Vlakrar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Lets compromise EU can have a seperate maintenance however eu sub price can raise. OK by me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urdnaxela Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Lets compromise EU can have a seperate maintenance however eu sub price can raise. it's already inflated. Europeans pay more than Americans for *******r service... how about that. and by the way, the current maintenance and all the other downtime should inflate American subs simply because it's done when it;s night in US and that means that some Americans have to work at night to "give" you your downtime while you sleep, as opposed to Europeans whom would be happy to receive their maintenance / patches during the US daytime (which would coincide with European night time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompeia Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Eurogamer.net posted the following on January the 30. I really would like to know what Bioware decided on this matter, since the news leads me to believe they are aware of our disapointment at the way the so called european servers are managed. Of course considering the second downtime this week, it seems they really didnt give a damn: BioWare has promised to discuss European Star Wars: The Old Republic maintenance windows after the service was inaccessible on Saturday from 8am to 12pm GMT. That four-hour update - patch 1.1.0c - did one thing: "Improved service to reduce the number of player disconnections to the character selection screen." BioWare explained that the change was "urgently required". "This was one situation where we had to move forward quickly," wrote community team lead Stephen Reid. "To not do so could have led to severe performance issues across the service as a whole." "I don't want to watch Saturday morning cartoons instead!" "We didn't take this [decision] lightly," he added, "and don't expect or wish it to be a regular occurrence." Reid conceded that BioWare's communication could have been better and promised "we'll improve". SWTOR usually updates weekly on a Tuesday. Tomorrow's planned maintenance will last "no more than eight hours", from 8am to 4pm GMT. For American gamers, the downtime falls from either 12am to 8am PST, or from 3am to 11am EST. "To those of you in Europe," addressed regional Reid, "I want you to know that we'll be discussing maintenance windows and how we can improve their timing this coming week. "We may not have an update immediately (and not before the scheduled maintenance on January 31st) but we have been paying attention to your opinions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urdnaxela Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Eurogamer.net posted the following on January the 30. I really would like to know what Bioware decided on this matter, since the news leads me to believe they are aware of our disapointment at the way the so called european servers are managed. Of course considering the second downtime this week, it seems they really didnt give a damn: BioWare has promised to discuss European Star Wars: The Old Republic maintenance windows after the service was inaccessible on Saturday from 8am to 12pm GMT. That four-hour update - patch 1.1.0c - did one thing: "Improved service to reduce the number of player disconnections to the character selection screen." BioWare explained that the change was "urgently required". "This was one situation where we had to move forward quickly," wrote community team lead Stephen Reid. "To not do so could have led to severe performance issues across the service as a whole." "I don't want to watch Saturday morning cartoons instead!" "We didn't take this [decision] lightly," he added, "and don't expect or wish it to be a regular occurrence." Reid conceded that BioWare's communication could have been better and promised "we'll improve". SWTOR usually updates weekly on a Tuesday. Tomorrow's planned maintenance will last "no more than eight hours", from 8am to 4pm GMT. For American gamers, the downtime falls from either 12am to 8am PST, or from 3am to 11am EST. "To those of you in Europe," addressed regional Reid, "I want you to know that we'll be discussing maintenance windows and how we can improve their timing this coming week. "We may not have an update immediately (and not before the scheduled maintenance on January 31st) but we have been paying attention to your opinions." so... TLDR: "SR: you know you're pissed. blah blah..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veofasa Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I really like the game but the downtimes is horrible. Its a deal breaker for me, to bad i subed for 6 months. (EU CET+1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananjoe Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 5. EA Services, Content and Entitlement Availability Entitlements may only be held in Accounts belonging to legal residents of countries where access to and use of Content and Entitlements is permitted. Entitlements may be purchased or acquired only from EA or an authorized retailer. EA reserves the right to refuse your request(s) to acquire Entitlements, and EA reserves the right to limit or block any request to acquire Entitlements for any reason. We do not guarantee that any Content or Entitlement will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, or at any given time or that we will continue to offer particular Content or Entitlements for any particular length of time. We reserve the right to change and update Content and Entitlements without notice to you. Once you have redeemed your Entitlements, that content is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Entitlements or for cash, or other goods or services. This and the rest of the EULA doesnt isnt even worth to be printed on toilettpaper. The legal validity of that writing is null and void in the EU. Here in Sweden it aint worth **** and cant be used as a legal document. Only in the USA they seem to think that you can Use lengthy legal sounding "pappers". In europe we still have strong consumer rights law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urdnaxela Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) This and the rest of the EULA doesnt isnt even worth to be printed on toilettpaper. The legal validity of that writing is null and void in the EU. Here in Sweden it aint worth **** and cant be used as a legal document. Only in the USA they seem to think that you can Use lengthy legal sounding "pappers". In europe we still have strong consumer rights law. shh... lots of people think any ******** american law (or american company ******** blah blah document) is applicable all over the earth... Edited February 9, 2012 by Urdnaxela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al-Baz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) It's just another symptom of American self centredness. Just because we don't live in the (ROFL) "Land of the Free" (sni gger), we don't matter. Most Yanks don't even know where Europe is, let alone give a damn.... I'm seriously considering going back to WoW - at least Blizz schedules maintenance at sensible times Edited February 9, 2012 by Al-Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTING Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The downtimes are perfect, I'm at work all day so for me its the best time they could do it, to add to this there fixing problems which is always good thing. good work Bioware:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 This and the rest of the EULA doesnt isnt even worth to be printed on toilettpaper. The legal validity of that writing is null and void in the EU. Here in Sweden it aint worth **** and cant be used as a legal document. Only in the USA they seem to think that you can Use lengthy legal sounding "pappers". In europe we still have strong consumer rights law.Correct, yes we do. And those laws say that if you agree to a legal document and undersign that you accept itr, WHICH YOU HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO PLAY THE GAME, then you are accepting of the agreement and are still bound by it. You can't turn around, a month later amd say, "oops, changed my mind..." The EULA is a binding agreement, which you have accepted. Did you bother to read it? No, then you commited fraud my friend and in doing so just nullified all of you rights. That's part of EU law as well. /thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's just another symptom of American self centredness. Just because we don't live in the (ROFL) "Land of the Free" (sni gger), we don't matter. Most Yanks don't even know where Europe is, let alone give a damn.... I'm seriously considering going back to WoW - at least Blizz schedules maintenance at sensible times Bye then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlashbios Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The downtimes are perfect, I'm at work all day so for me its the best time they could do it, to add to this there fixing problems which is always good thing. good work Bioware:) It's almost like that would be the majority of people too, that are at work or at school during the day. Imagine that...Bioware are carrying out maintenance during a period that suits the majority. Regardless, Bioware have already stated that they are looking at what they can do about adjusting the time of the European maintenance window so that it affects even less people than the current maintenance slot. Patience, people. I know it's a silly Jedi concept, but try it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I believe bioware had a meeting last week about maintenance times and server location. Does anyone know what the outcome of that meeting was? From what I could gather we were meant to get some sort of communication back out of that meeting but I haven't seen any on dev tracker.. Maybe I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlashbios Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The EULA is a binding agreement, which you have accepted. Did you bother to read it? No, then you commited fraud my friend and in doing so just nullified all of you rights. That's part of EU law as well. /thread! Ermm...no it isn't. Or at least not in the UK. If you sign a contract that has what would legally be regarded as unfair contract terms, it is not legally binding. It would in fact come under the legal framework regarding "unfair contract provisions", whereby signing a contract that eroded your statutory rights (just one example of many unfair contract provisons), would make that contract null and void. In other words, just because an EULA says something and you have accepted that EULA, it doesn't make it legally binding. It is important to differentiate here between what is legally binding within a given country and what is not, and EULA's written in America may well fall foul of UK contract law and cannot be enforced or held up as legally binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryttos Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 People have been arguing since the launch of Everquest 1 about patch times and their timezone. It happens people. You CANNOT please everyone. If the game does, then it must suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deminicord Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Correct, yes we do. And those laws say that if you agree to a legal document and undersign that you accept itr, WHICH YOU HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO PLAY THE GAME, then you are accepting of the agreement and are still bound by it. You can't turn around, a month later amd say, "oops, changed my mind..." The EULA is a binding agreement, which you have accepted. Did you bother to read it? No, then you commited fraud my friend and in doing so just nullified all of you rights. That's part of EU law as well. /thread! It isn't a binding "contract" because we couldn't read it before we bought the game. therefore it is not binding according to eu customer protection laws. Edited February 9, 2012 by deminicord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Here we go again! Another patch at the same time! Bioware come on guys, this is not cool! We have been told that maintenance is going to occur "1 time per week" and yet here we are, this will be the second time this week at the exact same time. Vary the maintenance times to affect all players who all pay the same fees or give me $ back for time missed due to maintenance end of story! I have a job, it just happens to be second shift, am I to be shunned for accepting a 2nd shift job in this wretched economy? To all the haters of 2nd shift workers out there, think of what you would do if you couldn't play SWTOR without your late night Taco Bell! Keep this post going guys, let's make a difference on this! THERE IS MORE PEOPLE ON AT THESE TIMES, YOU ARE PATCHING DURING THE MIDDLE OF PEAK HOURS!!!!!!!!!! Stay true to your word and listen to the community! It isn't just Europe that this affects! Is it possible to "prove" that you are patching at "off peak" hours? Looking at 210 people on Imperial Fleet right now and I am pretty sure their isnt that many people on at say 9AM CST. Can we get a spreadsheet of server populations or a way to monitor this? they do maintenance during work hours. Sorry that their work hours are during your peak hours. But they're not likely to change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Im sorry, but this seems really strange to me... In the thread made yesterday http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=691258#edit691258 bioware announced the weekly maintenance and that they would try their best to keep these weekly maintenance's on off peak-hours. And that seems correct in the US, but in europe the time is 10AM to 4PM.... How is that in anyway during off peak-hours. Its in the middle off the day. They even have physical servers in europe so why cant we have maintenance on those servers when its the best time for us and not when its the best time for the US? I really dont understand their reasoning for this and its rather annoying knowing that the servers will be unavailable every tuesday afternoon. Hopefully we can get some clarification on this or maybe its just me overreacting? Where is the button to report Bioware for trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The EULA is a binding agreement, which you have accepted. Did you bother to read it? No, then you commited fraud my friend and in doing so just nullified all of you rights. That's part of EU law as well. /thread! No its not. They still have to follow the EU customer laws and the laws inside the specific country where the game is sold. Both laws goes above anything anyone has written in a text file on the CD/DVD inside the case. No company is allowed to make up their own laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeyb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Why dont they just alternate every time they do down time? just bring down 10 to 4 USA time, then next time they path EU 10 to 4. I dont understand how that would be so hard to do...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It isn't a binding "contract" because we couldn't read it before we bought the game. therefore it is not binding according to eu customer protection laws. Irrelevant. Using that argument, the best you could pull off would be a refund of the sale price. In order to set up an account and actually subscribe, you needed to agree to the terms before completion of the registration. The EULA becomes a service contract (term used loosely), much like the service contracts most of us agree to when setting up internet access. If you want to attack that service contract (and you have every right to), and point out a case where the terms of the contract is illegal, the most common resolution is that the entire contract is voided ...thus terminating your access to the service. An example couched in hyperbole: I write a contract that states: I make you a sandwich every day at noon and in payment, you pay me $100 and the perpetual use of your firstborn child as a slave. If you accept that contract, neither of us can compel your child to become a slave, as that is illegal. However, (in most cases) that doesn't mean that you get to pretend those words just don't exist. The contract was founded on an illegal term, thus the contract cannot be fulfilled and the entire contract is void. You can't force me to keep making sandwiches for you, but you can demand your $100 back. Same thing happens here. Your service contract with Bioware (agreed to before you created your account) says that there may be downtime where you can't play and that you're not entitled to any compensation for this. If you want to claim this is illegal, then you're not entitled to access the account, either. Feel free to try that argument in court. I'll even be willing to hold onto all your equipment during the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Why dont they just alternate every time they do down time? just bring down 10 to 4 USA time, then next time they path EU 10 to 4. I dont understand how that would be so hard to do...... Er... you're missing the point. 10am to 4pm in Austin, TX would be 5pm to 11pm in Paris. That would be putting the maintenance period over the real peak times in Europe. Here's an idea: Why don't we ask Bioware to pick the stretch of time where the lowest total number of players --across the entire world-- are playing the game and do it then. I wonder what time range that would be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 they do maintenance during work hours. Sorry that their work hours are during your peak hours. But they're not likely to change anything. If they change it on the EU servers I will go their and be done with this. And we cannot validate this statement, they have only stated "they will perform "weekly" maintenance during "off-peak" hours. Those are both lies as we have seen 12 patches in the last month which is 3x the amount of "weekly" patches resulting in a total of ~55 hours of paid gametime that players have lost. If any other company did this to their "customers" they would probably not be so happy. Not sure why MMO dev's get off so lightly in this situation's, they are a business just like any other business and need to be held accountable. Not that it matters to them, but I pre paid for a 3 month sub, if these patch times stay as they are and the EU servers patch times do not change I'm moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananjoe Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Irrelevant. Using that argument, the best you could pull off would be a refund of the sale price. In order to set up an account and actually subscribe, you needed to agree to the terms before completion of the registration. The EULA becomes a service contract (term used loosely), much like the service contracts most of us agree to when setting up internet access. If you want to attack that service contract (and you have every right to), and point out a case where the terms of the contract is illegal, the most common resolution is that the entire contract is voided ...thus terminating your access to the service. An example couched in hyperbole: I write a contract that states: I make you a sandwich every day at noon and in payment, you pay me $100 and the perpetual use of your firstborn child as a slave. If you accept that contract, neither of us can compel your child to become a slave, as that is illegal. However, (in most cases) that doesn't mean that you get to pretend those words just don't exist. The contract was founded on an illegal term, thus the contract cannot be fulfilled and the entire contract is void. You can't force me to keep making sandwiches for you, but you can demand your $100 back. Same thing happens here. Your service contract with Bioware (agreed to before you created your account) says that there may be downtime where you can't play and that you're not entitled to any compensation for this. If you want to claim this is illegal, then you're not entitled to access the account, either. Feel free to try that argument in court. I'll even be willing to hold onto all your equipment during the process. Actually the swedish courts have already ruled that a mouseclick isnt leagally binding and dont replace a signature. And to have a legal contract of any sort you need a signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Feel free to try that argument in court. I'll even be willing to hold onto all your equipment during the process. Probably only works in america where the people lacks rights against the corporations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts