PvP 'DPS' Immortal Build 32/7/2

[daays]

Guard, Taunt, AoE taunt or you know, just use the rest of my abilities. Between Choke, Backhand, Force Push, Charge and my Interrupt, there is plenty of disruption to go around.

 

I agree that Rage is a gimmick and that Vengeance is a better tree, but don't kid yourself either, there are much better DPS than you in the game and everytime you manage to kill someone, remember that it may be because someone else stunned that healer for you.

 

There are better DPS.

 

No one can compete with a sorc in Damage. In games i do 350k, he does 650k.

 

Jugg DPS is just something extra to bring. You're an amazing assist target with DPS because you only need to drop someone to 20% and execute will finish every time. You bring taunts/guard and are the best ball carrier around. So while an Operative may do higher damage, they really only bring damage.

 

You can stun the healer yourself. Often times I just slow them then throw them backwards and focus the DPS. Or fear them and focus the DPS.

 

Everything that Immortal can do Vengeance can do. You can still taunt, guard, interupt, and throw people. Difference is Vengeance actually does damage.

 

I've played all specs. I tried immortal as DPS and stopped once I realized that all my tanking stats were largely useless in PvP.

 

I played Rage until the 50 only bracket as you would just crit lower levels for 6k+ and destroy them instantly.

 

Vengeance is the best. It offers the best assist DPS in the game while having great survivability. And you can still use all your Jugg utility.

Edited January 23, 2012 by daays

[Khabarach]

If people are getting away from you as Vengeance then you're just a bad player.

 

Most people knock back into your immunity from unstoppable. If not then you simply force throw someone once you jump in and charge back.

 

They can't run because you just chilling scream them.

 

*** do you do as immortal? Charge, knock back, force throw, charge, knockback, congrats. You're useless.

 

Immortal is so easy to kite and push around the map it's a joke.

 

I like how both of you think having an extra stun on a 1min cooldown makes you just the king of lockdown and not one person will ever even move.

 

Bads will be bad. Immortal is fine if you don't wanna bother with dual spec, but it's an awful spec for PvP.

Or you could just pick up Unstoppable in your Immortal build...

Everything that Immortal can do Vengeance can do. You can still taunt, guard, interupt, and throw people. Difference is Vengeance actually does damage.

You still miss out:

 

Backhand Stun

Force Choke stun

30s CD reduction on your CC breaker

15s CD reduction on your AoE taunt

15s CD reduction on your Force Push

50% increased duration for Endure Pain

Damage bubble every 12 seconds

40% damage reduction talent

4% damage reduction for Internal/Elemental

 

All while still picking up Unstoppable.

 

Your claim that Immortal is awful for PvP is fairly ludicrous.

[daays]

Or you could just pick up Unstoppable in your Immortal build...

You still miss out:

 

Backhand Stun

Force Choke stun

30s CD reduction on your CC breaker

15s CD reduction on your AoE taunt

15s CD reduction on your Force Push

50% increased duration for Endure Pain

Damage bubble every 12 seconds

40% damage reduction talent

4% damage reduction for Internal/Elemental

 

All while still picking up Unstoppable.

 

Your claim that Immortal is awful for PvP is fairly ludicrous.

 

The two instant stuns are nice, but don't outweight the benefits of Vengeance DPS.

 

If you get unstoppable then you lose your 31 point talent in Immortal. Then you're really doing no damage at all.

 

Reduction on cool downs you need to be warry about, and right now don't warrent talent points put into them. You're not using them on cool down. If your AoE taunt comes up 15 seconds before me, but there is no one around, then someone shows up 10 seconds later, do you feel that 2 talent points is worth the extra 5 seconds? I don't.

 

Vengeance gives 4% DR on everything. Not to mention the constant 20% DR you get from charging/interceding around the map that Immortal do, which more than makes up for the 40% DR for 10 seconds on a 3min timer.

Edited January 23, 2012 by daays

[Shendaar]

There are better DPS.

 

No one can compete with a sorc in Damage. In games i do 350k, he does 650k.

 

Jugg DPS is just something extra to bring. You're an amazing assist target with DPS because you only need to drop someone to 20% and execute will finish every time. You bring taunts/guard and are the best ball carrier around. So while an Operative may do higher damage, they really only bring damage.

 

You can stun the healer yourself. Often times I just slow them then throw them backwards and focus the DPS. Or fear them and focus the DPS.

 

Everything that Immortal can do Vengeance can do. You can still taunt, guard, interupt, and throw people. Difference is Vengeance actually does damage.

 

I've played all specs. I tried immortal as DPS and stopped once I realized that all my tanking stats were largely useless in PvP.

 

I played Rage until the 50 only bracket as you would just crit lower levels for 6k+ and destroy them instantly.

 

Vengeance is the best. It offers the best assist DPS in the game while having great survivability. And you can still use all your Jugg utility.

 

There is no way that you can disrupt as much in Vengeance spec as an Immortal spec'd Jugg can. I often finish targets myself with Vicious Throw with or without the crit anyway, so that is hardly a big selling point. Does Vengeance do more damage than Immortal? Of course, but you don't bring nearly as much utility and the fact remains that there are much better DPS than you in the game. The truth though is that you rely on me as much as I rely on you. If someone wasn't there to stun enemy healers for you or to keep your healer alive you wouldn't get **** done and if I had no DPS to dish out the big number I wouldn't get **** done either. I tried all the trees as well and I came back to Immortal because it is much more versatile spec.

[daays]

There is no way that you can disrupt as much in Vengeance spec as an Immortal spec'd Jugg can. I often finish targets myself with Vicious Throw with or without the crit anyway, so that is hardly a big selling point. Does Vengeance do more damage than Immortal? Of course, but you don't bring nearly as much utility and the fact remains that there are much better DPS than you in the game. The truth though is that you rely on me as much as I rely on you. If someone wasn't there to stun enemy healers for you or to keep your healer alive you wouldn't get **** done and if I had no DPS to dish out the big number I wouldn't get **** done either. I tried all the trees as well and I came back to Immortal because it is much more versatile spec.

 

You're highly over selling an extra stun on a 1min timer. Is it good? Yes. But it doesn't go from making you this amazing disrupting person that's causing tons of chaos in-game. It's not spammable.

 

That's the only thing Immortal brings.

 

Vicious throw does 2500 damage. Someone with 17,500 hp will have 3,500 at 20%. Hardly finishing them off. As Vengeance though you will crit for 3500-3800.

 

An Operative right now has higher burst than me. You're right. They also have no survivability, no mobility, and can't make your teammates take less damage.

 

Which would you rather have?

 

Immortal does nothing but sponge damage, which you can do anyways as Vengeance while actually being able to kill people, rather than sitting there.

[Khabarach]

The two instant stuns are nice, but don't outweight the benefits of Vengeance DPS.

That's debatable and will depend on how you play.

If you get unstoppable then you lose your 31 point talent in Immortal. Then you're really doing no damage at all.

Which is fine. Killing things is not the focus of the Immortal tree. Winning objectives on the other hand, is.

Reduction on cool downs you need to be warry about, and right now don't warrent talent points put into them. You're not using them on cool down. If your AoE taunt comes up 15 seconds before me, but there is no one around, then someone shows up 10 seconds later, do you feel that 2 talent points is worth the extra 5 seconds? I don't.

The only time that I wouldn't be using my AoE taunt on CD is when I'm defending a node in Alderaan which nobody is currently attacking. In that situation, your increased damage from Vengeance is just as useless.

Vengeance gives 4% DR on everything. Not to mention the constant 20% DR you get from charging/interceding around the map that Immortal do, which more than makes up for the 40% DR for 10 seconds on a 3min timer.

I'd disagree, in PvP damage patterns are never constant. You will have burst moments with 3/4 people trying to get you down. This is why Invincible shines.

 

Aside from all that, simply put, there is no better Huttball ball carrier than an Immortal Jugg with Unstoppable.

[Samurro]

Mediocre DPS lol. Your damage is fine and you're the best assist DPS class in the game because players only need to drop to 20% before you kill them every time with execute.

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=dz8595&s=5

 

That's a typical game that isn't just a complete stomp on either side. That's all single target damage.

 

And what you gonna do when your stuns are on cool down as Immortal? Sit there and hit them for 2.5k every 15 seconds?

 

Please. Immortal is an awful PvP spec. Don't kid yourself.

 

Rage is better. But rage is a gimmick 1 trick pony spec that's good at beating up on bad/under geared players. It was the best PvP spec before the all 50 bracket. Now it's 2nd compared to Vengeance.

 

Are you *********** nuts? You don't have to kill stuff in this game to achieve your goal...get lost please.

[Samurro]

 

I've played all specs. I tried immortal as DPS and stopped once I realized that all my tanking stats were largely useless in PvP.

 

[...]

 

Vengeance is the best. It offers the best assist DPS in the game while having great survivability. And you can still use all your Jugg utility.

 

Hahaha! Hilarious guy srsly! You are so stubborn and only talk about Vengenace is so good, it must be good because I use it, and I tested it myself so I AM RIGHT, NUBZ!

 

I wanna see your ****** Vengeance Jugg play while holding 2vs6 or attacking two people with a healer, you never gonna kill someone.

[Shendaar]

You're highly over selling an extra stun on a 1min timer. Is it good? Yes. But it doesn't go from making you this amazing disrupting person that's causing tons of chaos in-game. It's not spammable.

 

That's the only thing Immortal brings.

 

You seem to forget the non-channeled Force Choke and the shorter recharge on Force Push. Can you force push a tank out of guard range, stun a healer twice back to back while doing damage at the same time? Nope you can't. All you can do is do damage and if that doesn't work then you rely on me to make the big play that will suddenly make the enemy team collapse.

 

Vicious throw does 2500 damage. Someone with 17,500 hp will have 3,500 at 20%. Hardly finishing them off. As Vengeance though you will crit for 3500-3800.

 

How often do you see people with 17k+ hp? Most people that aren't in tank gear will have around 15-16k and unless you use Vicious Throw when their hp is at exactly 20%, then there is a good chance that they'll die.

 

An Operative right now has higher burst than me. You're right. They also have no survivability, no mobility, and can't make your teammates take less damage.

 

Which would you rather have?

 

Neither. I would take the DPS sorc. Even then, at least the operative has the utility to force kills when brute force isn't working.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Shendaar

[daays]

You seem to forget the non-channeled Force Choke and the shorter recharge on Force Push. Can you force push a tank out of guard range, stun a healer twice back to back while doing damage at the same time? Nope you can't. All you can do is do damage and if that doesn't work then you rely on me to make the big play that will suddenly make the enemy team collapse..

 

Uhh yes you can slow then force push a tank out of guard range as Veng.

You don't do damage as immortal. So that point is null.

I kill DPS/Healers all the time 1v2. It's not hard to slow, push, fear, stun.

 

I don't rely on a tank to do anything because they are useless in PvP. I'd much rather have a 2nd DPS than a tank anyday.

 

 

How often do you see people with 17k+ hp? Most people that aren't in tank gear will have around 15-16k and unless you use Vicious Throw when their hp is at exactly 20%, there is a good chance that they'll die..

 

All the time? Most sorcs have 17k. All Operatives have 17k. Tank classes have around 19-20k.

 

Your execute as any other spec doesn't instantly kill. It does as Veng.

 

 

Neither. I would take the DPS sorc. Even then, at least the operative has the utility to force kills when brute force isn't working.

 

I wouldn't. I'd take a full team of BH over sorcs. Then again that's a moot point. Until RBG's come out anyways.

[Shendaar]

Uhh yes you can slow then force push a tank out of guard range as Veng.

You don't do damage as immortal. So that point is null.

I kill DPS/Healers all the time 1v2. It's not hard to slow, push, fear, stun.

 

I don't rely on a tank to do anything because they are useless in PvP. I'd much rather have a 2nd DPS than a tank anyday.

 

Slow and then force push? You must be kidding, this is hardly the same as two stuns back to back. Immortal doesn't do damage? I've done 300k+ several times in long warzones, so you managing the same in DPS spec is hardly a big achievement.

[daays]

Slow and then force push? You must be kidding, this is hardly the same as two stuns back to back. Immortal doesn't do damage? I've done 300k+ several times in long warzones, so you managing the same in DPS spec is hardly a big achievement.

 

You're right, slowing then tossing someone off a cliff is 10x better than a 4 second stun.

 

SS of your damage?

[Samurro]

You're right, slowing then tossing someone off a cliff is 10x better than a 4 second stun.

 

Because Veng has so many more knockbacks compared to Immortal, nice argument. You are fella of the day, congratz!

[Shendaar]

You're right, slowing then tossing someone off a cliff is 10x better than a 4 second stun.

 

SS of your damage?

 

Yeah let's bring a random cliff into the argument. You know I can do the same except I can do it more often than you.

 

I can probably dig up a screenshot when I'm at home. In most full length games where the enemy team isn't a complete push over I can generally reach at least 200k damage depending on how much I focus on the objective. I don't claim to be a DPS machine, but Immortal in DPS gear (which is what this thread is about) is not as weak damage wise as you seem to think.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Shendaar

[daays]

Yeah let's bring a random cliff into the argument. You know I can do the same except I can do it more often than you.

 

I can probably dig up a screenshot when I'm at home. In most full length games where the enemy team isn't a complete push over I can generally reach at least 200k damage depending on how much I focus on the objective. I don't claim to be a DPS machine, but Immortal in DPS gear (which is what this thread is about) is not as weak damage wise as you seem to think.

 

PvP "DPS" Immortal Build.

 

Pretty sure this is talking about how to DPS as immortal while maintaing utility.

 

It's a good build if you tank in PvE and don't have the $$ to change specs (seriously need dual spec in this game).

 

But as far as outweighing Vengeance or Rage in PvP, Immortal offers less.

[Schwarzwald]

Said it once I'll say it again.

 

The point of this build isn't to kill people. The reason why 'dps' is in quotations is because you are wearing DPS gear instead of tanking gear with this build. You are meant to play a group support role that doesn't have completely terrible DPS.

 

To come in here and say 'Hey guiz, my X build does WAAAY more damage!" is not only off-topic, but it is probably wrong.

 

If you want the highest single target burst you can have in the game, then go for a shien/impale/obliterate build (3/25/13), then discuss it in its own 'killing things build thread'.

 

 

This is a thread for filling a role in a group as immortal. You use your stuns, you use your more frequent AoE taunt and you DPS much harder then a pure defensive tank. If you want to go play smashy damage or gimmicky non survivablity damage, go ahead, but you are not going to be helping your team much when you are dead or off in some corner chasing down kills.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Schwarzwald]

You seem to forget the non-channeled Force Choke and the shorter recharge on Force Push. Can you force push a tank out of guard range, stun a healer twice back to back while doing damage at the same time? Nope you can't. All you can do is do damage and if that doesn't work then you rely on me to make the big play that will suddenly make the enemy team collapse.

 

 

 

How often do you see people with 17k+ hp? Most people that aren't in tank gear will have around 15-16k and unless you use Vicious Throw when their hp is at exactly 20%, then there is a good chance that they'll die.

 

 

 

Neither. I would take the DPS sorc. Even then, at least the operative has the utility to force kills when brute force isn't working.

 

 

 

DING DING DING DING DING

 

We have a winner!

[Shendaar]

Pretty much what Schwarzwald said. daays seems to focus way too much on damage and fail to see how the utility that Immortal brings to the table can often help your team a lot more than a bit of extra damage. The primary function of the build discussed here is not to kill people, but it is definitely capable of putting out some numbers when required. It is also a very strong 1v1 build which can come in handy in maps like Civil War.

[dcjoker]

Don't forget that with immortal you will be in soresu 24/7. With vengeance you have to stance dance for guard - in other words as immortal you will get insane protection numbers and still be able to generate decent rage in soresu. As vengeance in soresu you will be rage starved.

[Shendaar]

SS of your damage?

 

Here is a screenshot of a game I just did. So yeah, once again, forgive me if I don't agree with your assessment of Immortal spec.

 

http://i.imgur.com/bOvO1.jpg

[daays]

Here is a screenshot of a game I just did. So yeah, once again, forgive me if I don't agree with your assessment of Immortal spec.

 

http://i.imgur.com/bOvO1.jpg

 

Where do you find these healers?

 

No one heals in any of the WZ's I play =(

[dcjoker]

Where do you find these healers?

 

No one heals in any of the WZ's I play =(

 

^ this

[Shendaar]

I was just pubbing and got lucky I guess. They actually had even more healing on the other team. Against so many healer your only hope is to shut them down, which is why I love the Immortal spec.

[Schwarzwald]

Here is a screenshot of a game I just did. So yeah, once again, forgive me if I don't agree with your assessment of Immortal spec.

 

http://i.imgur.com/bOvO1.jpg

 

Is this a typical result? I've only ever broken 300k a few times as Immortal, and it was on voidstar due to the zergy nature of spawns and endless killing when you have a healer.

 

When I am 'on' I will usually do 200-250k DMG and 40-6k prot. On my lower end games (like if I'm focused too hard on objectives and not earning medals) I will only get up to about 150k dmg.

[Shendaar]

Void Star is where I will generally reach 300k+ damage. All I need is a bit of healing and an enemy team that doesn't completely fold over in 2 seconds. In Huttball, I almost always spend most of my time running the ball so my damage tends to be fairly low. In Civil War, there is a lot of waiting around and depending on how good the enemy team is you may not see much action.

 

200-250k damage would be closer to what I do on average when I'm having a good game. If I spend some time DPSing I'll often find myself among the top damage of the wz, which I find surprising. I think a lot of people just have no idea what they are doing. I mean when I see an operative finish a game with like 75k damage, I can't help but wonder what the hell he was doing all game.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Shendaar