SWTOR endgame is an absolute disaster

[Aluvi]

Lmao and to think that those 'beta testers' that were chosen would actually TEST the game to report bugs..... instead of playing it as if it were free....

 

Because it's possible to go from level 1 to cap, get decently geared, and run through normal, hard, and nightmare operations in a weekend, right?

 

There's a very good reason that we were only allowed to play for 3-4 days at a time before our characters were wiped and we had to start over: the end game was extremely rushed and not finished.

 

I participated in 2 beta tests, you were lucky if you could get to 40 if you played for 12-14 hours per day every day of the beta, and that was if you blew through every cinematic with spacebar and ignored all aspects of the game except completing quests.

 

So no, it is not the fault of the beta testers that content which was essentially unreachable during beta due to time constraints is now terribly buggy. It is Bioware/EA's fault for not properly testing it in house or having it tested by beta testers

 

The parts of the game that WERE accessible to beta testers (questing and pvp leveling up) do work quite well and provide a good experience.

 

What really kills me is that the 1.1 patch notes claimed that they fixed a ton of things, yet my guild walks into Hardmode EV and the bugged ability on the first boss that randomly one shots people that was specifically "fixed" according to the patch notes for 1.1, is not fixed!

 

The end game still needs a lot of work, and right now, after playing D3 beta, I know which game I'll be going with..

[Tool_of_Society]

Oh right and i forgot about Onyxia, which was opened a month before release, and unchanged for a very very long time. Took until march 05 before some one killed Onyxia.

 

Reminds me of a conversation in guild last night. one of the guys was like "yay, hard karrags place (or whatever) cleared".

 

And i'm like, wait, wasn't this operation released yesterday?

 

Now keep in mind that the guys in the guild aren't that good. Definitely not the top 100 guild we were in BC and WotLK. Those guys that are actually good at this game would have cleared all the content by now. 2 days after the new content was released.

 

Then they get to go back to farming pvp gear right?

Onyxia was NOT available upon release. The only end game available on release was basically strat schol and LBRS...

[EchoTwoOmega]

If you have a problem with bugs, you should just stop playing PC, PS3, Xbox360 and Wii games altogether. EVERY game has them, its just a fact of life. Get over it.

 

Go learn how to program a computer.

Learn how to debug code.

Learn how to debug an applicaiton with a code base thats over 2+ million lines of code.

Now lets talk about bugs.

[Valnarr]

Onyxia was NOT available upon release. The only end game available on release was basically strat schol and LBRS...

 

You are completely wrong.

Both Onyxia's lair and Molten Core were avaliable on release of WoW.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Onyxia's_Lair

 

Onyxia's Lair was originally a level 60, 40-player raid dungeon, only one of two that were available upon release of World of Warcraft (the other being Molten Core)

Edited January 21, 2012 by Valnarr

[Leenbh]

You are so completely wrong.

Both Onyxia's lair and Molten Core were avaliable on release of WoW.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Onyxia's_Lair

 

It was there but not playable.

[Leenbh]

I think alot of you are just tired of MMO's in general and can't admit it.

[Wrevan]

WoW's endgame, I mean endgrind, is much, MUCH worse. see sig.

[Cropkiller]

First and foremost let me assure you that when I say that SWTOR's endgame is a huge mess I am saying this from experience as myself and my guild are one of the most progressed around. We are 4/5 nightmare mode in EV already and most of us have been level 50 since late december. We have consumed all of the content SWTOR has to offer and what we have experienced is alarming.

 

The flashpoints themselves had (and continue) to have tons of bugs. While some of these have been fixed, the very fact they existed and went live in the firstplace is phenomenal. Until 1.1 3/4 of the flashpoints had unlootable chests. If you managed to beat the instance you would get nothing from most bosses which had chests instead of loot from their bodies. This bug existed for an entire month without Bioware actually addressing it which I find unbelievable. Most companies would have jumped all over a bug like this as soon as it was discovered and had a hotfix out ASAP. bioware however took weeks to finally address this massive issue. then there was the "one of your party is locked to a current flaspoint" bug. This bug made it impossible for a certain person with this bug to enter a flaspoint. The hilarious thing is the bug was able to be passed from one character to another like a disease (this was also the only way to fix it!). To get rid of this bug you would have to figure out who had the bug and have someone else create a lvl 1 alt who you invited to party to pass the bug onto it and then the alt would have it. This bug persisted for weeks! Talk about outrageous.

 

Raids were and continue to be even more of a disaster IMO. There are so many bugs and problems with both raid clusters and each individual fights I will only focus on the most disgusting of them.

 

1. In Eternity Vault there was a bug with master loot where if the Raid leader had master loot on and went to pass loot out on the corpse most of the loot would disapear! Only commndations and crafting mats and schematics would be on the corpse while set gear and other drops would simply not be there. The only way to work around this is to have to loot by random loot and everyone having to be careful not to roll on something.

 

2. Bosses would bug out and do all sorts of fun things. The worst involved Gharj. Gharj would bug out and make it so you couldnt re-enter the raid because you were stuck in combat even though noone was in zone. He would then KILL the entire raid while they were outside EV and in the fleet! The only thing you could do was to reset the instance and re-clear 20-30 min of trash.

 

3. The brand new raid Kraggas palace which just released a few days ago is hilariously bad. First off the very first boss, Bonethrasher cannot be tanked and has a very fast enrage timer which means tanks on the fight are useless. This means most guilds trying to get him in HM/NM mode HAVE to sit out tanks (and often melee DPS due to punishing mechanics) if they wanna kill him. Wats funny is the very next boss fight has two bosses which requires TWO TANKS on HM/NM mode. Better hope your guild has extra people who like sitting outside the zone and wont get to fight certain bosses! Also whoever itemized Kraggas palace has no understanding of the game or is downright lazy as all the bosses in Kraggas commonly drop loot which cannot be used by the classes it goes to (this may just be a normal mode issue though). My Bounty Hunter for example, recieved light armor pants with willpower on them ***! Does Bioware even test this stuff?

 

4. Finally the worst raid boss ever created is Soa, the final boss in EV. This may be the single most bugged raid boss I have ever seen. This encounter has so many bugs it would take me 5 pages to explain them all in detail so here are the worst ones. Just last night on hard mode we encountered these ones. After a wipe, sometimes the floor in Soa's room would be half missing and you would have to reset the raid and run back. On the final phase the tank has to kite Soa and get pillars to drop on him so his shield drops and he becomes vunerable. A number of times the pillar would hit him but his shield stayed up! Because of this our guild failed 3 times to Soa and turned what would have been a win into another wipe. We were unable to get beat him because of this garbage yet again. Finally many guilda re reporting Soa after patch 1.1 isnt even dropping loot except for mounts and craft junk. Bioware again is sitting on their hands and taking their sweet time with all of these issue.

 

 

 

I wont even get into PvP issues............but I think most of us are aware of the many problems there.

 

 

 

There are other things as well which are not quite endgame related but incredibly frustrating. Myself and thousands of others who have high end gaming rigs are getting awful performance in SWTOR. I get 10-20 FPS in places like PvP/fleet even though I have a 6970 for crying out loud! I get 50 FPS minimum on high+ settings in every other game I own (BF3, Witcher 2, Rift) but for some reason I get 10 FPS at times in SWTOR. Pathetic.

 

 

 

Lastly, SWTOR is missing the most basic of MMO features like a COMBAT LOG!. What MMO these days releases without a freaking combat log?!!!!!

 

 

 

I really wanted this game to be good and I was expecting it to at least be mediocre and be well polished but to my absolute shock SWTOR is probably the most unpolished and buggy MMO I have every played. How could a game with a budget alledgedly topping $200 Million be this bad? HOW?

 

 

 

For those of you enjoying the game and planning to stick with it, good luck to you and I applaud your patience. SWTOR isnt without its merits of course but as a whole this is the most disapointing launch I have experienced in my 15 years of MMO gaming.

 

/agree

 

I have experienced all of these issues, as I'm sure many others have as well. I enjoyed the amazing leveling process, but as with any mmo, I eagerly anticipated end game at 50. Sadly I was disappointed with almost all aspects of endgame: pvp bag RNG, buggy Ops, random loot on normal mode Ops... Most people recommend leveling alts and taking it slow. Well I don't want to take it slow. I like focusing on a single character and making them the best they can be, which is painful to say the least. Also, why are companions not on the Ops frame?????

[Valnarr]

It was there but not playable.

 

What do you mean it was not playable?

 

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/16397-WoW_world_first_list

 

This shows the world first kill on Onyxia January 30th 2005, only 2 months after the release of WoW.

 

Most of those 2 months can be accounted for by taking in consideration how long it took to get over 40 people to 60, gearing them up to raid status through dungeons, and getting the keyed to Onyxia's Lair and then finally learning the execution of the fight.

 

So it really doesn't seem like that raid was unplayable at launch.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Valnarr

[DimitriM]

I see people blaming beta testers for this.

 

I was one, and I can say this; good luck trying to test high end raids with your characters getting wiped on almost every major beta build. We had to start over from level 1 several times. For one this was incredibly frusterating, but two it was demoralizing. We had to level all over again only to have everything wiped in 2 months time?

 

They released a server where the character would be created at level 50, but that server was not open to all testers and most people made classes they didn't fully know how to play.

Edited January 21, 2012 by DimitriM

[Rhyn]

Yeah I have a whole new appreciation for the WoW devs now. Blizzard's devs are g0ddamn geniuses compared to the drool cup helmet kids designing for BioWare.

 

Must have no idea what wow was like when it launched. Remember you can always go back.

[Starglide]

First and foremost let me assure you that when I say that SWTOR's endgame is a huge mess I am saying this from experience as myself and my guild are one of the most progressed around. We are 4/5 nightmare mode in EV already and most of us have been level 50 since late december. We have consumed all of the content SWTOR has to offer and what we have experienced is alarming.

 

The flashpoints themselves had (and continue) to have tons of bugs. While some of these have been fixed, the very fact they existed and went live in the firstplace is phenomenal. Until 1.1 3/4 of the flashpoints had unlootable chests. If you managed to beat the instance you would get nothing from most bosses which had chests instead of loot from their bodies. This bug existed for an entire month without Bioware actually addressing it which I find unbelievable. Most companies would have jumped all over a bug like this as soon as it was discovered and had a hotfix out ASAP. bioware however took weeks to finally address this massive issue. then there was the "one of your party is locked to a current flaspoint" bug. This bug made it impossible for a certain person with this bug to enter a flaspoint. The hilarious thing is the bug was able to be passed from one character to another like a disease (this was also the only way to fix it!). To get rid of this bug you would have to figure out who had the bug and have someone else create a lvl 1 alt who you invited to party to pass the bug onto it and then the alt would have it. This bug persisted for weeks! Talk about outrageous.

 

Raids were and continue to be even more of a disaster IMO. There are so many bugs and problems with both raid clusters and each individual fights I will only focus on the most disgusting of them.

 

1. In Eternity Vault there was a bug with master loot where if the Raid leader had master loot on and went to pass loot out on the corpse most of the loot would disapear! Only commndations and crafting mats and schematics would be on the corpse while set gear and other drops would simply not be there. The only way to work around this is to have to loot by random loot and everyone having to be careful not to roll on something.

 

2. Bosses would bug out and do all sorts of fun things. The worst involved Gharj. Gharj would bug out and make it so you couldnt re-enter the raid because you were stuck in combat even though noone was in zone. He would then KILL the entire raid while they were outside EV and in the fleet! The only thing you could do was to reset the instance and re-clear 20-30 min of trash.

 

3. The brand new raid Kraggas palace which just released a few days ago is hilariously bad. First off the very first boss, Bonethrasher cannot be tanked and has a very fast enrage timer which means tanks on the fight are useless. This means most guilds trying to get him in HM/NM mode HAVE to sit out tanks (and often melee DPS due to punishing mechanics) if they wanna kill him. Wats funny is the very next boss fight has two bosses which requires TWO TANKS on HM/NM mode. Better hope your guild has extra people who like sitting outside the zone and wont get to fight certain bosses! Also whoever itemized Kraggas palace has no understanding of the game or is downright lazy as all the bosses in Kraggas commonly drop loot which cannot be used by the classes it goes to (this may just be a normal mode issue though). My Bounty Hunter for example, recieved light armor pants with willpower on them ***! Does Bioware even test this stuff?

 

4. Finally the worst raid boss ever created is Soa, the final boss in EV. This may be the single most bugged raid boss I have ever seen. This encounter has so many bugs it would take me 5 pages to explain them all in detail so here are the worst ones. Just last night on hard mode we encountered these ones. After a wipe, sometimes the floor in Soa's room would be half missing and you would have to reset the raid and run back. On the final phase the tank has to kite Soa and get pillars to drop on him so his shield drops and he becomes vunerable. A number of times the pillar would hit him but his shield stayed up! Because of this our guild failed 3 times to Soa and turned what would have been a win into another wipe. We were unable to get beat him because of this garbage yet again. Finally many guilda re reporting Soa after patch 1.1 isnt even dropping loot except for mounts and craft junk. Bioware again is sitting on their hands and taking their sweet time with all of these issue.

 

 

 

I wont even get into PvP issues............but I think most of us are aware of the many problems there.

 

 

 

There are other things as well which are not quite endgame related but incredibly frustrating. Myself and thousands of others who have high end gaming rigs are getting awful performance in SWTOR. I get 10-20 FPS in places like PvP/fleet even though I have a 6970 for crying out loud! I get 50 FPS minimum on high+ settings in every other game I own (BF3, Witcher 2, Rift) but for some reason I get 10 FPS at times in SWTOR. Pathetic.

 

 

 

Lastly, SWTOR is missing the most basic of MMO features like a COMBAT LOG!. What MMO these days releases without a freaking combat log?!!!!!

 

 

 

I really wanted this game to be good and I was expecting it to at least be mediocre and be well polished but to my absolute shock SWTOR is probably the most unpolished and buggy MMO I have every played. How could a game with a budget alledgedly topping $200 Million be this bad? HOW?

 

 

 

For those of you enjoying the game and planning to stick with it, good luck to you and I applaud your patience. SWTOR isnt without its merits of course but as a whole this is the most disapointing launch I have experienced in my 15 years of MMO gaming.

 

My guild is rushing in Nightmare mode too and I don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand it.

 

Trust me, I am in every thread begging BioWare to fix responsiveness, but in my opinion that is all that needs IMMEDIATE addressing.

 

I was world ranked in WoW.. in a US 84th guild up until 7 months ago. I told my guildies the same as I will tell you as everyone made it a cut throat race to get to 50 and get into raiding.

 

Why are you rushing? There is no combat log and everything is not polished 100% (which should have been expected). Therefore, TRUE difficult content (I don't mean nightmare gear checks and patience sitting through mechanic bugs) cannt be delivered because there is no parse, logs or polish to execute such conditions. You can't out difficult mechanics in a game when people can't see what they are doing wrong or completely blame themselves for whipes. RNG happens every time you whipe in TOR it might be the games fault. This is why you can't put extra or difficult mechanics in the fights.

 

Honestly, if I wasn't following the game and didn't want to experience TOR and WAIT until a few months to start getting hardcore, I would be with the true hardcore raiders back in WoW waiting for this game to get serious a few months from now (polish etc..).

 

You are rushing to complete content when there isn't even an achievement system to prove how fast you've don't nightmare modes and you are going to be sitting with the same tier of gear for a while during the growing pain and fixing process. At least this game has SOME end game unlike other failed MMOs. And honestly, they are pumping out content.

 

I appreciate what you have achieved, but you aren't competing against anyone worth it man. This game isn't ready for hardcore but it is steadily getting there as they get leveled out.

[Offended]

What do you mean it was not playable?

 

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/16397-WoW_world_first_list

 

This shows the world first kill on Onyxia January 30th 2005, only 2 months after the release of WoW.

 

Most of those 2 months can be accounted for by taking in consideration how long it took to get over 40 people to 60, gearing them up to raid status through dungeons, and getting the keyed to Onyxia's Lair and then finally learning the execution of the fight.

 

So it really doesn't seem like that raid was unplayable at launch.

 

they aren't interested in things such as facts. Warcraft was released with a lvl cap at 50 so they could finish working on the raids stratholme, UBRS, LBRS, SM graveyard and Molten Core.

 

There was also so many bugs that characters randomly exploded dealing 9999 dmg to all NPC's and PC's in a 100 yard range. Flight paths would also randomly dive bomb into buildings which destroyed them and killed babies.

 

 

What else did wow do at launch that people like to make up out of thin air ?

[Leenbh]

they aren't interested in things such as facts. Warcraft was released with a lvl cap at 50 so they could finish working on the raids stratholme, UBRS, LBRS, SM graveyard and Molten Core.

 

There was also so many bugs that characters randomly exploded dealing 9999 dmg to all NPC's and PC's in a 100 yard range. Flight paths would also randomly dive bomb into buildings which destroyed them and killed babies.

 

 

What else did wow do at launch that people like to make up out of thin air ?

 

lulwut?

[Offended]

lulwut?

 

Your comment saying that it was there just not playable also belong in my category of making things up out of thin air.

[Mantiszz]

Your comment saying that it was there just not playable also belong in my category of making things up out of thin air.

 

Then there was the patch a year into the game that literally broke the game, people couldn't log in and nobody could play properly for a few days.

 

Then remember the virus that infected everyone in the capital cities.I remember orgrimmar with people running around healing themsleves and bodies littering the ground.

 

You can tell how long people actually played wow by how they write their posts.

[Motafication]

Go do something else. lvl 50 in 2 weeks screams no life.

[radersdad]

Go do something else. lvl 50 in 2 weeks screams no life.

 

It screams player with plenty of time on their hands (and probably in a beta) so they knew how to rush.

 

Your post screams no life.

[Tool_of_Society]

You are completely wrong.

Both Onyxia's lair and Molten Core were avaliable on release of WoW.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Onyxia's_Lair

Wow wiki is completely wrong but you don't know that because you didn't actually play the game back then. I KNEW you were getting your information from wow wiki as I ran into that error long ago. Unfortunately no one there is interested in fixing it.

 

Onyxia and MC went live a month or so after the game was released. On a whole the encounters weren't very difficult so the content was cleared very quickly. Onyxia herself was down within a month of the release of the content patch.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[Halofax]

Wiki = written by ignorant players for ignorant players.

[Gobrot]

they aren't interested in things such as facts. Warcraft was released with a lvl cap at 50 so they could finish working on the raids stratholme, UBRS, LBRS, SM graveyard and Molten Core.

 

There was also so many bugs that characters randomly exploded dealing 9999 dmg to all NPC's and PC's in a 100 yard range. Flight paths would also randomly dive bomb into buildings which destroyed them and killed babies.

 

 

What else did wow do at launch that people like to make up out of thin air ?

 

Level cap at release was 40

[Leenbh]

Your comment saying that it was there just not playable also belong in my category of making things up out of thin air.

 

Everything you just said is what's been made up. You're getting your information wrong there.

[Seeiphiel]

@ValaxDarkseer - You sir are a complete moron. Try using critical thinking skills before complaining.

 

You do realize that WoW didn't even have endgame content for the first 3 months after launch right? lmao

 

Stop trolling, ValaxDarkseer. Blizzard and Trion aren't paying you enough because you are a terrible troll.

[trulam]

Level cap at release was 40

 

Level cap at release was 50. Beta'd wow and played religiously till swtor was released.

But yes, nothing hardly worked the first few months of wow so they did not charge us for almost 3 months till they got stuff fixed. And let's not forget that MC didn't get released for raiding, for what? 6 months after release? And I have two words for u that I absolutely hated, Loot Lag. Atleast this game does not have that.

[OverclockFTW]

I still chuckle when people use WoW and "hardcore" in the same sentence.

 

*w*

 

In any case, the OP has legitimate concerns about this game, but he's basically complaining about problems that every single MMO has at launch.

 

The most important issue this game needs addressed is the skill stuttering, and getting a first set of fixes in a couple of days.

 

content will be added and polished as time goes on.

 

Though I'm a competitive pvper, enjoy raiding, and normally have the mentality that "The real game starts at lvl 50", this is NOT the case with swtor.

 

Leveling from 1-49 is one of the most entertaining and fun experiences I've had in an MMO. (And I've played every major one since the days of LOK/UO/EQ and onward, and some that haven't even released in the US)

 

But for someone to come into an MMO and expect an amazing array end game content, perfectly polished, a mere 30 days after launch, only shows the person truly has very little experience in MMOs.

Edited January 21, 2012 by OverclockFTW