Dual Spec - It's a must! (NOT ACs)

[Tolil]

We can play this silly train if you want: But then those who want to play Healers or Tanks are having a hard time finding groups beause all these DPSers are taking up the roles....

 

And w're back to judging how people should be playing their own toons again... So what if all the DPSers suddenly decide they want to have a shot at healing? Who are you to say they can't?

If that affects the people who "normally" like to tank and suddenly they find that everyone is having trouble finding a DPSer to fill the group, well they'll have the option to spec a different role or wait.

 

You're just trying to create a circular argument because at the end of the day there is no reason whatsoever to not allow people to have 2 specs of the same AC.

[JColquhoun]

As are you....

 

 

 

I love it how folks, who generally can't substantiate their point, get mad and call those who disagree "trolls".

 

PS: Strawman building is a silly venture. Who's arguing doing FPs/OPs solo?*

 

 

*Obviously you can do low level ones on your own.

 

My main is a level 50 Op Healer on Dark Reaper: Origin. I do quite well in this role, having healed, tanked and DPS'd in a variety of games since EQ. I know that longevity in a game requires choice. You play your character the way you want, you let me play my character the way I want. I chose to play an Operative because it gave me the option of choosing between healing or DPSing, depending where I was needed or what I needed to do. I'm also leveling a Powertech so that I can fill the role of Tank/DPS. Charging me a ridiculous amount of credits to change back and forth between my specs is not going to wring more money out of me for Bioware. It's not going to make me roll an alt. If anything it's going to cause me to become bored with being pigeonholed and quitting altogether.

 

And that wasn't a strawman. I was stating that you cannot do a FP/OP on your own. That tank or healer who is comprising part of your group, allowing you to complete the FP/OP may prefer DPSing in PvP or PvE dailies. Just because you don't mind brainless farming of credits for Spec changes, or rolling PvP/PvE in the same spec as you do FP/OPs doesn't mean he feels the same way. Have some respect for other people and don't try to force them to play the way you like to play.

[genmyke]

I've always wondered why, if these other games have all the features you want, you aren't playing those other games?

 

*You in the generic sense*

 

if you read what i said you will know why im not playing a game like Rift because it is a true WoW clone the classes on the game play almost 100% as it does in WoW.

 

Im not playing WoW anymore because Cata sucked Dragon soul is a horrible raid place made a raid like Totc seem great.

 

i like swtor raids minus the bugs in HM.

 

features alone dont make people play the game it is the game it self you know CoD mw2 has the most game modes in any game to date should it mean i have to play it because it has more feature than CS? no because it is not a better game than CS when it comes to competitive gameplay.

Edited February 5, 2012 by genmyke

[Surakis]

And w're back to judging how people should be playing their own toons again... So what if all the DPSers suddenly decide they want to have a shot at healing? Who are you to say they can't?

 

Where do you move the goal post? It moved so fast I've lost track of it!

 

Point where I've ever said folks shouldn't be able to roll additional characters of a different class or spec.

 

If that affects the people who "normally" like to tank and suddenly they find that everyone is having trouble finding a DPSer to fill the group, well they'll have the option to spec a different role or wait.

 

You're just trying to create a circular argument because at the end of the day there is no reason whatsoever to not allow people to have 2 specs of the same AC.

 

I don't think you know what a circular argument is becuase you are in one and cannot see it.

[Emeda]

O for the days when you could repec to anything you wanted to. The only thing was that you had to re-earn the xp to do so.

 

You want to be a healer you could even if you were a dps, the only thing you had to do was level up as a healer. You get tired of healing you could change again but had to level up again.

 

Nope thats cruel and would make people have to play the game, and we all know having people play the game they want to play is bad right.

[DaxRendar]

So you are for "hurt" just on a limited basis? Or is it not "hurt" at all?

 

PS: If you are going to equate the in-game respecs to dual-spec then we can stop with these silly threads. You have what you want in game.

 

No, I'm for convenience and "quality of life" - this is a game (you know, a recreational pastime) - and I'd rather not spend all my time playing farming Credits to occasionally get to enjoy playing my preferred spec in PvP and my preferred spec in PvE on my Scoundrel.

 

There are plenty of people who simply don't have the time (let alone the desire) to level Alts for different playstyles or roles. Dual Spec lets them pay a one-time fee up front and enjoy multiple aspects of their characters. In a casual GAME that's a good thing.

 

• It benefits people who like to Raid but don't have the time or money for constant Respecs
  
• It benefits people who like to participate in PvP and PvE Content on a Single Character/AC
  
• It benefits smaller Guilds as they are more-easily able to group up for Flashpoints and Operations
  
• It benefits large Guilds as fewer people have to sit out due to Tank/Healer shortages
  
• It benefits people who want one of each AC on their preferred Server but enjoy playing different roles on those ACs
  

 

As far as I can tell, the only thing it hurts are the sensibilities of people who think playing a Casual, Story-Based MMO should somehow require "hard work" where you have to "earn" the "right" to play 2 roles on a single character

[Guzul]

It hasn't been about levels. This is a fall-back you have taken because your gear argument was so weak.

 

Dual-spec won't help your buddy's main if he is under-leveled either.

 

Ok, I know I said I will ignore you but, reread my post where I talk about the alt thing. I said maybe he isn't ready yet. I said I included the fact that he maybe doesn't have the gear. It doesnt exclude the fact maybe he is lvl 25. Go check my post you will see I don't just talk about gear. GO see it before you quote me again. What are you waiting for, go see it.

 

Now if you do nightmare mod I think your main character is gear enough for his offspec. But that's the worst argument I have. try to counter the ratio one.

 

Stop ignoring that simple fact that in an flaspoint the ratio is 1:1:2 and in operative it's 1:2:5 for most of the fight except some time it can be 1:1:6 or 2:2:4 in 8. Now in 16, 1:4:11 or 2:4:10 or 1:3:12. Think about the enrage timer too. 2 tanks in a fight you only need one might be not possible to do. Even more in nightmare mod. So some players will have to pay 100k credits 2 or 3 times a raid and some won't have to. Some will need to swtich to their alt even if they want to play there main and some won'thave to. Yeah it's pretty fair.

 

 

If you just focus again on the alt isn't gear enough than you are just a troll.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Guzul

[genmyke]

Duel spec is just wrong for the game get over it. Its only because you want to be able to do everything easily.

 

Having the ability to be exceptional at 2 areas of the game is also wrong. Hey ok this mob is light on healing and heavy on dps check so lets all switch to DPS and for some reason you are all great DPS's and kill it then the next fight 1 min later you switch to healer and then you are an outstanding healer ever though you did nothing but click a button to do so.

 

Deal with what you have and work with it, every class still has the basic abilities to preform other functions. If you are a healer spec you still have alot of DPS abilities and if you are a dps and have a healing spec available in your AC you have basic healing abilities.

 

Please someone give me a good reason why someone who DPS's 99% of the time should have the ability to be just as good a healer as someone who heals 99% of the time or be just a good a tank as someone who tanks 99% of the time.

 

Its all because you want, you want, you want and all you care about is what you want.

 

Just imagine that they allow respecs between classes, then we will have the babies crying for tri-specs because they can be all 3 specs. Hey Im a tank and a DPS now but we are always short healers so I should be able to heal also so because of that I need 3 specs. Then here comes the quad specs because you have to have your PVP spec also. Then comes the cinco-spec because you have to have your PVP dps spec your PVP heal spec your pve tank spec and your pve dps spec and your pve heal spec.

 

 

 

so time = easy

 

in your logic

 

these dual spec arguments are so weak.

 

if a boss fight is hard i dont see how dual spec can possible make it EASY.

[ferroz]

To your first point. Have those same 8 people create another character with a different spec. Then each person can have two specs to choose between when it comes time to raid. But you simply don't want to have to make that effort.

But... we want to raid on our mains. We don't want to raid on alts. Why is that an unreasonable expectation?

 

Requiring people to have an alt in order to raid is not a valid solution to the problem; that's TERRIBLE game design.

 

Perhaps you did not say need, but many others in this very thread have.

Since it was a response to me, and I'm not arguing it, that's irrelevant.

 

Look at the title of it. It's not a must, it's a want. The game will get along fine if dual-spec is not added.

Actually, this is still a strawman argument. THe claim is that it's a must for the game, not for the players.

 

Or are you claiming that people are actually arguing that the game wants dual spec?

Edited February 5, 2012 by ferroz
punctuation

[Tolil]

Where do you move the goal post? It moved so fast I've lost track of it!

 

Point where I've ever said folks shouldn't be able to roll additional characters of a different class or spec.

 

 

 

I don't think you know what a circular argument is becuase you are in one and cannot see it.

 

Hey if you want to have a toon for every role, more power to you. We're asking for an alternative. It wont have any affect on you - you can quite happily ignore any duel spec system and roll alts to your hearts content.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Tolil

[genmyke]

O for the days when you could repec to anything you wanted to. The only thing was that you had to re-earn the xp to do so.

 

You want to be a healer you could even if you were a dps, the only thing you had to do was level up as a healer. You get tired of healing you could change again but had to level up again.

 

Nope thats cruel and would make people have to play the game, and we all know having people play the game they want to play is bad right.

 

that would make people leave the game show me a game that manage to break a million active subs with that way of thinking and trust me a million isnt anything today.

 

oh right did you come from runes of magic?

Edited February 5, 2012 by genmyke

[Surakis]

No, I'm for convenience and "quality of life" - this is a game (you know, a recreational pastime) - and I'd rather not spend all my time playing farming Credits to occasionally get to enjoy playing my preferred spec in PvP and my preferred spec in PvE on my Scoundrel.

 

There are plenty of people who simply don't have the time (let alone the desire) to level Alts for different playstyles or roles. Dual Spec lets them pay a one-time fee up front and enjoy multiple aspects of their characters. In a casual GAME that's a good thing.

 

• It benefits people who like to Raid but don't have the time or money for constant Respecs
  
• It benefits people who like to participate in PvP and PvE Content on a Single Character/AC
  
• It benefits smaller Guilds as they are more-easily able to group up for Flashpoints and Operations
  
• It benefits large Guilds as fewer people have to sit out due to Tank/Healer shortages
  
• It benefits people who want one of each AC on their preferred Server but enjoy playing different roles on those ACs
  

 

As far as I can tell, the only thing it hurts are the sensibilities of people who think playing a Casual, Story-Based MMO should somehow require "hard work" where you have to "earn" the "right" to play 2 roles on a single character

 

I'd like the ability to insta-level toons.

I'd like the ability to insta-gear toons.

I want to be able to solo all content if I decide I don't want to group.

 

It's a "quality of life" thing. this is a game (you know, a recreational pastime) - and I'd rather not spend all my time playing leveling or gearing up to occasionally get to enjoy playing my preferred character.

 

While we're at it, when playing chess I think the Knight should be able to move like the Queen. It not fun to have to maneuver that piece all around in it's weird movement mode.

[Guzul]

It's a "quality of life" thing.

 

It's not if you have to switch on another character or repec 3 times in a raid.

[Tolil]

O for the days when you could repec to anything you wanted to. The only thing was that you had to re-earn the xp to do so.

 

You want to be a healer you could even if you were a dps, the only thing you had to do was level up as a healer. You get tired of healing you could change again but had to level up again.

 

Nope thats cruel and would make people have to play the game, and we all know having people play the game they want to play is bad right.

 

What game are you referring to? I can't think of one that lets you do this.

[Voranis]

I would rather see classes/groups balanced in such a way that you don't need 'X' class.

You should be able to roll with the classes you have and simply modify tactics to suit.

To many players seem to be brainwashed in to thinking every group needs a 'tank-healer-DPS' composition. There should be nothing wrong with being just as effective with a group of all DPS, or tanks etc. You just need to do things differently, and the game content should support this over any sort of 'dual spec' system.

 

"RrrraaaRaaarraaaaRaawww"

 

"No Chewie, we already have a tank look for a healer!"

 

"Luke, your too short to be a trooper, stick to your class-role."

[Surakis]

It's not if you have to switch on another character or repec 3 times in a raid.

 

You might want to re-read and realize context.

[genmyke]

I'd like the ability to insta-level toons.

I'd like the ability to insta-gear toons.

I want to be able to solo all content if I decide I don't want to group.

 

It's a "quality of life" thing. this is a game (you know, a recreational pastime) - and I'd rather not spend all my time playing leveling or gearing up to occasionally get to enjoy playing my preferred character.

 

While we're at it, when playing chess I think the Knight should be able to move like the Queen. It not fun to have to maneuver that piece all around in it's weird movement mode.

 

what you asking to try to counter of what is being asked (dual spec) is simply unrealistic and game altering dual spec hardly even alter the game.

[flyersfan]

I guess I am in the small minority of people that never re-specced since launch.

 

Weird how some people want to do everything.

 

I don't think it's a small minority. I've respecialised several times since launch, but they've almost all been guild-related (someone needed a tank) and then me switching back to Balance. Most people in my guild don't even know where the respecialise NPC is, so I'm sure you're not the only one.

[Guzul]

What game are you referring to? I can't think of one that lets you do this.

 

SWG a sandbox. Too bad we are in a themepark MMO.

[ferroz]

I'd like the ability to insta-level toons.

I'd like the ability to insta-gear toons.

I want to be able to solo all content if I decide I don't want to group.

Then ask for them...

 

of course, you're not actually talking about an analogous situation to dual spec.

 

While we're at it, when playing chess I think the Knight should be able to move like the Queen. It not fun to have to maneuver that piece all around in it's weird movement mode.

So, tired of strawmanning people, and now you're going for an argument by gibberish fallacy, eh? Edited February 5, 2012 by ferroz

[Surakis]

what you asking to try to counter of what is being asked (dual spec) is simply unrealistic and game altering dual spec hardly even alter the game.

 

Wait, you can say how others should play but complain when others are saying how you should play?

 

Seriously?

[Guzul]

You might want to re-read and realize context.

 

meh I don't see the point since you still ignore the real problem the ratio.

[DaxRendar]

I'd like the ability to insta-level toons.

I'd like the ability to insta-gear toons.

I want to be able to solo all content if I decide I don't want to group.

 

It's a "quality of life" thing. this is a game (you know, a recreational pastime) - and I'd rather not spend all my time playing leveling or gearing up to occasionally get to enjoy playing my preferred character.

 

While we're at it, when playing chess I think the Knight should be able to move like the Queen. It not fun to have to maneuver that piece all around in it's weird movement mode.

 

I guess my points and comments were too sensible and hit too close to the mark, because now you've left all realm of reasonable discussion behind.

 

The people arguing for Dual Spec actually want to play the game, in groups, with their friends, on their characters. Why is it you have a problem with that?

[ferroz]

Wait, you can say how others should play but complain when others are saying how you should play?

 

Seriously?

Where did he tell you how you should play?

[Tolil]

SWG a sandbox. Too bad we are in a themepark MMO.

 

Ah yes SWG. We all know how that went, don't we.