Assassin Tanking Threat

[Toczilla]

Has anyone else struggled with threat vs. great DPS players? Unless there is Guard on my top dps'er he can literally pull a mob right off and sometimes even a boss. If I don't get lucky w/ shock crits early on, it seems like kind of a toss up. Wither seems like its +threat mod is broken. Thrash seems like it should do more threat than it does. I don't know, maybe I am the only one seeing this.

 

I've beaten all hardmode flashpoints, and 6/6 normal raid content so far(minus the new 1.1 stuff). I have been gaming since EQ back in 2001, and have played a Tank in multiple different roles/games. I don't think I have ever seen so much challenge in threat holding since tab-target sunder armor days in classic WoW.

 

I am hoping I am just doing it wrong, and there could be some extra light shed here. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks

[RoguexA]

I do agree that the threat modifiers do seem a -little- off. I haven't done the raids, but I've done a majority of the Hard-mode FP's.

 

Albeit, I do enjoy the challenge to gain as much threat as possible - I prefer it to (Not trying to be offensive) easy-mode WoW. It's fun, keeps me on my toes, and requires me to be paying attention.

[matthewcreech]

Are you taunting regularly?

 

As an aside, tanking was designed such that holding threat was more of a challenge. Supposedly this prevents it from becoming a simple matter of standing there and having a good healer.

YMMV.

 

Have you tried trolling bosses? This generates excellent aggro.

[Maestrodomus]

I have found that I have to be the first person to hit the tougher mobs and bosses or there will be a problem.

 

Usually a shock, wither, discharge, shock will lock him up and allow me to hold off until the next wither or I'll have to throw in a taunt by then.

 

With taunts plus shock/wither on a single target? I don't think any string of crits will pull it off you.

[Toczilla]

I taunt whenever I see someone else pull threat off me, also I pop Force Pull when I can. I think the main issue is that we only get a 50% threat mod on Dark Charge, and our dps output is nowhere near that of an actual geared DPS'er.

[Maestrodomus]

If you're using taunts regularly and can't hold well on a single target I think there's a problem. They shouldn't be able to rip it off you; and I wear full endurance gear.

 

Shock and Wither are feated for +hate in Darkness beyond the +50% you get from Dark Charge. It should be enough.

[Stranded_Law]

Has anyone else struggled with threat vs. great DPS players? Unless there is Guard on my top dps'er he can literally pull a mob right off and sometimes even a boss. If I don't get lucky w/ shock crits early on, it seems like kind of a toss up. Wither seems like its +threat mod is broken. Thrash seems like it should do more threat than it does. I don't know, maybe I am the only one seeing this.

 

I've beaten all hardmode flashpoints, and 6/6 normal raid content so far(minus the new 1.1 stuff). I have been gaming since EQ back in 2001, and have played a Tank in multiple different roles/games. I don't think I have ever seen so much challenge in threat holding since tab-target sunder armor days in classic WoW.

 

I am hoping I am just doing it wrong, and there could be some extra light shed here. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

 

Having been a gamer since EQ doesn't make you good. It just makes you a gamer.

 

"Unless there is Guard on my top DPSer he can literally pull a mob right off and sometimes a boss."

 

That sentence alone tells me that my statement is correct. You obviously didn't play EQ and WoW "hardcore" as a tank to think it's astonishing that a DPS class can pull aggro off the tank.

 

And why don't you have your "best DPSer" Guarded? Seriously. No, I have not ever had trouble with aggro unless I'm grouped with someone else who has Khem Val taunting constantly. And just like every other MMO...on a boss, tell your DPS to wait a *********** second to establish aggro before they burst in. This is not even remotely new to MMO's. You said hopefully you're doing something wrong - you're playing tank when perhaps you are not designed for tanking.

[jkcheng]

Not a tank myself though I have been known to pull aggro off one from time to time. From reading the post from others it seems you're not using taunt regularly when others are is the problem here. Looks to me like you're not burning the Taunts until aggro is pulled off while other tanks are using it to maintain aggro.

 

Also, as the previous poster mentioned, tell your raid to give you a few seconds to establish aggro b4 jumping in with all their cooldowns.

[jkcheng]

Having been a gamer since EQ doesn't make you good. It just makes you a gamer.

 

"Unless there is Guard on my top DPSer he can literally pull a mob right off and sometimes a boss."

 

That sentence alone tells me that my statement is correct. You obviously didn't play EQ and WoW "hardcore" as a tank to think it's astonishing that a DPS class can pull aggro off the tank.

 

And why don't you have your "best DPSer" Guarded? Seriously. No, I have not ever had trouble with aggro unless I'm grouped with someone else who has Khem Val taunting constantly. And just like every other MMO...on a boss, tell your DPS to wait a *********** second to establish aggro before they burst in. This is not even remotely new to MMO's. You said hopefully you're doing something wrong - you're playing tank when perhaps you are not designed for tanking.

 

He never said he was good, he simply listed those stuff as in he's not new to MMO and had extensive experience tanking. Guy was being humble enough to not need this kind of response.

[Toczilla]

There is no reason to taunt when you are top threat, unless it magically adds +threat (from all other MMO's it just moves you to the top of the hate list). When raiding in previous MMO's I played either Healers or DPS, and as the above post said I was trying to be humble.

 

I was in Triton in EQ had multiple world first kills, and as far as hardcore goes..I used to play MMO's 16-20 hours a day before I had to be an adult. Obviously I do Guard my top DPS, but if I am testing things...then I try and check multiple variables. I am mainly talking flashpoints, I haven't had trouble in Ops.

[Toczilla]

And the main point of this topic was to get feedback on Assassin Threat, and if anyone else sees it as being on the low side.

[Saberolson]

And the main point of this topic was to get feedback on Assassin Threat, and if anyone else sees it as being on the low side.

 

I dont think its just us. I know our mercs can rip hate away from our marauder at will. he does it sometimes just to piss him off.

 

I had a deception assassin pulling it off me every now and then last night if he didnt wait a second to let me get a good lead in threat.

 

Also, some bosses just dump hate or jump to random targets, as im sure you know about, but its hard to tell they are doing that. For example, the first time I ran the foundry, and the last boss(dont want to spoil it for those that havent been there)randomly did his master strike combo, i thought i was screwing up and would taunt franticly. By the end I realized it was just what he did.

 

And no, you do not taunt every time its up, it has no effect on a mob already targetting you. Taunt is to get hate back, just like all the other MMOs. So you are right there.

 

But I dont think its a problem, as long as Im quick to taunt, I havent had anyone get one shot yet thankfully.

[Ashane]

Dont really have any problems with Threat personally.

 

Done the HM FP's and HM Ops, havent dipped into NM yet tho.

 

The only time I tend to lose agro is when facing the pack of dogs right before Gharj. I tend to lose one, maybe two due to our BH's Death from Above. That's even with the new and improved wither. Single AoE taunt fixes it for the duration however.

 

Other then that, I havent lost agro to full set Snipers, BH's, or Sorcs. If your having problems on Bosses, remember that just because you cant force pull a boss, it's still useful for the agro generation. You should also be getting your guaranteed crit on Shock every chance you can get, as it has such a huge threat potential.

[Stigas]

I am having similar issues on both my Darkness Assassin and Juggernaut Warrior. It's not just you.

 

Flashpoints aren't much of a problem, though.

[HarassMe]

if the threat tables here are even remotely similar to wow, you don't want to use taunt as a threat gaining ability.

 

taunt is for you to gain aggro on a mob that you lost to a dps. 6 seconds to build enough threat that they will focus you once the taunt duration has expired.

[Stigas]

You don't gain threat when you taunt. You simply force it to attack you for 6 seconds. Taunt and threat in general in this game sucks.

 

Want to make tanking interesting?

 

Make interesting mechanics.

 

Threat is NOT interesting at all. It's glorified DPS'ing, while also having the task of directing your DPS by positioning the boss, etc.

 

It should be a 100% - 200% modifier. This would give them enough room to make some interesting encounter mechanics specifically for tanks to work through.

[kainsec]

I have no issue in threat management vast majority of time. The odd irritating pull where all the mobs are spread apart to prevent wither+discharge pull but even then all I have to do is run through the ranks hit them once to aggro them and ball them up and wither+discharge then maintain aggro which is very easy.

[Kinada]

There is no reason to taunt when you are top threat, unless it magically adds +threat (from all other MMO's it just moves you to the top of the hate list). When raiding in previous MMO's I played either Healers or DPS, and as the above post said I was trying to be humble.

 

I was in Triton in EQ had multiple world first kills, and as far as hardcore goes..I used to play MMO's 16-20 hours a day before I had to be an adult. Obviously I do Guard my top DPS, but if I am testing things...then I try and check multiple variables. I am mainly talking flashpoints, I haven't had trouble in Ops.

 

I call BS on that, the euros usually beat us to it. Most of the time we came in 4th or so.

 

<-- Philiak

 

Unless this was after I quit.

 

Small world.

[matthewcreech]

You don't gain threat when you taunt. You simply force it to attack you for 6 seconds. Taunt and threat in general in this game sucks.

You might check out this discussion which posits a different position:

As evidenced in

.

 

Vette's DPS stops at roughly 50% or 5,000 dmg. With the current theory that means that she would have to get the mobs health down to 3500. Now, without a combat log we can only guestimate as to the exact point in which aggro swaps. But we can see through the video from frame by frame that the aggro actually swaps somewhere between 2,554 and 1935. Putting the aggro factor more in the neighborhood 1.5 not 1.3. Which possibly suggests that Taunt has an inherent threat value itself OR the bonus from tanking stance (in this case Soresu) modifies the sum which Taunt produces.

There are still so many unknowns and elements in flux that we can't say for certain one way or another.

[Dhariq]

I do not see how you can ever keep up with a dps in the long run as it is based on doing damage and they seem to scale faster then tanks can keep up with.

But I suppose it is just to continue increasing the time before you allow the dps to start hitting a boss. Right now in 126-136 gear with equally geared dps; if I just get two attacks free before they smack it I'm home free for the fight.

Regarding multiple mobs I simply stand no chance what-so-ever apart from the 45 sec cd aoe taunt but thats not a critical issue unless the dps players are all over the place trying to steal aggro and solo far away strong and elites. But I do not think they need to make the tank able to compensate for this behaviour for the game to work.

[Stigas]

You might check out this discussion which posits a different position:

 

There are still so many unknowns and elements in flux that we can't say for certain one way or another.

 

Interesting. I appreciate the link. Thanks!

[Toczilla]

Philiak! <-- Kanibal

 

I was mainly talking North Snake in tacvi, that was world 1st, and I think maybe Barqs in expack before Omens of War..unless these were only US firsts but I am pretty sure they weren't.

[Hypernetic]

Threat management is as much the job of DPS as it is the tank. Most DPS classes have a way to drop threat. They also should give you some time to build threat before popping cooldowns and going nuts.

[Kinada]

Philiak! <-- Kanibal

 

I was mainly talking North Snake in tacvi, that was world 1st, and I think maybe Barqs in expack before Omens of War..unless these were only US firsts but I am pretty sure they weren't.

 

Hey man, yeah North Snake was a big deal everyone thought it was impossible.

 

It was really always the same 5 guilds in the top 5 though just moving around a bit each kill. Good times.

[liongate]

Threat management is as much the job of DPS as it is the tank. Most DPS classes have a way to drop threat. They also should give you some time to build threat before popping cooldowns and going nuts.

 

^This. One problem I've consistently run into with groups that have gone bad is that the dps thinks they can just pop everything and are pissed off at the tank when things go wrong. The only thing I liked about FFXI is everyone had to watch their threat.