IcyFisty Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There is a gun pointed toward a chair. Whenever a person sits in the chair there is a 50% chance of them getting shot in the face. Don't the people that get shot in the face have the right to complain about getting shafted even when the system in place was fair? Of course because no one gives a **** about the system. It's the results it produces that anyone cares about. Now stop being pedantic your wasting bits on hard drives around the world. Your example is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This isn't a live or die scenario, this is more like winning the lottery. Sorry you haven't been getting the golden ticket. Now shutup so we have more space for people with valid points and better analogies on our hard drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revanmug Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) you do know this game's pvp is team based and every member of the team contributes. no one person can carry, but of course you are some kind of special little snow flake that is the exception to this rule right? I jump, I spam strike and I do 10k damage with nothing else. I'm not being carry though, I contributed. I afk also because I like doing this job. I'm not being carry though, I contributed. Common sense? You have none sir. People can be carried by the simple fact that the same class with a competent player could do much much more. That has nothing with hardcore or casual. Just that you can use your brain but... so few people has one. What a shame. Edited January 17, 2012 by Revanmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetickone Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I know it doesn't seem that way when you're unlucky, but a luck based system is actually the most egalitarian system there is. surely this is a joke right, or do you think you're being clever? "Egalitarian" means "a trend that favors equality." There could not be a less egalitarian system than a random one. Even if everyone plays by the same rule, that rule -- by definition -- favors some over others. Nonegalitarian loot systems are offensive -- maybe they are acceptable in North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia, but I suspect they offend most people from the the US and countries in the EU. Edited January 17, 2012 by Bluetickone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchayka Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If you need better analogy, there's one. You work in company that does not give you sallary, but plays a lottery each month. Whoever got lucky gets nice prize, everyone else go home with 1$ which is guaranteed. Some ppl try to work hard, some are just wondering the streets.. in this company nobody cares what do you do as long as you visit the place once a day. Chances to get that lottery prize are same. Fair, huh? But when you go unpaid 10th time you just want to fck it hard and get a real job with real sallary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Your example is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This isn't a live or die scenario, this is more like winning the lottery. Sorry you haven't been getting the golden ticket. Now shutup so we have more space for people with valid points and better analogies on our hard drives. I've gotten 4 pieces out of 9 bags. I have gotten the golden ticket by most people's standards. Also here's the definition for analogy. Even though I've been fortunate I understand people's gripes with the system. Edited January 17, 2012 by Kronus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcyFisty Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I've gotten 4 pieces out of 9 bags. I have gotten the golden ticket by most people's standards. Also here the definition for analogy. Even though I've been fortunate I understand people's gripes with the system. Ahh, stepping away from angry words and bad insults about bits on harddrives? Oh! And a dictionary definition. How lucky of me! Your example was really bad. You must admit that. Not getting gear cannot be equated to getting shot if you sit down in your chair of death. Even if you understand people's gripes about not getting gear as fast as other people because it is lottery based you cannot deny that since everyone has the same chance to get gear it is a fair system. Could there be a better one? Sure, why not. Discuss it, make a thread about it. But then, you didn't give an example of a better system did you? You made an example about people getting shot, essentially comparing it to not getting gear. Maybe I misused the word analogy, but my grasp of the english language at least gives me the common sense to realise that what you said was idiotic. You on the other hand... Edited January 17, 2012 by IcyFisty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) No one ever mentions that the Expertise cap is 10% either, but everyone likes to QQ about Expertise. Weird, because with full BM, you can get over 11% exp. And when the next tier drops, you can get even higher. Of course I'd like to see the proof of this "10% cap", as I currently have 10.77%, and I'm missing two pieces of Champion gear. Naturally, I assume you're pulling this out of your ***, or still think the Beta caps (you know, when you get expertise gear starting at 20) apply to Live. From what I've seen, the cap is actually 20%. But, the cap really is irrelevant because you can't reach it with the current gear in the game. BM gear is only level 60, and Valor caps at level 100. So its pretty safe to say that there will be higher tiers of gear later on, particularly because this is all subsets of Tier 1. Edited January 17, 2012 by TetraCleric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Even if you understand people's gripes about not getting gear as fast as other people because it is lottery based you cannot deny that since everyone has the same chance to get gear it is a fair system. There is a gun pointed toward a chair. Whenever a person sits in the chair there is a 50% chance of them getting shot in the face. Don't the people that get shot in the face have the right to complain about getting shafted even when the system in place was fair? Of course because no one gives a **** about the system. It's the results it produces that anyone cares about. Now stop being pedantic your wasting bits on hard drives around the world. Do you have eyes? Edited January 17, 2012 by Kronus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWatson Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I really like what they're doing to Battlemaster tokens. I think they should do it to all types of gear, not just BM. For instance, I opened 11 champion bags (my first 11, I should say) and I got 4 tokens for gear. Unfortunately, all 4 in a row were the bracers. I understand it's a random roll to get gear, and what piece it is (or is it random on the piece? I assume so, it makes sense, correct me if that is wrong, I'd appreciate it)(also, I don't mind the randomness for getting a token), but working hard and getting rewarded with the same item I only need one of, four times, is a big annoyance. If I put in a bunch of hard work to get my gear, and get the same item in a row many times and nothing else, is that fair? In a way, it is, but I feel the system should be more rewarding and give us different pieces more often. This is just my opinion, I'm not whining or hating or anything, and I hope I don't come off that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtydurst Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I opened my bags today... got pants, shirt and weapon. Last week I got Bracer, gloves, belt, boots and a relic. Had enough comms to buy a shotgun from the cent guy. I don't pvp often, a few matches here and there to kill time. I'm not a competitive PvPer by any stretch of the imagination... I don't see how anyone who PvPs regularly cannot have PvP gear. I think I've opened 3 bags from tokens, rest were daily/weekly rewards. It's a non-issue issue... seems to me it's an excuse people make for not winning every single solitary match against everyone all the time. You don't get it because you're *********** lucky beyond belief. Your experience is not even close to the average player. You're exactly why people come on here and *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneJohn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) No, but my team of 3-4 carries 90% of the pvpers all the time. While you goofballs are running off leaving the only healer to watch a turret, and the best dps guarding another so you guys can win while pretending to be useful chasing that sage all around the map. TheRealMesk- Seriously if your going to post something please A. make it have value to the topic. and B. make sure your comments dont make you look like such a tool. Your group of 3-4 does not "carry" the other 5-4 people playing. You may think this and you may combat with me that this is not the case, but your special club decoder rings do not make you better at pvp. --------------------------------------------------------- Now to the real topic. I will have to agree as far as the progression of gear goes in pvp it is some what flawed. Most people just go straight for champ bags for their gear. This is a FAIR SYSTEM random is as fair as you can possibly get and by denying that your just lying to yourself. Or you just dont want to comprehend this fact. I will agree i do not like random. I like to min/max my gear based on what i have. Example: i have an amazing set of gloves and a bad helm. I would rather get champ helm then gloves at this point in time. Random makes it to where i have no choice of that kind of gear i get. I strongly encourage the system to go by something other then valor. A system im sure with rated warzones they will bring. Valor is a over all system. Its not by skill or anything like that its time. We need a rating system and have a progression of points towards gear. Just my thought. Again RANDOM IS FAIR, but i also do not like a random gear system. Edited January 17, 2012 by InsaneJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I just hit 50 2 days ago and I started 5 days before launch, average about 500-700 warzone tokens a day during my playtime. So hit 50 and am stuck in huttball hell, illum is deserted and with no real world pvp to speak of warzones is all I have. Champ bags with a gift maybe the only thing that keeps me here. What a waste of a game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The prevelance of duplicate items is my only issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBrave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You're not understanding. People do not feel that they are entitled to the Champion gear. They feel that they are entitled to an equal progression system for achieving the gear. As it currently stands, this is not the case due to the RNG of the bag loot. This allows some people to get a very significant gear advantage purely based on luck. The system is neither based on merit nor effort, but on luck. +9999 Everybody wants a fair progression system. Not this RNG garbage Bioware pooped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneJohn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I just hit 50 2 days ago and I started 5 days before launch, average about 500-700 warzone tokens a day during my playtime. So hit 50 and am stuck in huttball hell, illum is deserted and with no real world pvp to speak of warzones is all I have. Champ bags with a gift maybe the only thing that keeps me here. What a waste of a game... Trolls are bad at life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcyFisty Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Do you have eyes? You so poorly articulated your point that I find it hard to believe you even understood what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) You so poorly articulated your point that I find it hard to believe you even understood what you said. You realize that I wrote exactly what you said I didn't write right? I was genuinely concerned that you mightn't have had eyes to have missed that because you were responding to my posts as if you read them. Edited January 17, 2012 by Kronus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosswind Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The prevelance of duplicate items is my only issue. This is really the core of the issue. Once you get an item, bags should no longer drop that item for you in the future as long as it remains equipped/in your inventory/in your bank. I don't mind opening 60 bags and having 59 of them be commendations. That's the breaks, but at least there is some value to be gained. What irks me is that you can roll the same item multiple times. You should always find some sort of value from a gear bag and those items are just being trashed. HOW they do something like that is a little tricky, though. Especially with them making it so mods can be taken out of items and fit in elsewhere, this may be tough to accomplish. Perhaps the Armoring/hilt/barrel is the piece tracked instead of the full item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebpi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is really the core of the issue. Once you get an item, bags should no longer drop that item for you in the future as long as it remains equipped/in your inventory/in your bank. I don't mind opening 60 bags and having 59 of them be commendations. That's the breaks, but at least there is some value to be gained. What irks me is that you can roll the same item multiple times. You should always find some sort of value from a gear bag and those items are just being trashed. HOW they do something like that is a little tricky, though. Especially with them making it so mods can be taken out of items and fit in elsewhere, this may be tough to accomplish. Perhaps the Armoring/hilt/barrel is the piece tracked instead of the full item? I do agree with this. There should be 2 changes. -Rename Champ bags to Centurion bags, rename BM bags to Champ bags. -Have the OPTION to take the item OR 3 tokens, rather than being forced to take a dupe+1 The fact that some can achieve a full set of champ before centurion is due to the drop rate of champ gear being too high. Don't be surprised if this is nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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