****** to punish the player-base because the highly esteemed design team somehow didn't see this coming. im sorry but i do not agree. people who activily and intentionally continued to use this exploit and new that somethng wasnt right. 400 valor a kill i been told. camping enemy teams base and killing there turret so they couldnt defend are to plae. sure the mechanic was wrong but YOU choose to continue to exploit a situtation which was unfair on the opposing. team. if it were upto me all ppl who actively and intentionally use exploits to gain and unfair advantage would be perma baned but luckinly for u cheaters its not upto me. exploits and hacks ruin the game, man up and do it the real way liek the rest of us Edited January 21, 2012 by Nucairion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusslbaer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 What a crap! That's really perfect to blame the players for playing the game the easiest way instead of admitting that this was a fail patch and it needed further thoughts to be ready for live servers. First of all the biggest fail was not to check how many players are involved in the kill of another player and therefore split the amount of experience gained. Second fail was the too high amount of bonus xp gained for controlling Ilum while killing someone although u and everyone else know about the unbalanced population of the factions and that this of course will cause problems with the faster progression of empire players. History has shown many times that players always will go the easiest way and it's the responsibility of the devs to keep an eye on the balance of the game. Sure players are also induced to express their concerns when something threatens the game balance and so they did in the forums but devs just didnt listen, sat back and hoped that it all will work itself out but it didn't. And now you think about another fail which is the punishment of individual players for gaining pvp xp by pvping. You cant be serious about that! Of course the amount of xp was too high but you devs signed the patch and let it went live. The only solution if you really think that this is an immense problem for the game balance would be a complete roleback, so all players are affected the same way and not to pick individuals! Especially when almost all players are involved! Sigh, when do devs finally start to become aware of possible problems their patches may cause ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingprak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Dear Bioware, at first, good to see you go the right direction with that approach to individually reset valor gain by exploiting. Current daily time effort problem for a melee class: Please also consider, that any ranged aoe damage is just still used to tag enemies for valor gain / fast daily, whereas a melee class like me, a Marauder, only can jump in the Zerg once every minute with all cooldowns up, use one aoe ability to tag as much enemies i can, and then have to instantly run out and hope not to die instantly. It's just so dumb that the ranged got that very huge advantage ... Guess it take me more than four times longer than a ranged class with aoe abilities to do the daily ... while ranged classes just farm their valor points without getting in trouble once nonstop. I think this could be sorted out in another way as it currently is an unfair system. Greetings Lingprak Edited January 21, 2012 by Lingprak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xQuicksilverx Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 We have made the decision not to enact a mass 'rollback' of Valor points for all players in the game, or even on Ilum. This would unfairly penalize some players who may not have been present during this event. seriously.. on the 1.1 patch day.. what lvl 50's were NOT at ilum? there was maybe a handful of people who just stuck to warzones. And Im sure they would all be more than happy losing the bit of valor they grinded if they knew it meant all the peope who exploited were being set back. Seriously.. what a ******** excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucairion Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 seriously.. on the 1.1 patch day.. what lvl 50's were NOT at ilum? there was maybe a handful of people who just stuck to warzones. And Im sure they would all be more than happy losing the bit of valor they grinded if they knew it meant all the peope who exploited were being set back. Seriously.. what a ******** excuse im sorry but no, punishing ppl who didnt even go to imum is a very bad solution. they did not participate in exploiting so u cannot punish people who did exploit. if you were part of the exploit saw or felt something was wrong with the system ie camping enemy teams base getting mass amounts of valor per kill, killing enemy turret that should be obvious to spot then u walk away and dont particpate in it. if u exploit or cheat expect to get punished for it. dont complain about getting punished if u willingly kept exploiting a very bad design/bug. i went to ilum for 5 mis to see wot the qqing was about. didnt participate in anything but jsut to read the chat and because i suspected something was wrong and did not wont to particapte in the off chance i got rolled back on valor. i earned all my valor r36 or soemthing via warzones and i do not vbelieve its fair for me to get punished coz people on ilum exploited. dont do exploits then u want get punished its simple as that yes bioware should have noticed hte issue before putting it live specially after the comments on prublic test forums bout this issue. many people who exploited had read this then decided to exploit the situation for easy valor therefore intentionally using exploit to gian unfair advantage and those ppl SHOUL be punished not everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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