ageNtreachery Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 They are afraid that it will bocome a leetest game and they will fail at it like they failed at WoW. Why else would any1 not want a DMG meter... I was in a hardcore guild in wow till I quit in 2011. I was one of the ones who ****ed the game so you can trust me as I know what I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Trust me, they do notice when the bug fixes or features they are missing go unchanged and ignored while endless content they will never see gets added. IE. Roleplayers asked to be able to sit in chairs, the first major patch includes pvp changes and a new instance. No mention of when they will add a normal sitting animation. To the players that matters to, sitting in chairs DOES add to the 'overall betterment of the game.' The ability to sit down might not matter to you, but a level 50 instance to someone who will not reach level 50 for several more months is about the same level of absurd uselessness. a very good example wish i had made it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) They are afraid that it will bocome a leetest game and they will fail at it like they failed at WoW. Why else would any1 not want a DMG meter... see a perfect example of what we have been saying is this attitude. "If you do not want a DPS meter you are a failure." Edited January 20, 2012 by Baaddare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It all boils down to an inferiority complex, since hardcores have zero way to grief casuals in-game. It's all psychological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souloferdrick Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The hardcore vs casual debate is as old as the MMO hills and at this point, a massive running joke that hardly any one is cognizant of. These terms are highly subjective and limit the extremely wide scope of play styles to be reduced down to two simple, easy to comprehend factions so that people can choose what side of the dialectic they think they fall on and play themselves off people drinking a different color koolaid than they are. If these terms were used literally, hardcores would be too engrossed to give a crap about what any one else is doing and the casuals wouldn't care enough about much of anything to cause a stink. So what you really have is a bunch of people that fall in between the two extremes arguing for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrobes Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Appreciating a racing car:- Casual: The feel of the seats when you sit in them. The smell inside the car. The layout of the instruments. The interior colour range. How the engine sounds when you start it. Hardcore: How well the car behaves going around corner #3 at 110 mph. I don't really have a point. People look at the same things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Appreciating a racing car:- Casual: The feel of the seats when you sit in them. The smell inside the car. The layout of the instruments. The interior colour range. How the engine sounds when you start it. Hardcore: How well the car behaves going around corner #3 at 110 mph. I don't really have a point. People look at the same things differently. Remove "racing" from your analogy and you've got it right. People who would want a racing car would be "hardcore drivers" anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 There are no hardcore players in this game. Hardcore means full PvP, full loot and permadeath. Anyone claiming to be hardcore without playing a game like that is just a poser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmerkin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hardcore players are often aggressive with their demands, and want improvements to the things that the majority of the players have not even come close to experiencing yet and think that they should get them whilst others feedback is often ignored by them. Hardcore are very much the minority in this game thankfully but they do have the loudest voices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexbeav Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You like content being faceroll, that's good for you. I do not, I have fun by setting the bar high, failing a few times then finally getting over the bar and repeating that process until my eyes bleed and body shuts down. The better the challenge the funner. Thus the "Hardcore" Vs "Casual" debate and war continues. I feel like you only read my first paragraph and stopped there. I am thus reminding you that while normal is faceroll, hard and nightmare are not. There *is* challenging content out there for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexbeav Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 mods addons DPS meters Xserver LFD shall i go on with the list of stuff the "hardcore" people have asked for that effects all. The few things you mention correctly are loaded examples. And these are all things that you can choose not to use. If you are so fearful of being shunned by your community for i.e. not having a 2nd spec, having 'bad' gear etc. then I'd recommend you find yourself another guild who will welcome you for what you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Remove "racing" from your analogy and you've got it right. People who would want a racing car would be "hardcore drivers" anyway Oh, that explains all those overweight middle aged men in high performance cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hardcore players are often aggressive with their demands, and want improvements to the things that the majority of the players have not even come close to experiencing yet and think that they should get them whilst others feedback is often ignored by them. Hardcore are very much the minority in this game thankfully but they do have the loudest voices. Based on what evidence lol, the game has been out for a month. why are so many people talking like this game has been out for years ROFl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincethejedi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Curious thing is, the hardcore-segment of the playerbase is generally far, far, far more coherent, reasonable and sensible in their line of argumentation, as well as in their demands, than the casuals. /agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimudthesecond Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Ok lets get it straight, just because you played WoW does not make you hardcore its not even a hardcore game its a kiddies game with everything done for you with add ons ect. Why do I personally have a problem, ok,ok I'll tell you about my experience last night. Me and 3 guys tryed putting a party together for The Foundry flashpoint. Ok easy enough no? Just needed a healer, so 30 mins later and no healer we thought pfft blow it we'll ask some lvl 50s to help. Not a single one of them had done Boarding Party, they wizzed through the content just to get lvl 50...i mean whats the point? really? You guys that are just moaning and moaning about this and that, YOU BLATANTLY DIDN'T PLAY KOTOR this game is pretty much KOTOR 3-8 in one. These forums just show whats wrong with the people playing at the moment,well all the people not playing and moaning on the forums, and yes I know getting lvl 50 is fast,esp when u SPACEBAR SPACEBAR everything, I haven't and I'm lvl 45 and I've put a hell of alot of hours in. So whats our problem with "hardcore players" ? 1. Their not hardcore they just moan about what they don't have, if you we're hardcore you'd be able to do all content with your eyes shut, not asking for stuff to help you gauge how good you are (And others), you would already know. 2. Your wizzing by the content I mean who grabs a book and then reads the last chapter? :s It's all about the experience IMO. And last but not least 3. You all just want this game to be WoW 2.0 but its not it never will be and never has been. But people say Oh the combats the same, its very similar to DA2 aswell should we say they copied that or NWN2 or EQ2, lineage 2 whats your guys problem, I dont know... Play with what you've got or bye. [edit] I'm sure they'll let you have addo-ons sooner or later guys it will happen! All I'm saying is chill!! rly and play the content Edited January 20, 2012 by Jimudthesecond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckjam Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 GIBBERISH RAGE ABOUT WOW AND CALLING PEOPLE KIDDIES What's your problem? Most of the stuff you've ranted about doesn't have anything to do with Hardcore players. You're crying about WoW and people speeding up to level 50 and not talking about the end game at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimudthesecond Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) What's your problem? Most of the stuff you've ranted about doesn't have anything to do with Hardcore players. You're crying about WoW and people speeding up to level 50 and not talking about the end game at all. I'm saying that most of these people who claim to be "hardcore" aren't . as i said if you we're hardcore you wouldn't play with add-ons, you'd know because you would clearly be hardcore :s I'm not crying I am nagging abit yes. But I'm not the only one belive me out of say 100 people I have as friends about 95 I'd say have the same feelings...(these people don't use the forums because they wsee this sort of stuff and just sigh) To crush end content you should just join a group with guys you know are good players, people you've heard of in game, friends you've made, ect. End game is all good but thats just what it is, end game. Most people aren't laying 1-49 their just rushing it and then when they get 50 and don't have a clue on how to play their char their wanting add-ons ect. Trial and error my friend trial and error. BTW i agree with most points by the OP ability delay FPS issues ect, we do need a better game, I'm no way calling it a polished game and yes we need hardcore players,(they have more free time to demand things for the game) but I just want them to do content rly. Edited January 20, 2012 by Jimudthesecond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (the animations problem is one thing that I actually really care about. My control/utility abilities don't go off until like, forever. I can really feel it in PVP.) So me owning you in PvP is only because you are hardcore and can't coop with that problem? But you are right, the abilities delay needs to be tuned so that it works correct, which is within the casttime + gcd (if it applies) that is stated for the concerned ability. Atm. it's synch with individual delays on the animations. Most of us adapted to it, but it is still annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navakai Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 There is also the feeling that the "Casual" majority are paying for all the things the "Hardcore" minority gets and that the "Casual" majority will never get to see or experience. This inspires resentment and other negatives. ... "Our" $15 is the same as "their" $15, but "they" get more benefit out of their $15 than "we" do. This strikes most people as being "unfair". You're forgetting a very important thing though, choice. What defines a hardcore player? No ones forcing anyone to be 'casual' or 'hardcore' It's all choice. More tools, more customization, better balance ect. These are all positive things, whether or not a more casual player will utilize all these 'new' things, shouldn't define whether or not we get them. How is that fair also? One might argue that the hardcore actually PLAY the game, The casuals just skim it. Why cater the content to them? Just because person a.) has no use for a damage meter, doesn't mean one shouldn't be implemented. Can't we have choices? At least if it's in the game, you have the CHOICE whether or not to view / or get into it. It's like showing up at a new years eve party and shouting 'I don't drink" then demanding ALL the alcohol to be removed from the premises". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowerslayer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 betterment *cringe* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Crueak Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Because it seems to me the only thing you dislike about hardcore players asking for better stuff is the fact that they're asking for better stuff? And how it "doesn't really matter!" I mean, it's not as if casual players will really notice the majority of the changes that hardcore players are looking for. It's also not unreasonable to say that the changes that they want are for the overall betterment of the game - "Ilum is really messed up!" "Slicing is way too easy money!" "These animations are not responsive!" "Crafting needs to be better!" "Your class mirroring is not really mirroring!" How, I might ask, would these harm the casual player? If these seem like loaded examples, I'd like to see someone present a case in which a request that's common with hardcore players harms the casual base? (the animations problem is one thing that I actually really care about. My control/utility abilities don't go off until like, forever. I can really feel it in PVP.) in all honesty it is not about what you the hard core players want but what the whole community wants whether their hardcore, casual or what have you. No single style of player is entitled to anything only the community as a whole is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pergamon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Its just a game. Get over it. "Hardcore" gamer? "Casual" gamer? The only real difference is that some people have more time than others to play. Casual gamers make up the largest percentage of the players. They don't want content that requires them to play more than they can reasonably dedicate. They just want to play when they can and enjoy the game. Honestly, these are the gamers that the games are designed for. Often the voices of the casual players are not represented on forums because they are too busy enjoying and playing the game. Hardcore gamers make up a very small percentage of the players. They want the game, and the developers dedicated to them because they pretty much dedicate their lives to the game. They, at times, resent the casual player for achieving goals in the game, even though it took the casual player much longer to do so. They feel entitled to special content or titles as a reward for playing so many hours and their dedication to the game they play. They are more vocal on the forums, sadly. In the end.... Its just a game. Any developer that listens to the smaller percentage over the larger percentage of the game is doomed. Period. So it's this simple: Bioware, please keep this game designed with the casual gamer in mind and you will succeed. If the "Hardcore" players can't deal with that, then they can find another game to dedicate their lives to, or adjust accordingly. The game is too easy? The game is too hard? Its all relative, but the common thread is that it is fun. If it isnt fun to you, then don't make it your "job" to play: quit. Find something else to do (besides complain on the forums). Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 True, but guilds that made money in other MMO's have switched to SWTOR as a group. Also, I'm pretty sure that if the running shoes fell apart just before the finish line so the profesional runner was unable to finish the race, they would be telling Nike to fix their *********** shoes. But standards are higher for things like shoes than they are games. You wouldn't buy a pair of shoes with no soles for full price under the promise that the soles would get mailed to you at some undisclosed point in the future when they had fixed a problem they were having with them. And there it is! The supposition that this game is in some way a faulty product or not fit for purpose... Well I am here today to tell you that I have found this product to be more than fit for purpose. Also, as there is no prize money based league for this game, the only other way I am aware of that money could be made from this game is through instruction videos on YouTube, etc. If guilds came here to make money, then I wish they would leave and go back to wherever they came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navakai Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 "Hardcore" gamer? "Casual" gamer? The only real difference is that some people have more time than others to play. Across the board, most figures show 'casual' gamers (gamer's who don't go too deep into pvp or raiding by definition) spend as much, if not more time within the game, than actual raiders do. Many raiders only log on to raid, then log off, and don't put time into alts. Casual gamers make up the largest percentage of the players. They don't want content that requires them to play more than they can reasonably dedicate. People aren't asking for more or bigger raids. They are asking for tools to assist in high end gaming. Damage meters, customizable UI's, tracking of buffs / debuffs. All things that have become somewhat 'standard' in most MMO's. They just want to play when they can and enjoy the game. Honestly, these are the gamers that the games are designed for. The game follows a progression. 1 - 50, then end game pvp, and end game Operations / Heroic Dungeons, with scalable difficulties. I don't think the game is 'designed' with any one thing in mind, least of all a casual audience. Why else would 'end game' exist? Hardcore gamers make up a very small percentage of the players. They want the game, and the developers dedicated to them because they pretty much dedicate their lives to the game. I raided within World of Warcraft in a very successful 'hardcore' raiding guild. I spent a few hours a night clearing content, 3 days a week. "Hardcore' is a frame of mind, not always a time commitment. They, at times, resent the casual player for achieving goals in the game, even though it took the casual player much longer to do so. They feel entitled to special content or titles as a reward for playing so many hours and their dedication to the game they play. They are more vocal on the forums, sadly. This is a myth. Many 'Hardcore' Players don't even see themselves as "hardcore' They just want to experience everything the game has to offer on a competitive level. Why be good when you can be great. Fact is, most 'hardcore' gamers, don't really care about casual gamers, or give them much thought. Usually the reverse is true. In the end.... Its just a game. Any developer that listens to the smaller percentage over the larger percentage of the game is doomed. Period. Agreed, and really well put. So it's this simple: Bioware, please keep this game designed with the casual gamer in mind and you will succeed. If the "Hardcore" players can't deal with that, then they can find another game to dedicate their lives to, or adjust accordingly. This doesn't mesh well with what you said above. At all. Just some thoughts from a "hardcore' gamer. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pergamon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Across the board, most figures show 'casual' gamers (gamer's who don't go too deep into pvp or raiding by definition) spend as much, if not more time within the game, than actual raiders do. Many raiders only log on to raid, then log off, and don't put time into alts. "Hardcore' is a frame of mind, not always a time commitment. People aren't asking for more or bigger raids. They are asking for tools to assist in high end gaming. Damage meters, customizable UI's, tracking of buffs / debuffs. All things that have become somewhat 'standard' in most MMO's. "High end gaming" Why can't they just use the same tools that we all are given. That keeps the playing field level for all. Damage Meters? If you, or anyone in your party is still alive and the boss is dead: Good enough. Need it because you want to "optimize" your damage? Come up with your own rotation, others will come up with their own....then debate which is better. That is way better than saying- "That rotation is .5678% lower than mine, therefore I wont use it". Use the Force Luke-----Trust your feelings!!! The game follows a progression. 1 - 50, then end game pvp, and end game Operations / Heroic Dungeons, with scalable difficulties. I don't think the game is 'designed' with any one thing in mind, least of all a casual audience. Why else would 'end game' exist? End Game certainly does not exist to see how fast you can get there and whine because there is nothing else to do....right? I raided within World of Warcraft in a very successful 'hardcore' raiding guild. I spent a few hours a night clearing content, 3 days a week. "Hardcore' is a frame of mind, not always a time commitment. Did you like the last expansion? They catered that to "Hardcore" players.....worked out great I hear... This is a myth. Many 'Hardcore' Players don't even see themselves as "hardcore' They just want to experience everything the game has to offer on a competitive level. Why be good when you can be great. Fact is, most 'hardcore' gamers, don't really care about casual gamers, or give them much thought. Usually the reverse is true. They obviously care enough about them to start threads asking "What's your guys' problem with "hardcore" players anyways?" Or to read and respond to pages upon pages of posts about it. Agreed, and really well put. Thanks. This doesn't mesh well with what you said above. At all. It means that if this game was designed with the hardcore gamer in mind...I would be telling the casual gamer to stop whining and leave if they didnt like it. But as it stands now, the game is designed for the casual gamer in mind....so if the hardcore players dont like it.....leave. Just some thoughts from a "hardcore' gamer. Just some thoughts from a "casual" gamer. Cheers. Next pint is on me. (sorry, but I dont use the forums enough to know how to do the quotes in nice boxes like you did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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