Uben Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) oh yay the roll a alt to enjoy both aspect of a game................. why should i roll the SAME AC twice? and waste character slots? right you didnt think that i would like to have classes of another AC or be on the republic. lol these unrealistic solutions The question here is.. WHAT are you using those other slots for? There are 3 styles of class here. DPS, Healer, Tank. You have 8 slots. What would you roll an alt for if you can do two of the three roles with one character. If you ROLLED an alt you would have at least two different roles, OR you just have two of the same. You obviously are NOT going to roll two of the same role by your own admission, so the point is moot. This game relies on you rolling alts. They encourage it. To see their all-so-mighty storyline. Why would they want to take about the only part of end game they have and ruin it with dual specs? I mean seriously it is not a hard go at all to level in this game. Edited February 5, 2012 by Uben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 it is simple if you dont want to use dual spec than dont does it hurt your gameplay? NO! i dont know how it will hurt your gameplay because if a group is looking for a healer they are looking for a healer dual spec doesnt even give people a advantage you guys act like you scared of a feature you never even used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 it is simple if you dont want to use dual spec than dont does it hurt your gameplay? NO! i dont know how it will hurt your gameplay because if a group is looking for a healer they are looking for a healer dual spec doesnt even give people a advantage you guys act like you scared of a feature you never even used. Lets just go with triple specs then. Why have to roll past one character at all? Quality of life and all that jazz, rah rah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Im sorry but what? Your comment makes no sense May I suggest your read what I quoted? It all should be clear then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Its a trinity class based MMO, We are not ment to do every job in our spec sheets at the drop of a hat. Hence, the need for respeccing. Just because a few hate the thought of having to go respec, it doesnt mean its a valid arguement for DS to be allowed. Just because something takes time to do, doesnt mean we should eliminate all tasks that take time. I want to have instant credits at the push of a button without having to do quests. But i have to go out and earn them...jeeesh what gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagerale Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Haven't read a single comment before replying. Why? Because there really is no sane argument against duel specs. The only real headache the dev team have is to not make it an OP - "on the fly" swtich. I don't care that you masochists want to have 2 or 3 of every class just incase you feel like healing 1 day and DPSing another - do it. Us normal people will be over here in the sane corner asking for an alternate. Actually there are a couple arguments. Bioware could have put dual spec in at launch, they spent years making the game, dual spec has been in MMO's for a long time, it was by choice they didn't want it in. Dual spec slows down people from making alts and that's a bad thing for an MMO. Making an alt is the ultimate time sink and developers want (need) that in games. So if it's a good reason or not that's a big part of why it's not in the game right now. See Rift for why it's bad to give dual spec right out of the box, good game but it quickly got boring because you can change up so easily you realize you don't need an alt, the problem with that is you don't need an alt so when you get to end game there better be a lot to do and most games at launch don't have that. Second issue is people that level a certain roll be it heal, tank or DPS learn how to play that class. As they level they figure out ability rotations, when to use what and such. Now some players still are bad, I'll admit that, but most don't get to max level as a tank or healer if they completely have no idea how to play. Opposite side of the coin, if you allow people to change rolls on the fly you will end up with players who change to healer or tank and have zero concept of what they are doing. That creates "more" of that roll so sure you can find them easier when looking for someone to group with, but the fact they have two hot bars full of skills they don't know about doesn't really make them effective. I'll also admit some can change back and forth and play both rolls flawlessly, but not everyone can. Creating more people in that roll is good, but when you allow people to play a new roll in a group by simply clicking a button you really are accepting that people will take the time to learn that roll and honestly in the MMO community now days that's not always going to happen. I'd rather have to wait for a tank or healer then have one that has no idea with the icons on the hot bar actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The question here is.. WHAT are you using those other slots for? There are 3 styles of class here. DPS, Healer, Tank. You have 8 slots. What would you roll an alt for if you can do two of the three roles with one character. If you ROLLED an alt you would have at least two different roles, OR you just have two of the same. You obviously are NOT going to roll two of the same role by your own admission, so the point is moot. This game relies on you rolling alts. They encourage it. Why would they want to take about the only part of end game they have and ruin it with dual specs? I mean seriously it is not a hard go at all to level in this game. oh you know we have 8 slots 1 for each class with different AC maybe i want to have republic and empire alts. you are right i am not going to role the same AC twice is pointless and dumb. how would dual spec ruin the game? you are same AC with a different tree....... do people not know what we mean by dual spec? do i have to paint a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumanchu_Fow Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So what about those classes that only have one roll in their ac? As a sniper I can do dps or dps. There is no second option. Why should other ac get a chance at filling a greater number of rolls without paying a price? You at least have that option but to some classes it's closed off completely. You can say that's a choice I made by playing a sniper and I can say you made your choice to spec the way you did and if you want to change it go pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanni Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It's simple, they need to add a dual spec since they creat a problem because of the FP and the Ops. You can argu as long as you want, this problem won't be solve by respecting 3 times in an hour. I'm pretty sure someone already said this, but I will repeat it since it's a "big" problem in any MMO. The holy trinity is great but the numbers of tanks, dps and healer change between the FP and Ops. This is main problem here. Right now you need 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps in a flashpoint. That mean you need more tank in this game than any other one (ex: wow, everquest) but when it comes to the operative you only need 1 tank in 8 and 1-2 in 16 man. So the ratio change to 1:1:2 to 1:2:5. So one of your tank need to respec. It's pretty fair for them to respec all the time when the rest of the raid don't have to do it. (Pretty sure in 16 you can go with a 1:3:12 ratio in some fights) The worst thing is in some fight in the operatives you will need 2 tanks. In others you just need 1 healer in 8 and 3 healer in 16. So will you send them to respec during the raid time for only one fight? (think enrage timer when you answer this question) There is 2 solutions right now for that problem. The first one: make ALL raid boss encounter with the ratio 1:1:2. No MMO yet was able to keep the dungeon ratio in raid. The second one: Dual spec, simple, easy and you can diversify all your fights as you wish. (sorry for my english) Guzul, thank you for such a well-written post. 100% agree with everything you have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This game relies on you rolling alts. They encourage it. Why would they want to take about the only part of end game they have and ruin it with dual specs? I mean seriously it is not a hard go at all to level in this game. One word: operative Will you switch a person in your raid on a fight because you need another tank, dps or an healer? Maybe he doesn't have an alt ready yet (by ready it mean gear too). So if I follow your logic you will toss away one of your friend instead of having a dual spec. Nice to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 oh you know we have 8 slots 1 for each class with different AC maybe i want to have republic and empire alts. you are right i am not going to role the same AC twice is pointless and dumb. how would dual spec ruin the game? you are same AC with a different tree....... do people not know what we mean by dual spec? do i have to paint a picture? If you had a dual spec what would you roll in those 8 slots? -What do you play now, role wise? DPS, healer or tank? Take two of the three for your DS and then tell me how many more DPS, healers, or tanks you would roll in the other slots. I mean obviously you are not going to roll two juggs right? So you cannot possibly want to roll two tanks either, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaekani Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'd like Dual Spec because as it is right now, on my Tank toon, i feel absolutely worthless when I'm questing without my Healing companion. I simply don't put out enough dps to drop enemies fast enough. Don't get me wrong, I stay alive, but god do quests take forever. And I'm restricted to just that one companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I never understood the logic behind ppls arguments against dual-spec. Seriously, if you think your personal gameplay would suffer from having a dual spec, don't use it. Using that "logic" I should be able to skip levels and get insta end-game gear because I am tired of leveling. It'll be an option and you can simply not use it. You can't argue against it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 One word: operative Will you switch a person in your raid on a fight because you need another tank, dps or an healer? Maybe he doesn't have an alt ready yet (by ready it mean gear too). So if I follow your logic you will toss away one of your friend instead of having a dual spec. Nice to know. I think his friend would just go to the respec NPC like MMOs players have been doing for over a decade. I know... crazy isnt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakito Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I guess I am in the small minority of people that never re-specced since launch. Weird how some people want to do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So what about those classes that only have one roll in their ac? As a sniper I can do dps or dps. There is no second option. Why should other ac get a chance at filling a greater number of rolls without paying a price? You at least have that option but to some classes it's closed off completely. You can say that's a choice I made by playing a sniper and I can say you made your choice to spec the way you did and if you want to change it go pay for it. maybe i want to have a pvp spec and pve spec? maybe i hate playing arsenal pvp and want to do pyro pvp since it is more mobile. honestly your argument about you picking a pure dps class holds no water i didnt hear rogues or hunters complain about dual spec in WoW. and dual spec in WoW we had to pay for it to get the feature it wasnt free...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 One word: operative Will you switch a person in your raid on a fight because you need another tank, dps or an healer? Maybe he doesn't have an alt ready yet (by ready it mean gear too). So if I follow your logic you will toss away one of your friend instead of having a dual spec. Nice to know. So you mean the DS comes with full gear? If it does not, then this is not a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Actually there are a couple arguments. Bioware could have put dual spec in at launch, they spent years making the game, dual spec has been in MMO's for a long time, it was by choice they didn't want it in. Dual spec slows down people from making alts and that's a bad thing for an MMO. Making an alt is the ultimate time sink and developers want (need) that in games. So if it's a good reason or not that's a big part of why it's not in the game right now. See Rift for why it's bad to give dual spec right out of the box, good game but it quickly got boring because you can change up so easily you realize you don't need an alt, the problem with that is you don't need an alt so when you get to end game there better be a lot to do and most games at launch don't have that. Second issue is people that level a certain roll be it heal, tank or DPS learn how to play that class. As they level they figure out ability rotations, when to use what and such. Now some players still are bad, I'll admit that, but most don't get to max level as a tank or healer if they completely have no idea how to play. Opposite side of the coin, if you allow people to change rolls on the fly you will end up with players who change to healer or tank and have zero concept of what they are doing. That creates "more" of that roll so sure you can find them easier when looking for someone to group with, but the fact they have two hot bars full of skills they don't know about doesn't really make them effective. I'll also admit some can change back and forth and play both rolls flawlessly, but not everyone can. Creating more people in that roll is good, but when you allow people to play a new roll in a group by simply clicking a button you really are accepting that people will take the time to learn that roll and honestly in the MMO community now days that's not always going to happen. I'd rather have to wait for a tank or healer then have one that has no idea with the icons on the hot bar actually do. Ok, so taking your first point - Duel spec is bad because it wasn't included at launch... Guild banks weren't included at launch, damage meters, UI customization.. saying it was a design decision without any proof whatsoever is not an argument. Your second point - flooding the player base with people who can't play the role... Welcome to MMOs! Who are you to say that someone shouldn't be able to spec to different roles just incase they suck? Your choice goes as far as wether or not you group with/continue to group with that person, not how they play or what role they choose to play. Edited February 5, 2012 by Tolil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumanchu_Fow Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 maybe i want to have a pvp spec and pve spec? maybe i hate playing arsenal pvp and want to do pyro pvp since it is more mobile. honestly your argument about you picking a pure dps class holds no water i didnt hear rogues or hunters complain about dual spec in WoW. and dual spec in WoW we had to pay for it to get the feature it wasnt free...... This isn't wow and it's a perfectly valid argument that you just don't like because it doesn't fit your needs. If you want to pve do a pve spec. If you want to pvp then pay to respec. It's far to easy to earn credits in this game as it is and nothing at all to remove them at end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanni Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So you mean the DS comes with full gear? If it does not, then this is not a good example. You obtain plenty of gear for your off-spec while doing end-game content. My tanking companion has a full set of Columi gear and my healer has half. Try harder please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think his friend would just go to the respec NPC like MMOs players have been doing for over a decade. I know... crazy isnt it! Every fight? The raid will wait 5 min each time he respec? It will be fun for his friend to pay 100k credits each time too. What you are asking is to reduce the cost of the respec by a lot and put one in front of every raid. It's far easier than a dual spec... (sarcasm) He was talking about rerolling alt instead too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthStuy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The problem with Dual Spec is that instead of having a shortage (or abundance) of people who will most likely know how to play their spec (heal, tank, dps), you will surely obtain a plethora of players who have a DPS character who thinks he knows how to heal. Just an example My two cents: Respec. no dual spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you had a dual spec what would you roll in those 8 slots? -What do you play now, role wise? DPS, healer or tank? Take two of the three for your DS and then tell me how many more DPS, healers, or tanks you would roll in the other slots. I mean obviously you are not going to roll two juggs right? So you cannot possibly want to roll two tanks either, right? easy. simple math here 8 classes total in this game 4 on empire 4 on republic they are both mirrored from each other. the classes have 2 AC which are permanent choices. the fact they have 2 AC and 4 classes on 1 side is pretty much 8 different roles i could play those 8 different AC with the 8 slots that is with dual spec. without dual spec i can still do the 8 classes on empire but from what people is telling me to reroll which is not possible i can no level the same AC twice without wasting a slot and ruining my chance to level a DIFFERENT AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) You obtain plenty of gear for your off-spec while doing end-game content. My tanking companion has a full set of Columi gear and my healer has half. Try harder please. That still shoots his example to crud. The hypothetical friend would have his gear then, right? Making it STILL a bad example. Edited February 5, 2012 by Uben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You obtain plenty of gear for your off-spec while doing end-game content. My tanking companion has a full set of Columi gear and my healer has half. Try harder please. So gear is abundant except when you roll alts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts