PvP unplayable as a Sentinel

[SpiritofSWTOR]

You just don't know how to play your class properly. I've seen AMAZING marauders such as Stamp and Kalinda.

 

Kalinda

 

 

 

Scuze me?! A level 50 killing grays?! Amazing, yes. Amazing display of why 50s had to be taken out of WZs.

[blarsen]

PvP as a Sentinal or Marauder isn't always easy. That being said you do have opportunities to do large amounts of damage and abilities that make you absolutely needed in PvP.

 

I play a Marauder so this is from a Marauder's point of view. We are the ONLY class that applies a healing debuff in addition to the one you get from just pvping. Predation and Bloodthirst buff the entire party allowing for faster movement or more damage and Berserk heals your party if you are annihilate specced.

 

As far as your damage is concerned make sure your spec is correct and your rotation is solid because you need to maximize the damage when you do get melee. Also, focus on the targets your going to hit the hardest i.e. light armor targets. Dont expect to do much wailing on a tank specced Jug or Tech.

 

I know its tough but it can be done and we can be the most deadly classes in the warzone if played properly.

 

I currently play annihilate and do 200k - 500k damage in warzones depending on if i have a dedicated healer.

[enderandrew]

Totally agree. What he said. Become his Padawan.

 

Sheesh. Force Leap is a jump-up-jump-down-***-outta-nowhere-get-you-into-melee-range-insta. Back off to 10m and do it again!

 

The problem is literally that I frequently killed at range before I can even get off the first Force Leap. When I'm not stunned immediately, and I can get in the initial Force Leap, I'm now far enough away from my healer that they may not be able to heal me. If I take the right skill tree, Force Leap stuns momentarily enough for me to get in another attack, but the other two trees really seem relatively worthless in that your opponent just moves back out of range before you can get in a second attack.

 

I am bound to stay still to fire off attacks, while others need only to move away and I'm back at square one while Force Leap is on cool down.

 

I get the class is difficult to play because of the obvious limitation of what melee DPS is. And I'm willing to deal with that so long as the classes are balanced on paper. When ranged DPS does as much damage as melee DPS, and when ranged characters can attack me while moving further away from me, while I'm forced to remain in place to activate abilities, then the classes are not balanced.

 

You'll note the consistent and constant feedback of players with faction imbalance, and how Imperial sides are dominated by Sorcs and Bounty Hunters for a reason.

 

Bioware had this same feedback in early testing and opted not to respond to it. They're getting tons of this feedback now and opting not to respond to it. That doesn't bode well for the future.

[Froznwaffles]

I've had great success with my Sentinel. I'm consistently at the top of the boards and really enjoy the class.

 

I've played a lot of wow and melee classes before so I may have picked stuff up faster than most.

 

You have to be quick with abilities and stay on targets. If you aren't keybinding and moving with your mouse then I could see how it could be very difficult/frustrating.

[Froznwaffles]

You say that you have to remain in place to use abilities. I don't understand that. You should always be moving and trying to stay on target. You can pretty much ignore master strike and force stasis, which are our only 2 channeled abilities?

[Crujido]

Although in mass pvp you are worthless (but its broken anyway), you should be topping damage on WZ's.

[Seriasx]

While you make some valid points (other than suggesting melee damage should be higher than ranged since that would harm pve), it's not unplayable. The class has a lot of defensive cooldowns and lends itself to being healed. If you're getting burned down, then you might need to pick your spots better.

 

melee should always be better dps over range classes, why would I go up in front of something in order to kill it when I could do it from 20m. away for the same dmg?

[drakhla]

My only issue with melee DPS is I suppose down to a bug. As a juggernaught I use channeled attacks like Ravage, and even though I am in range of the opponent it tells me I'm not. I don't know whether it is a sync issue or a lag issue but it seems to happen fairly often.

 

Other than that I think there are a niche class and difficult to play well, but not necessarily broken.

[Silverveign]

I have absolutely no issues PvPing successfully as a sentinel. I wreck things with the best of them.

 

Wait, there is one problem. Operatives. Those guys make the baby Jesus cry. =/

[Apocryphas]

This is hilarious, try playing a Jedi guardian. My sentinel guldie averages 400k+ dmg in WZ and has no problem surviving. With full champ and half BM gear, I die just as fast, have no escapes and do literally 50% less damage.

[Seriasx]

Although in mass pvp you are worthless (but its broken anyway), you should be topping damage on WZ's.

 

 

Yeah ok, try to explain how I can out dmg a 450k sage who presses 5 buttons per match to my barely 300k.

 

Range classes have all the advantages and none of the disadvantages right now

[gentquality]

You just don't know how to play your class properly. I've seen AMAZING marauders such as Stamp and Kalinda.

 

Kalinda

 

 

stmp

 

http://www.twitch.tv/stmp ( he streams like at 2pm est)

 

 

Watch them and learn as marauder is the hardest and most complex class to play.

 

Yep a 50 pvp geared owning a bunch of level 20-40. A Clear example of why they are fine.

[Jatne]

OP you are a moron, google some streamers from Lina_Inverse to STMP and see Marauders/Sentinels wrecking kids.

 

More PewPew less QQ.

[Silverveign]

Yeah ok, try to explain how I can out dmg a 450k sage who presses 5 buttons per match to my barely 300k.

 

Range classes have all the advantages and none of the disadvantages right now

 

I do not think that those of us that play sentinels will argue that the game play difficulty is equal to other classes. We are not a faceroll class, you must work hard in order to see the class shine. (far harder than any other class currently)

[enderandrew]

Yeah ok, try to explain how I can out dmg a 450k sage who presses 5 buttons per match to my barely 300k.

 

Range classes have all the advantages and none of the disadvantages right now

 

I honestly don't understand how anyone can contend otherwise when simply evaluating the classes on paper. Simply stating that some have overcome the limitations doesn't change that.

 

And yet Bioware has not acknowledged this, so I don't see any indication it will change.

[fishboyy]

Out of curiosity, which spec of Sentinel will allow me to do damage outside of melee range, use my abilities while moving, or prevent me from being killed and stunned before reaching melee range?

 

No one has directly addressed my enumerated concerns. Simply stating that a Sentinel can in theory cause damage doesn't change anything I've said.

 

If Imperial players are stupid enough to let me reach them, and they stand still, then I can cause damage. But that doesn't change the inherit disadvantages, which are very significant. If these disadvantages were offset by making melee DPS that much stronger than ranged DPS, that might address the issue.

 

i have a lvl 46 sentinel and using juyo form and the watchman tree almost full, with the xtra points in the other 2 trees to gain the concentration and critical hit bonuses, i can use the juyo form/overload saber/zen skills to keep myself and the rest of the party healing about 50% of the time or more, overload saber adds burn damage to your next 3 attacks and juyo form heals your character on critical burn hit, but with zen enabled it heals the whole party and you critically hit 100% of the time with your burn attacks so when zen is active your overload saber turns any attack into a burn and it automatically critically hits and also heals you and the whole party, it has enabled me to solo quite a few heroic 2+'s

don't be afraid to expiriment and respec a few times. also with force leap and force sweep you canb use a followup attack like pommel hit for great damage, you just need to learn what skills to use when, what skills stun/slow or root and what skills act as interrupts, as a sentinel you need to spam force leap to get in close.

Edited January 19, 2012 by fishboyy

[babiegirlla]

For those of you saying "I have no issues", you`re obviously not 50, or are well geared. Sents/Maras are as gear dependent as they come, unfortunately in this game because your gear comes from a) RNG or b) grinding for weeks for cent tokens, you`re just a squishy melee waiting to get destroyed. That`s why people complain, it`s impossible to gear up and it`s not fun being WORTHLESS.

 

Your burn heals and CDs aren`t even close to enough to save you.

Edited January 19, 2012 by babiegirlla

[enderandrew]

OP you are a moron, google some streamers from Lina_Inverse to STMP and see Marauders/Sentinels wrecking kids.

 

More PewPew less QQ.

 

I appreciate the personal attack, which does nothing to counter my actual points.

 

As it has already been pointed out, just because some people have had success in PvP with melee DPS classes (the two cited examples in this thread were fully geared 50s beating down on lower level players) doesn't change the facts of the matter.

 

The classes are not balanced.

[enderandrew]

i have a lvl 46 sentinel and using juyo form and the watchman tree almost full, with the xtra points in the other 2 trees to gain the concentration and critical hit bonuses, i can use the juyo form/overload saber/zen skills to keep myself and the rest of the party healing about 50% of the time or more, overload saber adds burn damage to your next 3 attacks and juyo form heals your character on critical burn hit, but with zen enabled it heals the whole party and you critically hit 100% of the time with your burn attacks so when zen is active your overload saber turns any attack into a burn and it automatically critically hits and also heals you and the whole party, it has enabled me to solo quite a few heroic 2+'s

don't be afraid to expiriment and respec a few times. also with force leap and force sweep you canb use a followup attack like pommel hit for great damage, you just need to learn what skills to use when, what skills stun/slow or root and what skills act as interrupts, as a sentinel you need to spam force leap to get in close.

 

What part of that build prevents someone from stunning you and killing you before you can get off a Force leap?

 

What part of the build changes the fact that Bounty Hunters can blast you while moving while you have to stand still for many of your abilities, meaning you can't stay in melee range to even attack back?

 

In a perfect world where someone is standing still long enough for me to rack up a few hits and get healing back to the party, a Sentinel can be useful. But any reasonable Imperial player just moves out of the way of the Sentinel, easily rendering them useless.

 

Again, the core issue is that melee DPS is not significantly higher than ranged DPS to overcome the intrinsic disadvantages of needing to get into melee range.

[Edrlin]

@OP

I'm a 50, full champion gear, Juggernaut, so I am not an expert on how the two compare, but I will try to give you my two perspectives. I'm not sure what level you are at currently, but for me, I ran tank spec most of the way PVP.

 

Level 1-19 Slow, not much damage, majority of metals from protection and taunts

Level 20-39 New fresh set of level 20 PVP gear, things got better dmg went up a good bit, lived a lot longer

level 40 new PVP set, things got good. Had saber throw for ranged, leap was awesome, damage was still not high, but rarely died.

 

Now, to your point and question, I swapped to DPS spec at 45, and started doing a lot more dmg. As melee, leap in, stun/slow unleash damage, as they are crawling away, hit a couple of other people close to you, swap back to main target, throw saber, leap, dead. Is usually how it goes. Now that I am 50, I am top 1 or 2 in the charts at the end of most of my patches unless someone like ACE from <RED> is there props to that bad mofo.

 

Now, again, I don't know how the my Republic twin stacks up, but I know they are "suppose" to be pretty equal. But, if they are much a like, it takes time, but you will soon own all but the most skilled and geared healers 1v1. Just takes a bit of time and practice IMO.

 

I can say these two things about sentinels that I have seen first hand.

 

1. I hate fighing them, even at 50 with all my gear. Their DEF seems to be so much higher than even mine. I can smash a group of republic 50s and do 3900 - 4300 to everyone in the area and I will see the Sent take like 1000 lol. Pretty tough.

 

2. I have a level 18 Merc that I have been running with two others from my guild. (Group -> 18 Merc/18 Merc/ 31 Ops). We are on Gerada the Hut. We were playing Civil War the other night and a Sentinel came running solo up to a point after we had kill the 5 people that were trying to take it. (Not saying we are just super leet or anything, just hard for 5 people in a non-50s WZ to kill three healers with burst DPS unless they are on Vent or have experience playing with each other. Teamwork really does count for so much.)

 

I called out that I was firing stun dart, all three of us unloaded, the other Merc started counting when I fired mine, fired his stun dart to stun him again. This maxed his resolve, but he was stunned for a full 8-10 seconds and he died before he even reached the steps. Now, I assume that his CC removal was down, or he was new and just didn't know that kind of stuff yet, but sometimes it is not class, sometimes, regardless of class, teamwork will win. Not saying that is your issue, just that it does happen. And, I can see how if you, or anyone, had that happen to you, you could feel like your class was sub-par, but I have a feeling there are a lot of Jedi Sents out there that love their class, hit the top of the charts, and have as much fun as I do on my Jug. Right now, I like my Merc a lot, even if it is just a baby @ lvl 18. But, it pales in comparison to the ridiculous amount of fun I have as a melee class in PVP. So, keep your chin up, do some research, and I hope you find that Sent is a really great class. I may be wrong, but I sure hope not.

[Qeuzolt]

OP: I play a hard class and want it made easier because I can't comprehend how to play it.

 

If you think a ranged class has all the advantages, go play a range! You rolled a class that doesn't your preferred play style in this game. It happens, it sucks you it took you this long to figure it out but leveling isn't hard, only time consuming.

 

I started a Sith Sorc, I personally dislike ranged classes in this game, I switched and I'm very happy now that my main is a melee. I feel you pain that melee has a rougher time especially in huttball and in ilum. But you have a gap closer, you have your own roots and stuns, if you can't use them effectively then that's not the game design that is at fault there.

 

Roll that class that just infuriates you, or that one that you think has it all and is so cool. Then you'll see the grass isn't greener, this is a game of counter classes, figure out what your favorable play style is and then kill the people that you counter and disrupt everyone you don't enough to complete the objective.

[enderandrew]

Again, I appreciate the personal attacks which don't address my points. I've been playing MMOs since the Ultima Online launch. I understand the disadvantages of melee DPS, and would not have a problem with the added difficulty if the classes were properly balanced and melee DPS could do higher burst DPS damage.

 

Ranged DPS right now can do as much damage as melee DPS, and that should never be the case.

 

To everyone telling me it gets better at high levels, I'm level 48 with all orange gear filled with purple mods. I don't have high end PvP gear, because I can't stand to play PvP as it currently stands.

 

Just last night I gave it another go thinking I'd actually be at an advantage in a 10-49 bracket at 48, and was routinely killed 3 times in a row before being able to get off a single Force Leap. I could be stunned at range and then zapped with Force Lightning, etc. I was dead with 3 seconds before the stun was gone. At best, I'd Force Leap, get in one hit, my opponent would literally step back, and then I was dead 2-3 seconds later as a full group would rain down on me from range, while I could not get in a single second melee attack because my opponent literally just walked backwards while firing on me.

 

The healers who were supposed to be healing me were telling me that the moment I'd Force Leap, I'd be more than 30m from them, and they couldn't heal me.

 

The odd thing is that Force Leap is supposed to have a momentary stun, that should allow me to chain attacks, but it does not appear to work as intended.

[strikeviperMKII]

Seriously? Speaking as a sorc, I effing hate marauders and sentinels. They have way too many stuns and roots, so much so that if I pop UW, they just stun me again and beat me down before my resolve meter even procs. Sure, I've seen Mars and Sents that are bad, but the class is OP in terms of stuns/roots (and what's with the damn stealth). I can do as much damage as them, but they can burn through my 20% armor reduction in less time than I can cast a few spells and I can't even kite them to kill them. Sometimes, if I get lucky.

 

It has gotten better now that 50's have their own pvp, but i still do not like facing a mar or a sentinel.

Edited January 19, 2012 by strikeviperMKII

[Qeuzolt]

properly balanced and melee DPS could do higher burst DPS damage.

 

lets reread that sentence over and rethink the meaning of the word balanced. Melee shouldn't do more dps because they need to be in melee. They should just have the ability to get into melee range. Called a gap closer. You have that...

[Mahdii]

As a level 50 Republic Focus spec'd Sentinel, prior to 1.1 patch the class/spec was fine.

 

Our biggest issue right now is the new CD indicator on the Quickslot bars.