Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Cythereal]

Oh, I have no issues with her being an f/f romance option (it would be quite interesting, actually).

 

The way you worded the post it seems as if Hunter can only be interested in the female Agent when parading as a man but not in her female form (I find that troubling..IT MUST BE STRAIGHT OR IT CAN'T HAPPEN).

 

I actually haven't gotten that far in the IA storyline so I don't know what I'm talking about, ofc XD

 

The impression I got was that Hunter had trouble admitting she had fallen in love with a woman. Easy to admit it when you're masquerading as a man, but can be much harder to admit as a woman. Not everyone has an easy time coming out of the closet.

 

If that was the intent, then I applaud Bioware for it and could see some s/s companion romances occurring along similar lines. Elara Dorne, for example, is a character I'd love to romance as a female Trooper, but I don't see her readily admitting to loving another woman. Given her extremely conservative personality and background, I could see a lesbian relationship with her taking a while to bloom.

[stuffystuffs]

The impression I got was that Hunter had trouble admitting she had fallen in love with a woman. Easy to admit it when you're masquerading as a man, but can be much harder to admit as a woman. Not everyone has an easy time coming out of the closet.

 

If that was the intent, then I applaud Bioware for it and could see some s/s companion romances occurring along similar lines. Elara Dorne, for example, is a character I'd love to romance as a female Trooper, but I don't see her readily admitting to loving another woman. Given her extremely conservative personality and background, I could see a lesbian relationship with her taking a while to bloom.

 

Ah, I see...then that's interesting...maybe they'll expand upon it in the future.

[Nozybidaj]

I disagree that they should make every companion Bi, which was one of the OP's suggestions.

 

If they had dozens of companions per class and multiple romance options per class, maybe (still most likely not) I would agree with you. As it is with the limited number of companions and even more limited number of romance options it simply isn't feasible. I'm sure folks just having to deal with the fact that someone else in the game has a romance with the same companion but as a different gender will just have to deal. It is a far better option than not allowing people to participate in the romance story arcs at all like it is today.

 

This, in my opinion, dilutes the individuality of the companions. They should have full personalities of their own, which should include their own sexual preference. This is part of what makes TOR such a vibrant world in my opinion.

 

Huh? So your entire opinion of the character is wrapped up in their sexuality? If they add same gender romance options the current companions "personality" doesn't change at all, they won't start using different lines of dialogue or reacting to your LS/DS choices any differently, the character is still the exact same character.

 

These two arguments in particular always stink of high levels of selfishness to me. People would rather other people have no access at all to the game's content than have to personally deal with the fact someone else wants to interact with the game differently than they do. I will never understand that line of thought.

 

The best solution for everyone at the moment is to just add in the missing romance content for same gender options to the existing companions. No new content needs created, all the quests, dialogue, everything is already in the game ready to go. All they need to do is give the same options to same gender PC characters. Then if in the future they want to add characters to fill specific token roles ("i'm the hetero companion", "i'm the gay companion", etc) have at it.

 

The base line content needs to be completed first though so that the groups currently being excluded from the game content can actually participate fully in the game. All this really applies equal to same gender flirt options as well, not just companion romances.

[Teraphin]

Just for curiosity do any of the companions ever make a statement that they may not be open to SGR? I have not seen any thing along those lines.

To say that "you" don't see how they might be into my character of the same gender is really just "you're" perspective isn't it?

Why do we keep saying that they are straight? That is not really the case. it is more that they are not allowed to experience any thing else which is sad.

[Mechavomit]

Just for curiosity do any of the companions ever make a statement that they may not be open to SGR? I have not seen any thing along those lines.

To say that "you" don't see how they might be into my character of the same gender is really just "you're" perspective isn't it?

Why do we keep saying that they are straight? That is not really the case. it is more that they are not allowed to experience any thing else which is sad.

 

Fine, so make some of them straight out gay =)

Imo, it's more interesting that way than to have players "change" them they way they want. Like in the real world.

[Elblai]

If they had an individual choice you'd be out of luck by statistics. If 1-6% of surveyed groups of people claimed to be bi/gay, the chance of your limited number of companions being oriented as such would be nil.

I never asked for it to be made that realistic. Nor do I believe that the bi/gay population is as low as that claim. I merely said I don't think it should be ALL.

 

Worse, if they made this possible for some companions and not others then you'd see all sorts of complaints from both sides on 'why isn't X straight'?!?, or 'why isn't Y gay'?!? After all the storyline is for your eyes only, so giving you the option to choose for every romance-capable companion makes it much easier on everyone.

You mean, there would be people crying about a developer making a decision about their own characters?! My goodness!

There will always be crying about any decision any MMO developer makes. Ever. I'm not worried about that. The question shouldn't be "Will people cry if this person isn't bi/gay/lesbian?" it should be "Does it make SENSE for this person's personality to be bi/gay/lesbian?"

 

It has to be a blanket toggle for all characters you can romance. Nothing else needs to change. The conversations and voice overs don't need to change. Nothing special needs to be done except for making the romance options open to all characters, regardless of gender. That's the easiest fix, and it can include all previous content or just new content.

This is one possible outcome. It may even be the easiest. I disagree that it would be the best.

 

Do you have any kind of reliable source to back this up?

I did, will post it when I dig it up once more.

 

To whom? By what standard? I see a lot of people demanding this, that or the other in-game be addressed, and they are issues I don't care about one way or another. Your yardstick of importance is not a universal measure.

To BioWare, by standard of their statements and actions. As self-righteous as you'd like to sound, I don't care much what content gets added next. So long as they keep things fun, I'm cool. I'm with you guys, SGA's are needed. My only disagreement is that EVERY companion should be SGA-able.

 

Huh? So your entire opinion of the character is wrapped up in their sexuality?

I did not say this, nor imply it. I merely stated that it is a PART of their personality, and therefore there should be variations. No two personalities are alike, after all.

 

If they add same gender romance options the current companions "personality" doesn't change at all, they won't start using different lines of dialogue or reacting to your LS/DS choices any differently, the character is still the exact same character.

I disagree. Doc is a good example, whom often talks about the women he gets the attention of. This is part of his personality. He doesn't talk about all the people he's slept with, or all the guys... No, it's women. For this lack of modesty on his part, I've never seen him as bisexual. He makes it clear he's only interested in females. That would have to change.

 

Other characters, like I said in my previous post, I can totally see going that direction. I get it. No arguments.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Elblai

[stuffystuffs]

Fine, so make some of them straight out gay =)

Imo, it's more interesting that way than to have players "change" them they way they want. Like in the real world.

 

Oh yeah, these romances work just like in the real world.

 

 

I did not say this, nor imply it. I merely stated that it is a PART of their personality, and therefore there should be variations. No two personalities are alike, after all.

 

So, given that all the companions are now 'heterosexual' is there a part of their personality that's consistent across all of them? If so, what is it? Can you please provide in-game examples illustrating this.

Edited February 3, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[Zandilar]

Fine, so make some of them straight out gay =)

Imo, it's more interesting that way than to have players "change" them they way they want. Like in the real world.

 

In an ideal world, with an ideal computer RPG, made by an ideal company (and lets face it, Bioware does come close), with infinite resources, that would be possible.

 

 

The rest of this post isn't specifically addressing you, Mechavomit, I just want to put all my thoughts into one post, rather than multiple sequential posts.

 

On Kaliyo - devil's adovcate time here.

Apparently, she talks about hooking up with a girl, then leaving her crying. Has anyone thought that she did this for the lols, and not from any actual attachment/attraction for/to the girl? She is that sort of character, after all.

 

 

On Kira - I'm curious as to why people see her as potentially bisexual.

 

On Elara and conservatives in general - because, of course, people from conservative backgrounds can't be a-ok with being gay. (All generalizations are wrong, folks!)

 

On Hunter -

 

I never even entertained the idea of flirting with him, because he was an arrogant [redacted profanity], and because Jan'neria wouldn't ever flirt with a man anyway. No hint has been given of his/her true gender thus far in the story I've seen.

 

 

I just got spoiled BIG TIME, THANKS GUYS!! (Yes, I know the thread is in the spoiler forum, but it's not a particularly spoilery thread, and that was a HUGE spoiler for IA players. The original poster who brought it up put it behind a spoiler toggle, would have been nice if everyone else following took the hint.)

 

ETA: oh, we're not in the spoiler forums... So that just makes this even worse.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Zandilar

[Rayla_Felana]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2494114#post2494

We should all take a look at this.

 

What better a way to get our voices heard?

Edited February 3, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Elblai]

So, given that all the companions are now 'heterosexual' is there a part of their personality that's consistent across all of them? If so, what is it? Can you please provide in-game examples illustrating this.

Yup, there is a part of their personality that is consistent across all of them: They're heterosexual.

 

Doesn't make sense for every single one to be heterosexual any more than it makes sense for every single one to be bisexual.

 

On Kira - I'm curious as to why people see her as potentially bisexual.

For me, it's the fact that she is naturally flirtatious and doesn't seem to dismiss the possibility. Other characters have made their interests more clear, but she seems to leave the door open.

 

Am I reading too much into that? Maybe. But that's where I got it.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Elblai

[Uluain]

But exactly that will make people to see it. Me, for example. I don't want to see a [Flirt] on my character if he's talking to a guy. Yes, I know, I can ignore it, but it's still there, and I know that will annoy a lot of people.

In this case a "sexual orientation" option on the creation screen is the least bad of all the options.

I literally CANNOT play a male smuggler without having to see multiple opposite-sex [Flirt] options at nearly every stage of his class story missions. At some stages, it is not possible to opt out of the [Flirt] without incurring an in-game penalty in terms of primary companion affection.

 

We see it. We can't not see it. We put up with it. You can, too.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Uluain

[Cythereal]

On Hunter -

 

I never even entertained the idea of flirting with him, because he was an arrogant [redacted profanity], and because Jan'neria wouldn't ever flirt with a man anyway. No hint has been given of his/her true gender thus far in the story I've seen.

 

I never flirted with him, either. I still had the dialogue at the end that I mentioned.

[Kioma]

On Kira - I'm curious as to why people see her as potentially bisexual.

 

<shrugs> She could be. No reason not. Not everyone wears their sexuality on their sleeves. I've known many people you'd swear were straight and they most certainly weren't. One delighted in disproving the concept of a 'gaydar'. Another is actually a relative of mine. Married his wife, loves her dearly, had two kids but considers himself entirely gay ('love' and 'attraction' aren't the same thing).

 

So yes, Kira could be bi. She's never indicated to me, in any of the dialogue I've seen from her, that she might not be - and even if she had said as much what people say and what they do - or are - can be two different things. She could be straight or lesbian, too (though considering current in-game relationship options that's not likely). She could actually not have decided about herself, and is taking comfort from the Jedi Code and hoping that she actually won't have to decide.

 

On Elara and conservatives in general - because, of course, people from conservative backgrounds can't be a-ok with being gay. (All generalizations are wrong, folks!)

 

Some conservatives ARE gay. Takes all types to move a world.

 

On a different note...

 

The concept of non-straight options 'not fitting' the Star Wars universe is, to me, wilful narrow-mindedness. Anything can be made to look silly or inappropriate if it's phrased the right way. Personally I've never seen anything in the Star Wars universe anywhere that explicitly states, or even really vaguely implies, that same-sex relationships 'don't fit'.

 

I haven't personally seen any examples of same-sex relationships in the Star Wars universe either (ignoring, for the sake of argument, this MMO), but I've never personally seen a tapir either, nor an atom, nor a shemale flamenco dancer. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I've never seen a Star Wars universe tale follow the story of an overworked balding accountant on Coruscant with a bladder issue and bad breath - but that's not to say there aren't any, or that the inclusion of such a character would be 'inappropriate' or 'wrong' or 'wouldn't fit'.

 

So what I assume proponents of that view actually MEAN to say is that they don't think it's appropriate - presumably for reasons of their own. Which I assume have to do with their sexual preferences. Which means they're trying to impose their sexual preferences on us. Which is exactly what many anti-LGBT folk are claiming we're doing by wanting same-sex options.

 

Yay, hypocrisy.

[Rayla_Felana]

I haven't personally seen any examples of same-sex relationships in the Star Wars universe either (ignoring, for the sake of argument, this MMO).

 

There are definitely S/S romances in star wars lore, just not many of them.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Kioma]

There are definitely S/S romances in star wars lore, just not many of them.

 

Would you mind giving an example or two? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just unfamiliar with a lot of the novel content and I'm curious.

[MoogleNut]

Just popping in to say I've added my voice to the Dev Q & A thread, here's hoping we get somewhere soon

[Nozybidaj]

Yup, there is a part of their personality that is consistent across all of them: They're heterosexual.

 

Says who? Do they have it stamped on their forehead? Just because game mechanics haven't been implemented yet doesn't mean that sets a precedent for the existing companions. /sigh

 

In the end it is only your personal assumption that they are heterosexual. There is no in game reference at all for any of the companions that denotes an existing preference.

[Rayla_Felana]

Would you mind giving an example or two? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just unfamiliar with a lot of the novel content and I'm curious.

 

Juhani and female Revan, Visas Marr and female Exile, the two Mandalorian men I won't bother pronouncing the name of, and a few other more subtle ones that don't stand out as much.

 

It's important to note that in Star Wars Lore, no differentiation is made between Genders, not at all has there ever been a difference stated, only cross species romance has been noted as weird, and heavily frowned upon amongst the Sith.

[Kioma]

Just popping in to say I've added my voice to the Dev Q & A thread, here's hoping we get somewhere soon

 

Me too. There's a lot of good questions in that thread, too.

[Nozybidaj]

Just popping in to say I've added my voice to the Dev Q & A thread, here's hoping we get somewhere soon

 

Same here.

 

- When will the missing Same Gender Romances options be added into the game?

- Will current romance options be allowed to finally have same gender romance options or will we have to wait for new companions to be added?

- When will same gender non-romance/companion flirts be added to the game?

 

The answers to those questions are all I need to know whether I should continue with a subscription or not.

[MoogleNut]

Says who? Do they have it stamped on their forehead? Just because game mechanics haven't been implemented yet doesn't mean that sets a precedent for the existing companions. /sigh

 

In the end it is only your personal assumption that they are heterosexual. There is no in game reference at all for any of the companions that denotes an existing preference.

 

It always makes me laugh - not in a good way either - when people try to say an existing character showing an interest in the same gender somehow changes their entire personality.

 

Or that it somehow becomes a 'retcon' that they might be interested - as if every single minutia of a character's phsyche is shown to the player. If that was the case, then everything they do or say in a future expansion must then be some sort of retcon since nothing was ever mention before-hand.

 

Pro-tip to those that think this - just becasue you see some-one drinking coffee whenever you're together, doesn't mean they ONLY like coffee.

[Mechavomit]

but that's not to say there aren't any, or that the inclusion of such a character would be 'inappropriate' or 'wrong' or 'wouldn't fit'.

Wouldn't fit =)

Wouldn't be "heroic" =))

 

The answers to those questions are all I need to know whether I should continue with a subscription or not

...really?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Mechavomit

[Kioma]

Juhani and female Revan, Visas Marr and female Exile, the two Mandalorian men I won't bother pronouncing the name of, and a few other more subtle ones that don't stand out as much.

 

Hmm. Those are game examples, right? I never played the KOTOR games but I gather they're from those games. Not sure who the two Mandalorian men come from.

 

My only concern is that there are several 'levels' of Star Wars canon and many detractors will very readily say 'the computer games don't count'; I wonder if there are any examples in the novels.

 

It's important to note that in Star Wars Lore, no differentiation is made between Genders, not at all has there ever been a difference stated, only cross species romance has been noted as weird, and heavily frowned upon amongst the Sith.

 

Which is amusing since the 'Dark Jedi' that discovered them went to all the effort of using Sith Alchemy to breed with the original Sith species, from what I understand.

[Kioma]

Wouldn't fit =)

Wouldn't be "heroic" =))

 

You've given no reasons and seem only out to incite a reaction, so I think I'll feel comfortable in disregarding your opinion.

[Uluain]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2494114#post2494

We should all take a look at this.

 

What better a way to get our voices heard?

Yes, indeed.

 

Please keep questions brief, clear and polite. But do post - it cannot hurt if multiple players express their concerns.

 

Also, for a considerate look at what all goes into implementing content, this thread gives the issue some perspective. While I do feel we are overdue for more information, it is a good reminder to try to be patient for content.