STRWRSFanforLife Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Star Wars Fan For Life. That said, Jar Jar was the absolute most annoying thing I've ever seen in a movie and I personally hate watching The Phantom Menace solely because he is such a major part of it....Fast Forward to Episode 2 and he is the Sole reason there is a Galactic Civil War..had he not voted the chancellor "Emergency Power" to create an army, there would be no war....friggin stupidest addition to the movie they could have made. The rest of all the movies we're an incredible masterpiece. As a man, I could do without the lovey dovey crap between Padame and Anakin, but I get they had to explain where Luke and Lea came from. They did an absolute incredible job tying up all the objectives of the original movies in the prequels, from Obi-Wan, Luke and Leia (and how Leia became an Organa and a Princess), Anakin becoming Vader, Yoda going into exile, the whole lot. Even if you look, the imperial fleet looks like it got updated through the years even though they had to make it backwards....kinda cool...x-wings and all. Where it all got ruined for me was, instead of possibly continuing on with great movies and special effects, we get legos and cartoons. Are you serious???? I'm sorry but every Star Wars game before Star Wars Galaxies sucked. I know because I bought them all. SWG was incredible in the beginning, but they had to ruin that too. So here we are at TOR. Another great game with even greater potential. Very much lacking in crafting to original SWG, but graphics, cinematics, and animation are off the charts. I am looking very forward to additions to come, as the original WoW was much like TOR is now, very basic. Now, 9 years later and WoW has added a ton of UI features, a great addition of open source add-ons to help where the Devs just dont have the time, but lacking in any type of storyline that is appealing, and that is where TOR has them beat hands down, and as long as they don't screw it up, in 10 years we will still be playing a great game. I hope we get more movies, no doubt there. George Lucas has to understand he is not always right. Every filmmaker, director, actor/actress has had bombs. Get over it and move on. Learn what people DON'T want to see and cater to that. The "It's mine and I'll do with it what I want attitude" is childish at best. Get over the arrogance and learn from the real critics....the people that take time out of their day to write posts suc as this, not some journalistic BS. Overall, Star Wars will always be my favorite series...games, movies, but everything can come to an end if not taken care of properly. Out of the original Dow stocks, only GE is still left. Why didn't the rest make it? Arrogance? We may never know. Good Luck in the future to the entire Star Wars team from George on down to ....eesh.. Jar Jar...you have a fan base like no other. I hope that means more than anything to you all. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodEnoughForMe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't blame Lucas, I would have had enough (and I like to think I have some thick skin,10 years in the military helps build that) of the "Han shot first" BS and all that crap. How about this you critics, go put up a few million bucks of your own money, put what YOUR vision is of Star Wars together and make it happen then sit back and let all of the other critics bash your vision with stupid Han shot first comments. Better yet come up with something as original as Star Wars was and what it represents in terms of the allegorical subject to it. Get a life, it's a movie. He OWNS it, you DON'T, you are NOT entitled to manipulate Mr. Lucas's ideas and vision of how he wants HIS movie to go. The guy owns the idea and vision if you don't like it dont watch it, go watch Star Trek. I always held out hope that something along the lines of the Old Republic would come out in a movie, looks like not gonna happen. I agree with the other poster, you can't walk out your door without some nimrod telling you how you did it wrong. Thanks again to the idots who love to ruin good stuff like this, looks like now you won't have anymore movies to spout off about Han shot first BS. Nobody is manipulating him. Again, criticism is part-and-parcel with the territory. Lucas does not have to listen to the fans, and in many ways, he hasn't. Sometimes it's not easy to take as much criticism as he has, but it's part of putting your work out for everyone to see, and wanting it to be that way. If he really wanted to make more Star Wars, and was passionate about it, some fans wouldn't deter him. He has the money and means to do it. He is just trying to pass the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elear Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I just want to post to say why we as fans have the right to be critical. Imagine you falling in love with a beautifull young woman even though she has her flaws you think she is perfect and fine the way she is. 20 Years later she is a completely different fat ugly lazy woman with strange habits and poor choices of words. Wouldn't you rather see that woman grow old gracefully and mature like fine wine. Instead of seeing her become the meatball chugging fatty that she has become. You have every right to say: ENOUGH!! STOP DOING THAT!! I want to remember the way you used to be! You have no such right. Everyone can live as they please, and no random stranger on street is supposed to tell them they are doing it wrong. Edited January 20, 2012 by Elear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodEnoughForMe Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You have no such right. Everyone can live as thye please, and no random stranger on street is supposed to tell them they are doing it wrong. Telling someone they are doing it wrong is living as some people please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnis Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Did I hit a nerve in some way? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What nerve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceciltaru Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I love the Original Trilogy - there was optimism, heart, passion, and character. As a whole, I like the Prequel Trilogy - it helps to set the stage, and show events leading to what would take place 20 years later. And yes, I've watched the red letter media reviews, and can overlook some of what is mentioned, but they did hit the nail on the head with one thing: there is no character to the films. Whether it was a they pointed out due to the fact several scenes had one live actor and tons of CGI or the stiff dialogue and forced emotions, I don't know. That doesn't keep me from watching them. My problem, as a normal, non-extreme fanboy, stems from George thinking he has to explain everything to the audience, or make tweaks that some people would not even notice. I am happy that in 1997 he released the Special Edition, even though all of the changes are things that weren't really needed. I appreciate the work to clean up the matte space scenes, so you don't see the box around the vehicles. I like seeing the celebrations at the end Return of the Jedi. I enjoyed the scene with Jabba and Han in ANH, as it was in the original cut, just with a human actor. I did not like the Greedo shot first, especially since the scene no longer made sense -- Han shot first doesn't make him a cold blooded killer as George has said, but does give him the edge a smuggler would need. I could've done without the musical number in Jabba's Palace, but do realize it was put in for the kids. So then the DVD releases in 2004 and 2007 which had more changes in them, most of which could be done without, such as the possible Jar-Jar "weesa free" scream with the added Naboo celebration scene in ROTJ. And now the blu-ray release, and we have such stupid changes like Darth Vader yelling "NO!" as he throws Palpatine down the reactor shaft, and the Eewoks blink, because everyone I talked to wondered, why their eyes didn't dry out... But what really gets me, is why explain the Force with some stupid scientific mumbo-jumbo. Leave that to Star Trek to explain the science, this is fantasy. Was it because some took it as a religious analogy? Its magic in a fantasy film, but thats ruined now. The more midi-chlorians you have running around in your blood stream talking to you, the more powerful a Jedi you are... right... I wish he wasn't being such a baby about this, and do wish he would WRITE the screenplays for some more movies, but keep it in the fantasy realm, we have Star Trek and Firefly for the sci-fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatter Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Certainly, without a doubt, insults of any kind are way out of bounds. Yes, there were parts of the prequels that I thought were less than stellar, but they were good movies I still enjoy watching. I think people were expecting too much and when the movies were less than perfect, the criticism was extremely harsh. Having said that- People around Lucas need to learn the word 'no' and use it when his ideas are less than stellar. Unfortunately, I don't think Lucas would accept constructive criticism or at least act on it if he did. His ego is too big. Everyone is kissing his arse all the time. Its hard to do great work in the absence of hard hitting honesty and criticism. He is an old and pampered dog, set in his ways. I am not attempting to level an insult, but thats just my reading of the situation. Even the most talented film makers need partners and not simply lackeys. I think his comment that critics killed the series is just an illustration of how shielded from reality he is. Most people have other people to reign them in when they go off the rails, I don't believe Lucas faces this most basic reality that most people have to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tersidre Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 imo if he is tired of the critics he needs to sell the franchise off to someone else for a hefty price tag and let them have a crack at it. I'd honestly love to see some movies set either post the original trilogy or during the timeframe that this game is set in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obadaya Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The other day (month really) I watched the 3 prequels back-to-back. ...and they were bad. ...and it's his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Maybe this analogy will shed some light. One day you wake up, and decide "hey i want to make a cupboard", purely out of woodworking passion. After your done, you show it to your wife, shes amazed and thinks its the best cupboard ever,and shows her friends how fancy and nice it is. You think to yourself, Gee, if i made that cupboard so well, i should make another. But you want to try something different, maybe you like special quarks and designs on the cupboard, spice it up, try something different for a change. You finish, and you show your wife. She is disgusted, she hates it, and tells you she hates you now too, after praising you so much. You loved your new cupboard and this is the way it was envisioned from the beginning, but she hates it, and tells her friends it was awful. They now all hate you and tell you, you should never make a cupboard ever again. Some time rolls by, and some rumors around town come up about you making a new cupboard. You tell everyone " No, i don't want to because you said I'm awful at it, and it was terrible, why would i make another one so you can just hate me more for it?" Everyone around town, including your wife now hates you even more for not making a cupboard for them to hate. Sounds crazy doesn't it, well guess what, that's exactly whats happening to George Lucas, and if you really love Star Wars, you should love it as a whole and respect him for coming up with the idea in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rynak Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Overall I loved the series. Some of episode 1 was way too childish. I was bored for parts of episode 5. Overall I loved the story and enjoyed it. I'm also a huge Star Trek fan, but guess what? I don't love every movie ever made! There's some good and some bad to every film franchise. The only issue is that he should have known that changing things would cause a backlash, just like edits to ET did. Only now we are more connected and that backlash is felt sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I'm going to fix your analogy so that it's actually correct and to fix the numerous grammatical errors: One day you wake up, and decide "Hey, I want to make a cupboard.", purely out of woodworking passion. You get help from some good people for the project who help you design and build it. After you're done, you show it to your wife. She's amazed and thinks its the best cupboard ever. She shows her friends how fancy and nice it is. You think to yourself, "Gee, if I made that cupboard so well, I should make another. This time, though, I'm going to do most of it myself, because I'm so awesome. After all, everybody told me I'm awesome.". You want to try something different. Maybe you like special quarks and designs on the cupboard, spice it up, try something different for a change. You also want to focus on making it look at good as possible, even if that means sacrificing the overall quality of the cupboard. However, you don't realize that by doing so, you're demonstrating a lack of understanding of the craft. You finish it, and you show it to your wife. She is disgusted and criticizes its poor quality, after praising you so much. You loved your new cupboard and this is the way it was envisioned from the beginning, but she hates it, and tells her friends it was awful. They now all criticize you about the poor quality of your cupboard. Some time rolls by, and some rumors around town come up about you making a new cupboard. You tell everyone, "No, I don't want to because you said I'm awful at it, and it was terrible. Why would I make another one so you can just criticize me more for it?". Everyone around town, including your wife, now wonders if you ever had any real talent to begin with. Put it into perspective and use those critical thinking skills. Edited January 21, 2012 by RagnarokJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm going to fix your analogy so that it's actually correct and to fix the numerous grammatical errors: Put it into perspective and use those critical thinking skills. See? This is what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I'm going to fix your analogy so that it's actually correct and to fix the numerous grammatical errors: Put it into perspective and use those critical thinking skills. That's just silly, why are you even posting on a Star Wars game forum if you really think that? Or did you just not get and or read the whole thing? And editing someone else's post to completely take the point i made away to further your own angry opinion is pretty obnoxious. Edited January 21, 2012 by TheLonelyTusken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's just silly, why are you even posting on a Star Wars game forum if you really think that? Or did you just not get and or read the whole thing? Rag is a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's just silly, why are you even posting on a Star Wars game forum if you really think that? Or did you just not get and or read the whole thing? And editing someone else's post to completely take the point i made away to further your own angry opinion is pretty obnoxious. Fallacies in your argument: First, criticizing a film doesn't automatically mean I hate everything with the Star Wars name on it. I disliked the PT films and Lucas' motivations for making it. Second, I originally got interested in this game because of who is developing it. If Lucas had any hand in the creation of this game, my enthusiasm would definitely not been as high. The fact that you make these arguments only reinforces how fallacious your analogy was to begin with. I know it may seem like a losing battle, but I'm going to try to educate people on why they are wrong. When people like you and Lucas take criticism as a personal attack, it's a sign of immaturity. I'm sure you'll understand this once you finish growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Rag is a troll. I'd say that coming from you, it's a compliment. But since I have no idea who you are, this comment means nothing other than that your argumentative style is at best limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Fallacies in your argument: First, criticizing a film doesn't automatically mean I hate everything with the Star Wars name on it. I disliked the PT films and Lucas' motivations for making it. Second, I originally got interested in this game because of who is developing it. If Lucas had any hand in the creation of this game, my enthusiasm would definitely not been as high. The fact that you make these arguments only reinforces how fallacious your analogy was to begin with. I know it may seem like a losing battle, but I'm going to try to educate people on why they are wrong. When people like you and Lucas take criticism as a personal attack, it's a sign of immaturity. I'm sure you'll understand this once you finish growing up. Yes but yet, in your last post you edited my argument to suggest that he never had any talent in the first place, that doesn't sound like someone who doesn't hate everything with the star wars name on it. When you say things like that, it just makes you look childish. Believing your opinion of the director is the truth and that you have to "educate people" on why their opinions are wrong is also very childish. Lastly, hes not doing it because he was criticized lightly or because he has thin skin. Hes doing it because hes being hated on, to a very excessive degree, why make another if people just hate on his ideas? it's his brand and hes done with it, so move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes but yet, in your last post you edited my argument to suggest that he never had any talent in the first place, that doesn't sound like someone who doesn't hate everything with the star wars name on it. When you say things like that, it just makes you look childish. Believing your opinion of the director is the truth and that you have to "educate people" on why their opinions are wrong is also very childish. You can say whatever you like, but that doesn't automatically make it true. In my edit of your original post, I said that people would *WONDER* whether he had any talent to begin with. That's not hatred of the person, it's a genuine question about his ability. When you're telling someone that they don't know how to write, does that mean you "hate" them? You really need to learn to apply critical thinking so that you avoid the pit-trap of making broad generalizations that are fallacious. I am educating you right now, and if you want to consider that "childish", look to my first sentence in this post. Lastly, hes not doing it because he was criticized lightly or because he has thin skin. Hes doing it because hes being hated on, to a very excessive degree, why make another if people just hate on his ideas? it's his brand and hes done with it, so move on. Look to my first sentence again. Lucas can say he's being "hated on", but that doesn't make it true. Yes, it's his intellectual property, but if he's going to mess with it in a way that people don't like, he's going to be criticized. Lucas' attitude with the constant tinkering with the original trilogy films seems to be saying to the public, "This thing that you loved and enjoyed was wrong. Here's how it should have been.". That's insulting to the people who paid money to see those films in their original format. It would be like Leonardo Da Vinci coming back and telling everyone, "You were fools to like the Mona Lisa as it is." then putting a big ugly mustache on the painting. Sure, he owns the painting, but does that make it right for him to change it in a way that no one likes? Think about that for a while- when you understand it, then you'll start to get an idea of why Lucas has been receiving so much criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartVI Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Uh, as if he doesn't deserve the hate? If he wants to take his ball and run away instead of trying to prove people wrong, he should just go ahead and do that then. Better to let the brand die than keep making it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You can say whatever you like, but that doesn't automatically make it true. In my edit of your original post, I said that people would *WONDER* whether he had any talent to begin with. That's not hatred of the person, it's a genuine question about his ability. When you're telling someone that they don't know how to write, does that mean you "hate" them? You really need to learn to apply critical thinking so that you avoid the pit-trap of making broad generalizations that are fallacious. I am educating you right now, and if you want to consider that "childish", look to my first sentence in this post. Look to my first sentence again. Lucas can say he's being "hated on", but that doesn't make it true. Yes, it's his intellectual property, but if he's going to mess with it in a way that people don't like, he's going to be criticized. Lucas' attitude with the constant tinkering with the original trilogy films seems to be saying to the public, "This thing that you loved and enjoyed was wrong. Here's how it should have been.". That's insulting to the people who paid money to see those films in their original format. It would be like Leonardo Da Vinci coming back and telling everyone, "You were fools to like the Mona Lisa as it is." then putting a big ugly mustache on the painting. Sure, he owns the painting, but does that make it right for him to change it in a way that no one likes? Think about that for a while- when you understand it, then you'll start to get an idea of why Lucas has been receiving so much criticism. First of all:I'm not saying you personally hate Lucas, I'm saying he does get lots of hate, instead of constructive criticism as people say, and non-constructive criticism wont ever lead to anything good. Second: The analogy of Da Vinci is flawed, your applying a huge change to something that is the main center of attention, putting a mustache on the woman would completely ruin the whole thing, which is not what Lucas is doing, hes just adding very miniscule things that don't take away the reason it became famous in the first place. they were small things that people overreacted to. Lucas isn't tinkering with the huge part of the Star Wars original trilogy that people loved, do you really think people love Star Wars because of how Obi-Wan yelled the Krayt Dragon sound? No. Or should i say: NNNNOOOoooooOOOooooo....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 First of all:I'm not saying you personally hate Lucas, I'm saying he does get lots of hate, instead of constructive criticism as people say, and non-constructive criticism wont ever lead to anything good. Second: The analogy of Da Vinci is flawed, your applying a huge change to something that is the main center of attention, putting a mustache on the woman would completely ruin the whole thing, which is not what Lucas is doing, hes just adding very miniscule things that don't take away the reason it became famous in the first place. they were small things that people overreacted to. Lucas isn't tinkering with the huge part of the Star Wars original trilogy that people loved, do you really think people love Star Wars because of how Obi-Wan yelled the Krayt Dragon sound? No. Or should i say: NNNNOOOoooooOOOooooo....! You're right, the changes Lucas is making to the OT films are not as big as the example I gave with Da Vinci and the Mona Lisa. However, the spirit with which such changes are made is the same. I'm sure that Lucas wouldn't receive as much criticism for making those changes *IF* he were to make the original unedited copies of the OT films available as well, because people could then just choose which version they prefer. The fact that he's not strongly implies that he wants to remake those films into his own image no matter what the public may want. That is selfishness and hypocrisy, considering that Lucas gave a speech to Congress in 1988 against altering previously-made films (in reference to Ted Turner's colorization of old black-and-white films). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You're right, the changes Lucas is making to the OT films are not as big as the example I gave with Da Vinci and the Mona Lisa. However, the spirit with which such changes are made is the same. I'm sure that Lucas wouldn't receive as much criticism for making those changes *IF* he were to make the original unedited copies of the OT films available as well, because people could then just choose which version they prefer. The fact that he's not strongly implies that he wants to remake those films into his own image no matter what the public may want. That is selfishness and hypocrisy, considering that Lucas gave a speech to Congress in 1988 against altering previously-made films (in reference to Ted Turner's colorization of old black-and-white films). I see where your coming from and i agree with you about how he should release both versions, but in reality, this thing that has become bigger than himself, is still his, and i guess I'm just bummed out that hes stopping because the fans themselves hated him so much over the past few years that he feels so strongly about stopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimwolf Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 For me, I think that the biggest reason for the criticism Lucas is receiving is due to his apparent disdain for the Expanded Universe. It was the Expanded Universe and the lore built up around it that revitalized interest in Star Wars back in the 1990's. Since then, Lucas allowed a vast amount of world building to occur that has shaped Star Wars fan's expectations of what that universe is all about. Lucas has been very public about not caring about fan's expectations. While he has every legal right to do so, making changes that invalidate large or important parts of the EU lore is a slap in the face to those who care about what Star Wars has grown to be. If Lucas had ever actually cared about what Star Wars fans care about in his movies and TV shows he would be getting a lot less criticism now and he'd probably have created a better product as well. Of course the series is his vision and he has a right to make the movies he wants to make; but, it's only an artist who paints just for himself that doesn't take into account how others will perceive his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurentiusX Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) George Lucas Blames 'Star Wars' Critics for Killing Series Lucas is the Anti-Tolkien, he turned war into a saturday morning CARTOON, he made episode 1 FOR THE KIDS, he can't tell a story worth **** without ripping off everything around him, the future of SW is and always has been in the hands of the fans not that bloated jabba wannabee. Edit: Just look at KOTOR, in all ways superior to the so called prequel "movies", for him it's all about the money, the prequel where marketing stunts, nothing more. Edited January 21, 2012 by LaurentiusX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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