SourD Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It is still new. I see the same drama queen posts in every new MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadehX Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) The only MMO that offers REAL PVP is EVE ONLINE...and that's too "challenging" for most because they can't just respawn without losing something. To be honest, for casual PVP, SWTOR isn't all that bad...just like I don't think WOW PVP is all that bad. Of course compared to Eve PVP they're both child's play, but it's simply a more "casual" form of PVP, which isn't necessarily bad. I'm sure BW will fix some of the glaring issues in the near to medium term. I for one like SWTOR so far, and this silly nerd rage after a single month is beyond laughable Edited January 20, 2012 by RadehX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsup Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 pretty bad considering roughly 300 mill was dropped on the game with 7 years in the making. just boggles my mind what they were actually doing.. maybe jacking each other off (who knows?) they didnt have to build a Brand new engine to make this game.. they didnt have to create new ideas.. all there ideas were already in other games they didnt have to create new classes... they are all mirrors of each other and still F'd up they didnt have to think of new pvp design.. same objectives as any other instanced pvp mmo out there i guess 3-4 years was spent on space flight which looks like it could of came out 5-6 years ago.. and now they claim it took a YEAR for them to develop this new pve instance they released in patch 1.1 ... what a let down.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 cause this is a 2011-2012 release. standards are and should be higher. Well I certainly havnt played all the MMOs but the ones I have played AT LAUNCH were SWG, WOW, Star Trek, Conan, LOTRO and this game has easily surpassed them. Im not sure which games you are camparing this to? What game had a better launch than this one with no bugs and a forum full of satisfied customers? You do realize its prob not possible to please over a million people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadehX Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Well I certainly havnt played all the MMOs but the ones I have played AT LAUNCH were SWG, WOW, Star Trek, Conan, LOTRO and this game has easily surpassed them. Im not sure which games you are camparing this to? What game had a better launch than this one with no bugs and a forum full of satisfied customers? You do realize its prob not possible to please over a million people? This!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient_karp Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) LINK TO STORY HERE EA stock has dropped due to poor initial performance of SWTOR. I think many people have learned a few things from the development and release of this game, particularly about the behavior of MMO consumers. Edited January 20, 2012 by Ancient_karp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytrust Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUGS. Its with the design of the game. I can deal with the bugs its the over-all layout of the pvp system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient_karp Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUGS. Its with the design of the game. I can deal with the bugs its the over-all layout of the pvp system. This. Too many design flaws, poor response to beta testing suggestions, and lack of insight into past player behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Honestly, I think I'm done with MMOs that aren't made by Blizzard. SWTOR was the last shot for me. I'm so sick of these company-skipping Devs who get paid to ruin one MMO after another. And yet, it's still such a proud point for them. How many times have you heard: "Well, these Devs are the same ones who designed PvP in Warhammer!" ... Why the heck does anyone think that's a GOOD thing? Bright Wizards, Bombing, Warrior-Priests, DoKs, Faction Imbalance, PvP game with a 95% PvE End Game, clipping, getting stuck on Terrain, Fortresses, Realm Flipping, Terrible tiered advancement (IE: Don't even think of level capping if you don't have 80 or so Prestige unless you enjoy months of being worthless), Doomflayer/Warforged... ... and I could keep going. Bottom line, these guys don't have a successful development credit to their name, yet they're hailed as the messiahs of MMOs. Why? Edited January 20, 2012 by McVade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The game is very succesful so your whole point is moot. Bad irrational rant threads are bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakks Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Why does everyone expect a first month product to be finished? The whole point of MMO's is that they keep growing as time goes on and getting more polished. To compare this game to some that have been released for 6 years is absurd. Hell, WoW shipped without any PvP systems whatsoever, but you're a complainer who's probably never played a launch mmo before. Because there are 20 other MMOs I could think of that taught lessons TOR completely ignored -- and if you're basically copying the WoW design philosophy, why ignore the pains that game went through in terms of class balance in pvp? Hell, you'd think the lesson of diminishing returns would be obvious in pvp at this point (among many others). Edited January 20, 2012 by Drakks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) The game is very succesful so your whole point is moot. Bad irrational rant threads are bad Is it? Highest projected figure is 200 million in development costs. Highest projected sales is 2 million. That's not a success yet. I can see why brokers are pulling out now. Edited January 20, 2012 by McVade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytrust Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Honestly, I think I'm done with MMOs that aren't made by Blizzard. SWTOR was the last shot for me. I'm so sick of these company-skipping Devs who get paid to ruin one MMO after another. And yet, it's still such a proud point for them. How many times have you heard: "Well, these Devs are the same ones who designed PvP in Warhammer!" ... Why the heck does anyone think that's a GOOD thing? Bright Wizards, Bombing, Warrior-Priests, DoKs, Faction Imbalance, PvP game with a 95% PvE End Game, clipping, getting stuck on Terrain, Fortresses, Realm Flipping, Terrible tiered advancement (IE: Don't even think of level capping if you don't have 80 or so Prestige unless you enjoy months of being worthless), Doomflayer/Warforged... ... and I could keep going. Bottom line, these guys don't have a successful development credit to their name, yet they're hailed as the messiahs of MMOs. Why? Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 maybe this will happen in time for warhammer 40k to rethink their game model and do something more than a gear grind instanced themepark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUGS. Its with the design of the game. I can deal with the bugs its the over-all layout of the pvp system. Well dude they arent going to change the "design" of the game overnight and hopefully not at all. If you really want to split hairs about what kills an MMO it would have to be in my opinion WHEN THEY CHANGE THE DESIGN OF THE ORIGINAL GAME. If youve ever played an mmo that died lemme ask you... did they do some kind of combat upgrade just before it tanked? probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Well, it's failing. We'll have to wait and see if it failed. Probably have a better idea 3-6 months from now. I do find it rather amazing though that BioWare was able to make the leveling experience so new and refreshing, but came up with some of the stalest and worst ideas for pvp. /mindbottling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynormous Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The game is very succesful so your whole point is moot. Bad irrational rant threads are bad Successful? You mean they successfully marketing a strong release and had crap to give anyone.... Sorry but I preordered as I was anticipating a solid game.... That is not the case, lets make judgements after the free month has ran out for people... I bet you see a massive population drop.... This is not Successful just lucky they have a decent marketing team and was able to lie enough to get idiots like me to preorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytrust Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Well dude they arent going to change the "design" of the game overnight and hopefully not at all. If you really want to split hairs about what kills an MMO it would have to be in my opinion WHEN THEY CHANGE THE DESIGN OF THE ORIGINAL GAME. If youve ever played an mmo that died lemme ask you... did they do some kind of combat upgrade just before it tanked? probably. The true answers lays in the following question.. Why did they have to CHANGE the original design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Well, it's failing. We'll have to wait and see if it failed. Probably have a better idea 3-6 months from now. I do find it rather amazing though that BioWare was able to make the leveling experience so new and refreshing, but came up with some of the stalest and worst ideas for pvp. /mindbottling I think Huttball is an awesome original idea... I cant think of another game Ive had a pvp zone like that. Atleast in an MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Successful? You mean they successfully marketing a strong release and had crap to give anyone.... Sorry but I preordered as I was anticipating a solid game.... That is not the case, lets make judgements after the free month has ran out for people... I bet you see a massive population drop.... This is not Successful just lucky they have a decent marketing team and was able to lie enough to get idiots like me to preorder. The game is very succesful. You and your MSG tainted tears have no evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I think Huttball is an awesome original idea... I cant think of another game Ive had a pvp zone like that. Atleast in an MMORPG. Sorry, should have been more clear. Warzones are pretty cool. I like those. I'm a world pvp fan at heart though, so I was speaking in terms of that (mainly Ilum). The game is very succesful. The game? Probably. PvP? Not so much right now. Edited January 20, 2012 by Amp_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Is it? Highest projected figure is 200 million in development costs. Highest projected sales is 2 million. That's not a success yet. I can see why brokers are pulling out now. Yes it is. If the keep 500k subscribers the game will probably profit 500 million dollars over the next 10 years. Given that massively conservative estimate the game is clearly very succesful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakks Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Sorry, should have been more clear. Warzones are pretty cool. I like those. I'm a world pvp fan at heart though, so I was speaking in terms of that (mainly Ilum). It's capture the flag -- and quite honestly, I'd take WoW's implementation of it over Huttball -- which is, if you think about it, only fun for players with abilites that can exploit multiple levels. Operatives and Smugglers play deathmatch while force users bounce around. But, again, the pvp was done by the same people who single-handedly destroyed Warhammer with horrible pvp. I think anyone who played that game for any amouht of time is pretty amazed those people were put back to work to reimplement the same ideas that sunk that boat. Edited January 20, 2012 by Drakks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Yes it is. If the keep 500k subscribers the game will probably profit 500 million dollars over the next 10 years. Given that massively conservative estimate the game is clearly very succesful "Probably" isn't a measure of success and precedent is against you, considering every MMO after WoW has had a 60% attrition rate in the first year. I've seen nothing that suggests this game will be different. You are also not factoring in the considerable expense of maintaining a game on this scale. And even if the game makes a marginal profit over the course of ... 10 years?... the suits at EA will say: "Well, if we had invested 200 million and hundreds of thousands of man-hours over 4-5 years to do 4 extremely good single player games instead, would we have seen more profit?" Given that Bioware is the name for single player RPGs, and the phenomenal successes of Mass Effect series and Dragon Age, the answer would be a resounding yes. So yes, even if the game does make some money over 10 years, it will be seen as a failure by EA. Before getting to that, though, they're still about 50 million in the hole. Once they clear that, we'll talk. Edited January 20, 2012 by McVade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I can't wait until Titan comes out and everyone whines when that game has bugs and/or design issues and they'll be screaming how Blizz screwed up. Or pretty much any MMO that comes out in our life time. It'll be 10+ years before these people realize....."oohhhh so games have always had bugs and/or design issues and always will". Pff even board games have bugs and/or design issues, and I'm talking brand new board games and they have to release new rule editions and eventually have revised game editions. Well said. Bioware is doing pretty well so far, the ILLUM "exploit" was hardly anything horrifying, Iv seen worse exploits,bugs in MMOs iv played past 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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