BH merc Lack to toolset to be competitive in PVP

[Sanzibal]

Once everyone hits 50 and is geared, there is going to be a glaring discrepancy between bounty hunters and other classes.

QUOTE]

 

I think you mean Mercs and the other classes. PT is fine.

[ugig]

At lvl 46 I do fine imo even in 1v1 pvp, sure i lose some, and some classes are harder to deal with than others, but this is the way of mmo's, at least the ones that dont have the "care bear" additude and try to make things easy for everyone.

 

I dont see myself as a CC class therefore I use my stun, as well as jet boost knockback as my interupts, and stay close to terrain features that will allow me to LoS when those are on CD, I never stand still longer than three tracer missle casts and am allways using at least rapid shots when moving to keep my DPS going. If I get CC'd and drop below 30% before I can get out then I just pop all my biggest hitters and go out in a blaze, respawn and come back.

 

The one thing i would wish for is an escape ability, jet assisted sprint, or jump to get out of dodge when I get melee focused/interupted, and maybe on the mobility side, make the Unload buff you get from TM allow it to be used on the run, in its current form when it procs its a straight 30% dmg increase, add in the ability to use it while moving and make it an either/or buff, i.e. if it procs and you use it while standing still its the 30% dmg, if you are moving you can use it at 0% dmg increase.

[Phrase]

Only thing I'd really like to see is a root on Jet Boost. Other than that we really are fine. You just can't blow all of your cds w/o thinking. It also helps once you understand resolve and take some time to learn some situational comboes instead of relying on one rotation.

As far as interrupts, we have two good ones once you learn how to use Power Surge with Concussion, and Electro-dart.

[Cammor]

+1 for interupt

[Suzut]

@Angelesis (OP)

I take it from your complaints that you are a QQing Arsenal that is demanding that you be allowed to stand in one place and instantly kill anybody. From day one, I realized that Arsenal, despite its phenomenal damage, is not viable in open warzone formats specifically because of many of the problems you describe here. I suggest that you try Pyrotech. It will really open your eyes to what it means to play a Mercenary. Otherwise, get used to the fact that people will start running away when you start putting Heat Signatures on them. (That Tracer Missile noise is distinctive and annoying.)

 

Here's the cookie cutter:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZfhMbdGGMs.1

 

But here is how I would address your concerns as a Pyrotech:

1. Define what you mean by "interrupt." Because the last time I checked, we do have knockbacks and stuns. If you mean that we should have Quell, I'm not so sure about that. We are a ranged DPS class. That range comes with sacrifices. Besides, as a Pyrotech, you can always run out of the maximum casting range of enemies; you should always try to be as far away as possible anyway, since almost all of your skills are 30 range.

 

2. I suppose this is legitimate. I wish Shoulder Slam were more usable; they should have it be a close range knockdown to stop Operatives from bursting down half of your HP bar in a second.

 

3. Rapid Shots to proc Sweltering Heat.

 

4. I guess not? We have a ranged instant-cast stun though. Still, I was really hoping for a net or wire gun root like this:

 

5. We're a ranged class. Melee classes have the charge.

 

6. Energy Shield is pretty awesome. And with Energy Rebounder, expect to have it up regularly, if not often.

 

7. Kolto Overload? I'm sure Arsenal gets it too. Though personally, I wish Automated Defenses just instantly refreshed KO.

 

8. The only things you have to stand still for are Unload and Power Shot.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Suzut

[Stranded_Law]

What is this crap?

 

Not every single class should have the same toolbox. Every time I play an MMO and read their forums I think I've seen the biggest group of whiners around...and then I go on to the next and it happens all over again.

 

Stop being so bad, and maybe all these other problems will start sliding away. This is one of the easiest classes to face-roll and still do ridiculous damage. Sometimes the problem is not the class, it's you.

 

The game is still an infant, and the whining even for the second easiest and most flavor-of-the-month class is out of control. Maybe spend a little time in all the other class forums and realize every single one of them has something to complain about and then come back and realize you're just not very good and should probably shut your mouth about "BH problems".

 

The solution to every problem is not always "More CC". Survivability is 30% your abilities and 70% your skill as a player. So maybe when you find yourself dying too much, curb your ego for a few minutes and admit the 70% needs some work before complaining on the forums that your already incredibly powerful class needs a boost.

[il-jumper]

lol try playing sniper/gunslinger

[Dasgruberg]

What is this crap?

 

Not every single class should have the same toolbox. Every time I play an MMO and read their forums I think I've seen the biggest group of whiners around...and then I go on to the next and it happens all over again.

 

Stop being so bad, and maybe all these other problems will start sliding away. This is one of the easiest classes to face-roll and still do ridiculous damage. Sometimes the problem is not the class, it's you.

 

The game is still an infant, and the whining even for the second easiest and most flavor-of-the-month class is out of control. Maybe spend a little time in all the other class forums and realize every single one of them has something to complain about and then come back and realize you're just not very good and should probably shut your mouth about "BH problems".

 

The solution to every problem is not always "More CC". Survivability is 30% your abilities and 70% your skill as a player. So maybe when you find yourself dying too much, curb your ego for a few minutes and admit the 70% needs some work before complaining on the forums that your already incredibly powerful class needs a boost.

 

more or less truth

 

"Rock and paper are fine. Nerf scissors. -Paper"

[virtualmatrix]

Hahaha tell that to my skill tree...

 

All the time I hear, "BH's are OP" after I wipe someone clean from the map.

[Damarak]

I've come to the conclusion that mercs are the BEST pug WZ toons...as in, dont care about objectives cuz ur gonna lose anyway, so just pump massive dmg and get #1 dmg every single round, #1 kills, and lots of medals...

 

...If you actually want to grp up and have strategy and win WZs... we are god awful and serve no purpose.

 

I havent been #2 in damage in like 30+ warzones, I havent done less than 350k dmg in any warzone since I got geared... but give me the huttball, or make me actually try n defend someone from scoring, lol pointless. Invis and pulls, pushes, sorc lol runaway spells all kick our butts.

 

So as far as damage bragging rights go, its fun... but we have zero utility and no real way to help the team unless they start pushing the respawn timers longer where killing opponants matters, since if your not getting 35-50 kills per match, ur doing merc wrong (unless ur healin of course).

[Aeoneas]

You cannot be serious...

 

1: too bad, but on the other hand you are immune to those for 12 sec...

 

2: don't make me laugh, this kind of whine is beyond ridiculous, there are 3 classes with knockdown and 1 has to spec into it, other has it bound on knock-back

 

3: 2 knock-backs: check

 

4: 2 knock-backs: check.

 

5: have no idea what you wanted to say with this one (tracer missile spam is worse then any kind of opener, biggest armor reduction on stance + buff from spamming...)

 

6: heavy armor: check. by far best tanking in-game: check. by far best consistent damage reduction skills: check.

 

7: great healing without any resource problems or restrictions (wave to scoundrel healer), immunity to interrupt 12 sec.. FIXED % damage reduction protections on target

 

8: what fleeing enemies? you hit people for 4k spammable crits, not like someone will flee without vanish

 

In order to see how much survivability you actually have in PVP, please roll a tank.

You will notice that their SHIELDS unlike your impossibly OP permanent damage reduction skills have chance (20%) to lower damage taken by 20% (works only on WHITE DAMAGE, so doesn't trigger on 80% of skills in game). That is average 4% damage reduction (0.2*0.2=0.04 just in case!). 1 skill that gives 40% damage reduction for 10 sec has 3 minute CD (and needs 11 points in tanking tree). You on the other hand have so many stacking damage reduction skills and buffs.. no further comment please.

 

Good you rerolled, one less tracer missile spammer.

 

Obviously not a Mercenary, **** whiner

[MrAronax]

Obviously not a Mercenary, **** whiner

 

Obviously can't play easiest class in game atm. Expecting to go full dps or aoe spec and kill anything 1v1..

[Mrs_Murder]

You cannot be serious...

 

1: too bad, but on the other hand you are immune to those for 12 sec...

 

2: don't make me laugh, this kind of whine is beyond ridiculous, there are 3 classes with knockdown and 1 has to spec into it, other has it bound on knock-back

 

3: 2 knock-backs: check

 

4: 2 knock-backs: check.

 

5: have no idea what you wanted to say with this one (tracer missile spam is worse then any kind of opener, biggest armor reduction on stance + buff from spamming...)

 

6: heavy armor: check. by far best tanking in-game: check. by far best consistent damage reduction skills: check.

 

7: great healing without any resource problems or restrictions (wave to scoundrel healer), immunity to interrupt 12 sec.. FIXED % damage reduction protections on target

 

8: what fleeing enemies? you hit people for 4k spammable crits, not like someone will flee without vanish

 

 

Not sure if trolling or....

 

1. Only healers are immune, if they spec it.

2. We don't even have the option to spec it.

3. Specced in arsenal.

4. Specced in arsenal.

5. Specced in arsenal.

6. Squishy as hell regardless of heavy armor. Mercs can't tank.

7. Shiz healing unless you're healing spec. Heal takes 2.5 sec and heals for 2k-ish. Again, healing spec.

8. We do not hit for 4k "spammable" crits, regardless of spec. With trinkets and adrenal and full champion I can crit for 4k.

 

L2p and stop trolling.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Mrs_Murder

[MajinUltima]

Right now many of you are probably saying well i top damage and kills in WZ's.

Let me tell you this right now. Once ranked play comes around you will some major balance issues.

1. No interrupt.

2. No knockdown. Stun is inferior to knockdown due to animation time of opponent getting up

3. No kiting ability.

4. no root.

5. no distance opener due to melee charge/vanish mechanics.

6. No consistent damage reduction. AKA, SORC shields, OP evade/absorb/hunker down/ ect..

7. No Hots

8. No mobility to catch fleeing enemies.

Welcome to Ret paladin 2.0

 

1. Oh well.

2. A stun is a stun, you also have 1-2 knockbacks, on shorter cooldowns than other classes.

3. Pyrotech, make your Combustion DOT add a slow.

4. Not all classes need a root.

5. A mobile spammable slow + 1-2 knockbacks, I'd say you have a few options to open up distance, as well as to close distance.

6. Heavy Armor is pretty damn consistent, try playing a Sorc and see how squishy one really is.

7. DPS Sorcs don't get any either, and I doubt ANY dps class gets any HOTs... does Operative?

8. You're a ranged class, deal with it... also, points #3 and #5.

 

Sounds like most of your issues come to general whining, not knowing your class, or not knowing you have a spec option other than Tracer Missile 11111111!11!1!!1 spam.

[xArionx]

I love how all the replies in this thread are from people who don't play a merc. The point is, merc's would be fine if not op if we had 10-15 extra talent points to spend. The only spec that's fine for merc is if they go 31 points into healing.

 

I'll never spec arsenal again because as soon as you blow jetboost you're dead. Merc's need a slow (even if it's on a 15 second CD and only lasts 4-5 seconds) to prevent melee from sticking to us.

 

And if your answer is to spec pyrotech then jetboost is effectively useless (it doesn't knockback far unless the specced, and the 2 second slow is basically done by the time you can move again from the knockback) and we'll lose our other knockback (which isn't worth mentioning since it only does 4 meters).

 

Play a bh merc and tell me how much fun it is to be completely shut down if even just one person goes for you. You'll blow every defensive cooldown we have to get a melee off you and in about 6-8 seconds they'll be back on top of you and you'll have no way of getting them off.

 

Sincerely,

a bh who realized we're useless unless spec'd for healing (and don't get me wrong, merc healing is borderline OP right now if you know how to play).

 

and don't get me wrong, I love healing, it's why I rolled a merc, but it's pretty sad that merc's pretty much have to go heals if they want to be truely valuable to their team.

Edited January 22, 2012 by xArionx

[krameriffic]

Arsenal spec is a one trick pony. Tracer missile spam into heatseeker, railshot and unload does a lot of damage, but offers no utility or mobility. It's easy to play but the skill ceiling is quite low. What more can you besides this? If you are in a position where you have to run away (and you will be against decent enemies) your CDs are terrible, your gap opener is pretty good, but lots of classes can close it again without issue. The class has a lack of viable options and focuses too heavily on tracer missile. There are so many abilities that are completely pointless past level 20 when you get tracer missile.

 

Yeah, it's easy to play a positioning game and deal ****loads of damage, but it's hard to contribute beyond that.

[armaguedon]

I have a 50 DPS sorcerer close to R6.

 

I finish most of the time number one or two in DPS doing 300 to 500k depending of the WZ.

 

I tried to reroll a BH merc. It's a nice class at low level with very high damage capacity.

 

At lvl 11 i did 240k in a WZ. I dont think it's possible to do with a sorcerer at this level.

 

Sorcerer at low level have less survivability and less DPS output. But after 35-40, things ll change. Sorcerer at high level have very high DPS output with a lot of survivability options. At least in close fields. In open fields it's different.

 

At 50 1 vs 1, BH merc are easy to kill if not spec healer. I just need to interrupt them and it's generally done. Generally not all the time.

 

Vs merc Healer it's completly different, impossible to kill them if i am solo.

 

My worst nightmare are OP. My cousin has one. We made a lot of duel to see how i can take an OP in solo. My final conclusion : impossible to kill a well played OP in 1 v 1 as a DPS sorcerer. If i want to survive to OP 1 v 1, i need to be healer not DPS.

 

I agree with you guys. Actually BH merc are nice in DPS ouput but need some utility tools to shine at high level.

 

Anyway in this game it seems ranged DPS class still weak vs most class in 1 v 1. I talk about open fields like ilum not WZ like hutball.

Edited January 23, 2012 by armaguedon

[TheOriginalTrey]

It seems like everyone on every forum has a problem with every class. If no class is effective doesn't that mean they're all on equal footing? I'm definitely not saying anyone is wrong. It just seems like everyone hates their class.

[Joshthenosh]

You guys are either crazy or you suck!!!!

 

BHs are so strong in PvP

 

 

Now its you not the class that has problems, and im not being mean but it really is learn to play your class issues.

 

We have range we have crazy damage we have a shield heavy armour we have heals, an earth shield instant heals.

 

If you have specced all the way up the arsenal tree and start trading tracers with a hybrid your going to lose cause hes healing every shot you fire.

 

Sort your spec out and be a bit clever and use your tools and you will be awesome, nearly everyone in my guild is hybrid spec mercs now cause is that good.

[Kinediks]

Merc healers need tools, I do fine as Pyrotech. A level 43 Smuggler doing 4k hits on me and killing me right after a stun is what I have a problem with. How the hell does anyone survive against these guys? What the hell got nerfed? Only the ones above 40 give me problems. Kolto shield gives me what, 2 ticks before I'm dead? If I have 20% health left and i'm free, I pop Overload for a 15% heal over 150 minutes. I'll try to cast a heal, if I get it off I still die. I'm going to have to make more bio med packs and stims because I can't survive the hits. I'm level 39

[Kutalion]

 

 

Please buff commando.

[diogolp]

First of all, people talking about balance before they reach 50 need to go away and level. No game should balance it's classes around what happens in a 10-49 pvp bracket.

 

At 50, bounty hunters are fine in group. Yes, we are terrible 1 v 1, but if we were to be great in group and great in 1 v 1 we'd be god mode. Operatives are like that, and they are getting a much deserved nerf. BH are easily the best pvp healers, have great aoe damage, and as pyros can single handedly lock down any of the turrets or doors in warzones.

 

Yes, 1 v 1 operatives and consulars own me with all the stuns. But if I were to add a lot of cc, or anti cc, to a class that can do massive burst damage or great healing, we'd be completely overpowered.

[Pysee]

Things I would like to see:

1) Hot added to kolto missle talented

 

2) Interrupt please?

 

3) Some kind of talent that refreshes emergency scan when you drop below 30% hp or make it heal for twice as much if the target is below 30% hp.

 

4) longer hot on healing scan

 

5) being able to actually cure cc off party members

 

Thanks!

[diogolp]

Things I would like to see:

1) Hot added to kolto missle talented

 

2) Interrupt please?

 

3) Some kind of talent that refreshes emergency scan when you drop below 30% hp or make it heal for twice as much if the target is below 30% hp.

 

4) longer hot on healing scan

 

5) being able to actually cure cc off party members

 

Thanks!

 

Why not an "I win" button while you are at it?

In pvp, we are already virtually unkillable as healers. You need several people pounding on you to die, already.

 

As I said, dps mercs suffer in 1v1 but are great in group, so if they buffed 1v1 they'd have to nerf our burst in group. But merc healing in pvp is fine. It is more than fine. We are easily the best pvp healers around.

[jneim]

I'm so tired of seeing people complain about this class.... Learn *** you're doing and you wont have a problem.... People expect a f*****g "I win" button against every class. If you gave me a blink or dash to get away or another interrupt or knockdown I'd literally be a monster....

 

If you get ***** 1v1 = reroll or l2p

 

If you think we have no survivability = respec or reroll

 

If you QQ about doing no damage = Your bad

 

If you complain about not having an interrupt = check your skills and learn LoS

 

If you complain about kiting = Look at pyrotech

 

If you CAN'T kite as pyro = reroll

 

If your doing bad in PvP in general = Adjust your play style, look at your rotation AND FFS learn the classes your fighting. KNOW what abilities they are using LEARN when to use your stun and jet boost if you lose a 1v1 and they are at 15% health when you die your not bad nor did you get *****, you got outplayed.

 

Study the class(es) if you mess up a rotation you'll overheat and your dead.. If you pop your stun at the wrong time or jet boost at the wrong time you'll die. This is due to lack of concentration and thinking... Its the player thats broken not the class..

Edited January 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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