Why people hate arenas

[Vlaid]

It's actually called - holding up a mirror.

 

Blizz denounced Arenas because of PvE balance. <------that is all I said. You're the one that went on a 5 year old tirade. If anything, you've only convinced more people how bad of an idea arenas is by your maturity level alone.

 

So....saying "I know you are but what am I?" is a good counter point or debate point to you?

 

Or flat out lieing about what Blizzard devs said when they didn't "denounce" arena at all, just made one small comment about how they would have rather implemented arena from the start if they were to do it over again, instead of slap it on later without as much control to seperate PVE and PVP?

 

But then you would have known all that if you ever read the original comment and quote yourself. Which you haven't.

[BloatedGuppy]

Arena also will draw in more player interest when they can see how they can pair up and learn the synergy of multiple classes in 3v3-4v4. You don't feel like you are just grinding against a timed wall playing huttball-alderaan-voidstar matches. You can start to feel your personal skill match against a small group of players opposed to getting zerged by 4-6 players in a bg.

 

I'm really only quoting you for the riot of color it will create.

 

There's nothing wrong with Arenas in CONCEPT. They're fine, they're hardly perfect, they're laughable in terms of actually being a skill demonstrator, but they're fun in their way.

 

In practice, they make balancing a nightmare. Either you have well balanced PvE and crazy haphazard in PvP, or visa versa. TOR is a PvE game first and foremost. Doesn't mean they can't do fun things with their PvP, but make a proper e-sport? It's never going to happen, people.

 

Just find a different game for that! There is no law that says you have to get everything from one game.

[iceperson]

If you promise not to change your name Ill promise to drop in on this game in like 1 or 2yr to see if your still playing, if you aren't then I win cause you quit like a kid. But if you are still playing you answer me honestly if sinking your time into this was worth it K?

 

I can't say that I'll be here a month from now. I'll stay as long as it's fun, then I'll move on. I might give some feedback when I leave from the cancel page, but that's about it. See, most of us just stop doing stuff that isn't fun anymore. We don't need to spend weeks trying to convince others that the fun they think they're having isn't really fun...

[Maasterrcsaw]

I can't say that I'll be here a month from now. I'll stay as long as it's fun, then I'll move on. I might give some feedback when I leave from the cancel page, but that's about it. See, most of us just stop doing stuff that isn't fun anymore. We don't need to spend weeks trying to convince others that the fun they think they're having isn't really fun...

 

Cool I am going to take that quote as a personal victory.

[Zomgasm]

It's not bold enough. Arena destroyed WoW, not just PVP. Titles and pretty gear for dueling? Ugh. Not to mention that they continually break classes so that they'll be "balanced for arena." There's plenty of games that gives you perfect balance, they aren't called MMOs

 

No **** captain obvious. Sorry everyone doesn't want to play Call of Duty full time. You can only achieve that through FPS games for "perfect balance" and the only game that managed to do that and is still being played tournament wise is Counter-Strike. There is a real game where you don't get stupid perks and dumb airstrikes and headshots/hitboxes actually register properly.

[belialle]

Watch your mouth you 1600 Death Knight.

 

Oh, no you didn't.

 

I do kind of wish I'd had a DK when they were able to solo the 2's bracket to 1800 and beyond though.

[Maasterrcsaw]

Oh, no you didn't.

 

I do kind of wish I'd had a DK when they were able to solo the 2's bracket to 1800 and beyond though.

 

Ok the Hunter has been found out.

[AntoniusDelitan]

There is a real game where you don't get stupid perks and dumb airstrikes and headshots/hitboxes actually register properly.

 

haha qft! =]

[Khroul_]

The Arena is only a valid idea if classes are balanced, and gear / team comp is removed.

The only valid Arena to display skill is 1v1, Duels.

 

Look at WoW. Getting carried to the top is easy, and resilience dumbs PVP down so far that it doesn't actually take any skill to win. It becomes a gear contest. Furthermore, the time required to make decisions and take action is increased greatly because of the increased survivability.

 

Go watch a 2200+ Arena match in WoW. It's boring.

[Maasterrcsaw]

The Arena is only a valid idea if classes are balanced, and gear / team comp is removed.

The only valid Arena to display skill is 1v1, Duels.

 

Look at WoW. Getting carried to the top is easy, and resilience dumbs PVP down so far that it doesn't actually take any skill to win. It becomes a gear contest. Furthermore, the time required to make decisions and take action is increased greatly because of the increased survivability.

 

Go watch a 2200+ Arena match in WoW. It's boring.

 

Cool I will guess you are a frost mage? and yeah getting carried by the Rogue and Priest is easy in that comp you just need to know how to poly... son.

[belialle]

Ok the Hunter has been found out.

 

I thought hunters couldn't stop crying about how disadvantaged they were in arenas.

 

Fine, you got me.

 

I was the 19 hunter in full herilooms that would hold the flag in WSG so no one could cap while I farmed the GY. Then I'd quit after 25 minutes so I wouldn't get any XP.

[belialle]

He's trolling. He's acknowledged he's trolling, so points for honesty at least. Stop lathering up. Just report and move on.

 

I know a troll when I see one. I'm bored, too. I'm not going to bother reporting him because I don't find his trolling all that offensive. Soon my car will be warm enough for me to sit comfortably and I'll be on my way. :]

Edited January 20, 2012 by belialle

[Dalindran]

When asked in the WarCry Network what "The Biggest Mistake was", Rob Pardo said and I quote:

WCN:What are you most proud of over the last five years? What was the biggest mistake you think you made?

 

"As for the biggest mistake? There's a lot of them that I think, were ... they just "fell out" of things. One example: I wish the servers were more stable when we launched, of course - there's a lot of that sort of thing. We have a lot of excuses for that - we didn't expect nearly the response - but we can't say it wasn't a mistake. If I was going to pick on a game design thing that I look back on and think was a mistake? We really never designed WoW to be a competitive e-sports game; it was something that we decided to start tackling because there was such a desire and demand to evolve it in that direction, to introduce competitive arenas. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do with the game."

 

As I said originally the developer in question refered to it as a mistake, and said as much. You can read the rest of the article where he discusses why it was a mistake here:

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6773-Five-Years-of-Warcraft-Speaking-With-Blizzards-Rob-Pardo.2

 

That game was not designed with an "E-sport" in mind, and neither was SWTOR, so why in heavens name would anyone want to tack something on like that, and watch the same problems arise and repeat themselves all over again here?

 

As others have already suggested, if you want to play an "E-Sport" there are already plenty of games available to take part in such. An MMO where PvE and PvP coexist will never make an "e-sport" that works unless it is designed with that in mind from the ground up. Nuff said.

 

Have fun !

[Maasterrcsaw]

I thought hunters couldn't stop crying about how disadvantaged they were in arenas.

 

Fine, you got me.

 

I was the 19 hunter in full herilooms that would hold the flag in WSG so no one could cap while I farmed the GY. Then I'd quit after 25 minutes so I wouldn't get any XP.

 

Well I had a 19 twink rogue to and I would destroy your huntard and make you look like a little girl.

[Leporello]

Whatever bad things people say about Arena matches, some of them true, I'd still prefer an Arena to the PvP choices we have currently.

[Maasterrcsaw]

I am bad @ WoW

 

Ok?..

[AssistSenn]

It's a lot easier to call someone low skill if they don't have a way to prove otherwise.

 

It's easier to just get carried in warzones to get gear.

 

You have to use more abilities, and in some cases spec weird to be optimal.

 

You have to actually contribute.

 

You have to accept some people enjoy a different playstyle then you do.

 

There is a possibility they might tweak your class (they are going to do this anyways).

 

You don't have the advantage of steamrolling pugs, there are none.

 

If you don't like arenas you don't like them. But to say they shouldn't exist because you personally don't care for them is ridiculous. It is an aspect of a game, it's exclusion only polarizes a demographic Bioware is trying to keep.

 

So you think there should be arenas that give gear as well? Since when do people not get carried in Arenas?

 

Group vs Group is fun in open world, where dynamics of a fight change. Pug vs Pug is fun in an instance where dynamics change because of player skill. Equal player skill and equal gear Arenas are terrible because they're a roll of the dice who wins rather than who actually plays better. All Arenas show is who puts more time into leveling new characters for the optimal group in a specific size instance. It's not all this player skill that people hype it up to be. Since when is it considered skill that you can push a series of 4 buttons in the correct order to optimally play your character? Changing in a dynamic fight is skill, there's nothing dynamic in an instanced Arena.

 

Posts like this remind me how bad the PvP scene is in these theme-park MMO's. You tools that think Arena players are the gods of PvP should go try some of the true sandbox PvP games out there. Then you'll realize just how skill-less this style of PvP is.

 

Arenas require skill... man I hate forum sarcasm.

[AntoniusDelitan]

Whatever bad things people say about Arena matches, some of them true, I'd still prefer an Arena to the PvP choices we have currently.

 

I'd prefer chewing on tinfoil instead of being forced into another arena-clone to get the best PvP gear around.

[belialle]

Well I had a 19 twink rogue to and I would destroy your huntard and make you look like a little girl.

No, I would cry like a man. A burly, manly man.

 

If you knew me irl, though, you'd know how creepy that actually is.

[Maasterrcsaw]

No, I would cry like a man. A burly, manly man.

 

If you knew me irl, though, you'd know how creepy that actually is.

 

I would wreck you at Runescape also.

[Rykke]

There are so many reasons.

 

1. You need to balance PvP against PvE. With warzones and open world PvP, you can have soft balance. It doesn't really matter if class A is slightly outperforming class B at any given interval, and it's unavoidable. For truly competitive PvP, you need hard balance. Everything needs to be honed as sharp as possible. How would you feel if one of your core PvP talents was nerfed because it was too effective in a raid encounter only 0.5% of the population ever saw? That's what we're looking at, here.

 

2. Not too many people are really capable of/interested in high level competitive PvP in MMOs. It's got niche appeal. That doesn't make it bad, but directing the enormous developer resources it requires to get working correctly to such a small percentage of the player base is not a good strategy.

 

3. It's ridiculous to have high level/competitive PvP in a game that has a gear gap in the first place. You need a flat playing field. It would be like winning a Starcraft game because your Ultralisks had epic armor. It's a terrible medium for e-sports, and if anyone really APPRECIATES e-sports, or just sports of any kind, they'll easily understand why.

 

4. Like raiding, it turns people into intolerable douchebags. The amount of preening and smack talking it promoted in WoW absolutely beggared the imagination. It made a hostile, toxic community even more intolerable, by order of magnitude. Apparently people just can't psychologically deal with being ranked, it makes them go insane.

 

I played WoW Arenas because I belonged to that group who were interested in that niche of PvP. Even this, I do not want Arenas at all in this game and this guy is only person I've seen bring up actual good reasons and I agree with him wholeheartedly.

 

If you are a true PvPer, you would have figured out that TOR does not have the foundation for that kind of PvP or you would have left already. People looking to hardcore PvP should wait for GW2, TOR's PvP can't be treated as such. Looking at some of the toolkits the various ACs have, they would be OP in an Arena setting; your favorite abilities will most likely get nerfed in order to reach some sort of balance. These same issues won't be as big of a deal in a Warzone enviroment.

 

I know the Devs said they were putting a big emphasis on PvP but are you going to keep telling yourself that? SWTOR's PvP is mediocore at best, I still enjoy it because ultimately moving as a squad with your friends on VOIP is what makes any game fun. There's no point trying to make this a "hardcore" or e-sport worthy PvP title(MMO PVP IS HARD) as standing with its current mechanics, it won't work.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Rykke

[jdnyc]

 

Or flat out lieing about what Blizzard devs said when they didn't "denounce" arena at all, just made one small comment about how they would have rather implemented arena from the start if they were to do it over again, instead of slap it on later without as much control to seperate PVE and PVP?

 

But then you would have known all that if you ever read the original comment and quote yourself. Which you haven't.

 

Completely false. LOL They said that they would of either made WoW more like an eSport game from the beginning or NOT DO IT AT ALL.

 

LOL seriously dude, just give up son. You've been wrong 24/7.

 

if I went back to when we had the idea two years later, I would have said, "Maybe we shouldn't go there." Sounds like he's denouncing the idea doesn't it?

 

Guess what? SWTOR wasn't designed as an eSport game. So all of us bringing up this interview, has complete merit. More over - past is prologue.

 

Check and mate

 

Oh here's the link to the article for you.

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6773-Five-Years-of-Warcraft-Speaking-With-Blizzards-Rob-Pardo.2

[Ravashakk]

People hate arena becouse if you are bad you will get stomped. And since wast majority of players is horrible, they will get stomped. Instead of actually thinking to improve they will just blame classes/system/gear.

 

TLDR Bads dont like being proven they are bads.

 

Whether you think it is a crutch or not, the fact remains in 2v2 and some 3v3s unless you were 1 of like 3 combos, you had no chance of taking them out assuming relatively equal skill/gear.

 

Anyone remember the old rdruid/sslock or rdruid/war combos? Those were the only teams that gave those 2 combos a run for their money because you are fighting a mirror!

[jdnyc]

When asked in the WarCry Network what "The Biggest Mistake was", Rob Pardo said and I quote:

WCN:What are you most proud of over the last five years? What was the biggest mistake you think you made?

 

"As for the biggest mistake? There's a lot of them that I think, were ... they just "fell out" of things. One example: I wish the servers were more stable when we launched, of course - there's a lot of that sort of thing. We have a lot of excuses for that - we didn't expect nearly the response - but we can't say it wasn't a mistake. If I was going to pick on a game design thing that I look back on and think was a mistake? We really never designed WoW to be a competitive e-sports game; it was something that we decided to start tackling because there was such a desire and demand to evolve it in that direction, to introduce competitive arenas. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do with the game."

 

As I said originally the developer in question refered to it as a mistake, and said as much. You can read the rest of the article where he discusses why it was a mistake here:

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6773-Five-Years-of-Warcraft-Speaking-With-Blizzards-Rob-Pardo.2

 

That game was not designed with an "E-sport" in mind, and neither was SWTOR, so why in heavens name would anyone want to tack something on like that, and watch the same problems arise and repeat themselves all over again here?

 

As others have already suggested, if you want to play an "E-Sport" there are already plenty of games available to take part in such. An MMO where PvE and PvP coexist will never make an "e-sport" that works unless it is designed with that in mind from the ground up. Nuff said.

 

Have fun !

 

LOL just saw you posted this too!

[Kunari]

There are so many reasons.

 

1. You need to balance PvP against PvE. With warzones and open world PvP, you can have soft balance. It doesn't really matter if class A is slightly outperforming class B at any given interval, and it's unavoidable. For truly competitive PvP, you need hard balance. Everything needs to be honed as sharp as possible. How would you feel if one of your core PvP talents was nerfed because it was too effective in a raid encounter only 0.5% of the population ever saw? That's what we're looking at, here.

 

2. Not too many people are really capable of/interested in high level competitive PvP in MMOs. It's got niche appeal. That doesn't make it bad, but directing the enormous developer resources it requires to get working correctly to such a small percentage of the player base is not a good strategy.

 

3. It's ridiculous to have high level/competitive PvP in a game that has a gear gap in the first place. You need a flat playing field. It would be like winning a Starcraft game because your Ultralisks had epic armor. It's a terrible medium for e-sports, and if anyone really APPRECIATES e-sports, or just sports of any kind, they'll easily understand why.

 

4. Like raiding, it turns people into intolerable douchebags. The amount of preening and smack talking it promoted in WoW absolutely beggared the imagination. It made a hostile, toxic community even more intolerable, by order of magnitude. Apparently people just can't psychologically deal with being ranked, it makes them go insane.

 

OMG, I think I love you.