Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I played Dota for years. An MMO warzone style game with no out-of-match progression and an even playing field every match. It was far more fun than PvP in an actual MMO, that's for sure. I didn't need a gear grind to have fun. And you expected SWTOR to be like Dota? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Im all for it dude, dont get me wrong. wasn't calling you conceded... sorry if it came off that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Early DAoC was the last meaningful pvp I saw in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 +1 That's apples to oranges. In any FPS the equalizer is the headshot. Give the new lvl 10 the ability to "headshot" their fully geared lvl 50 counterpart and you can have your silly gear. So wait, some gear upgrades are ok and lvl 10s should be on equal footing to 50s? Did you mistakenly buy the wrong game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceManLoneWolf Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Do it like Team Fortress 2 where even with the basic gear you can compete against people using unlocked gear. The unlocked gear provides alternative benefits in place of your existing ones and can be unlocked by simply just playing the game, completing achievements, through trade, or via cash. Also in Team Fortress 2 you have gear that's simply cosmetic. As it turns out there are many people very interested in playing until they are rewarded with this sort of gear or even spending money to purchase it directly. Edited January 17, 2012 by IceManLoneWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So wait, some gear upgrades are ok and lvl 10s should be on equal footing to 50s? Did you mistakenly buy the wrong game? Again, you seem to be confused. In PvP it is supposed to be about the player, not the character. Also, I should probably point out that of all the games mentioned so far, only GW has been used in actual tournament play because they correctly normalized PvP by removing the PvE from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axorman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So wait, some gear upgrades are ok and lvl 10s should be on equal footing to 50s? Did you mistakenly buy the wrong game? Again apples to oranges. In a FPS a new player can compete with a veteran if he is skilled (headshot). Gear while it helps doesn't always determine the outcome there. If lvl 10s can't be on equal footing with lvl 50s why put them in the same WZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) That is incorrect. There are lots of ways to have character growth and progression without creating gear sets to stomp on the previous gear set. but i still dont understand what you would want, if not with gear how would someone progress, and what is to keep them from say doing it in 2 days and it taking you 20 days to accomplish, for 18 days they were superior to you anyway. gear progression is really the only way to do it. people have to stop complaining about progression, YOU CAN DO IT TOO !!! if you dont have the time to do it in a timely manner then suffer until you finish. Edited January 17, 2012 by Vegathegreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Again, you seem to be confused. In PvP it is supposed to be about the player, not the character. Also, I should probably point out that of all the games mentioned so far, only GW has been used in actual tournament play because they correctly normalized PvP by removing the PvE from it. Exactly. GW did/does it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) but i still dont understand what you would want, if not with gear how would someone progress, and what is to keep them from say doing it in 2 days and it taking you 20 days to accomplish, for 18 days they were superior to you anyway. gear progression is really the only way to do it. people have to stop complaining about progression, YOU CAN DO IT TOO !!! if you dont have the time to do it in a timely manner then suffer until you finish. your not getting the picture... those people with gear now, didn't have the grind like the rest, they got there first, had easy mode gear grind now the rest of the population have to suffer through losses to get ther gear... dont you see that? why should the word suffer even be in an mmo... it doesn't denote fun. Edited January 17, 2012 by TheRiddick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Again, you seem to be confused. In PvP it is supposed to be about the player, not the character. Also, I should probably point out that of all the games mentioned so far, only GW has been used in actual tournament play because they correctly normalized PvP by removing the PvE from it. Well if you do this then you basically tell everyone that the progressed toon is useless, it merits no benefit and there for you grinded for nothing as everyone has the same worth. which in itself is boring and in my opinion a game not worth playing. mmo's are like RL, the people who work hard benefit and the people who want handouts get stepped on by the ones who work hard. If you do not like this, then this genre is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceManLoneWolf Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I think once you have the gear you suffer as well as you wait for everyone to catch up. Others may like rapestomping someone thanks to your unfair advantage, but I enjoy being challenged. Edited January 17, 2012 by IceManLoneWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ^ I think once you have the gear you suffer as well as you wait for everyone to catch up. Others may like rapestomping someone thanks to your unfair advantage, but I enjoy being challenged. you can always use your old gear if this becomes the case or you can challenege yourself to new heights like most good players do and take on 2-4 people solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well if you do this then you basically tell everyone that the progressed toon is useless, it merits no benefit and there for you grinded for nothing as everyone has the same worth. which in itself is boring and in my opinion a game not worth playing. mmo's are like RL, the people who work hard benefit and the people who want handouts get stepped on by the ones who work hard. If you do not like this, then this genre is not for you. omg did you say MMO's are like RL? uhm no they are not, do you see people in real life running around with light sabers, who can bring back people from the dead? who can take poeple from thier death bed and make them brand new? cummon man MMO's are an escape from reality, that is why they are so poplular, RL sucks, thats why I MMO HAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Again, you seem to be confused. In PvP it is supposed to be about the player, not the character. Again, you seem to be confused. SWTOR is about character progression. You've apparently purchased the wrong game. Also, I should probably point out that of all the games mentioned so far, only GW has been used in actual tournament play because they correctly normalized PvP by removing the PvE from it. GW did not have a monthly fee. In fact I can think of no games that include monthly fees and remove gear as a factor from pvp. On the flip side the most popular purely pvp games all have some form of character progression. Hell, some of them can be bought with real money. But yeah... remove gear as an issue and SWTOR will be the PVP game to end all, amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceManLoneWolf Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 you can always use your old gear if this becomes the case or you can challenege yourself to new heights like most good players do and take on 2-4 people solo.Not everyone is going to be in green gear though so no I can't unless I"m going to be scouting players and switching gear on the spot constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Discuss.... You want MOBA. You play MMO. You want MOBA. You play MMO. Let it sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) omg did you say MMO's are like RL? uhm no they are not, do you see people in real life running around with light sabers, who can bring back people from the dead? who can take poeple from thier death bed and make them brand new? cummon man MMO's are an escape from reality, that is why they are so poplular, RL sucks, thats why I MMO HAHA well you can keep thinking however you want and not progress, or you can man up and progress, farm the gear and be on equal terms with the people at the top. then you can play them and compete vs equal geared opponents. this whole thing about wanting the game to be fair before you even reach the end of the content is insane. finsih the content, fight the others who have finished the content, then you can complain about X's and O's how people expect 30% finsihed content to be fair vs people who have finished 80% of the content is ridiculous Edited January 17, 2012 by Vegathegreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Again apples to oranges. In a FPS a new player can compete with a veteran if he is skilled (headshot). Gear while it helps doesn't always determine the outcome there. If lvl 10s can't be on equal footing with lvl 50s why put them in the same WZ? Can you read patch notes or do I have an unfair advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revanmug Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 expound... or I am assuming that you mean this is why GW is a step up from all the other mmo's of its generation, It provides a top quality gaming experience without the lame monthly that other MMO's charge for cut rate content cause that sir... is the truth... heh pvp wise? very true. I doubt anything can beat gw on that. Pve wise? lol no... just... no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Again, you seem to be confused. In PvP it is supposed to be about the player, not the character. Also, I should probably point out that of all the games mentioned so far, only GW has been used in actual tournament play because they correctly normalized PvP by removing the PvE from it. This. So much. 1. Gear progression (i.e. gradually increasing stats through the introduction of new "tiers") is for PvE, because bosses have scaling health as part of increased difficulty. 2. Gear progression is DETRIMENTAL to quality PvP because it creates stat imbalances that give advantages that do not revolve around skill or knowledge of the class. 3. Instanced PvP should have normalized stats. It is possible that this could also work on Ilum and in the Outlaw's Den. This would also involve the complete removal the expertise stat. 4. PvE gear needs a PvE stat so that players who focus on PvE don't become monsters in world PvP as new tiers are introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriahheeplol Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because there's not a thing wrong with having to grind pvp gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilianus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Early DAoC was the last meaningful pvp I saw in a game. Signed. Get your stuff in PvE, pimp it with some crafting items and gain ranks by earning points in PvP. No more superduperuber PvP sets which cost over 1.2 billion victory tags per item - that would be a major improvement in modern MMOs. Leave WoW behind finally! Edited January 17, 2012 by Maximilianus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 well you can keep thinking however you want and not progress, or you can man up and progress, farm the gear and be on equal terms with the people at the top. then you can play them and compete vs equal geared opponents. this whole thing about wanting the game to be fair before you even reach the end of the content is insane. finsih the content, fight the others who have finished the content, then you can complain about X's and O's how people expect 30% finsihed content to be fair vs people who have finished 80% of the content is ridiculous orrrrrrrrrrrr we could have same stats with bolster, and if you truly are a better player you beat the pants off me, p.s I have full champ set working on BM, so i have done the grind and i still say it is stupid as hell progression in skill is so much better than progression in gear, that way you actually KNOW you are better than the other oppenent/team rather than thinking "i worked to get this gear, therefore i AM better" neh, you are a pansy discuised as a dandylion :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This. So much. 1. Gear progression (i.e. gradually increasing stats through the introduction of new "tiers") is for PvE, because bosses have scaling health as part of increased difficulty. 2. Gear progression is DETRIMENTAL to quality PvP because it creates stat imbalances that give advantages that do not revolve around skill or knowledge of the class. 3. Instanced PvP should have normalized stats. It is possible that this could also work on Ilum and in the Outlaw's Den. This would also involve the complete removal the expertise stat. 4. PvE gear needs a PvE stat so that players who focus on PvE don't become monsters in world PvP as new tiers are introduced. Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, League of Legends... you're doing it wrong, you should be charging $15 a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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