Seyyal Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Many of my abilities cause me to get defensive procs to use them, and using them keeps my defenses up. For example, I can't use retaliation with a def proc, without using constant retaliate, my defenses are down 6% compared to what they could be. Many of my talents have been spent solely on forms of damage reduction that are worthless vs internal and elemental. It is your job to die first, remember that. That's a tank's life. First to fight, first to die. again, you raise points that have nothing to do with the conversation. As i said, if im not supposed to block this stuff then fine, but dont make my pvp set shield/absord/and accuracy. and dont make me waste talent points on shields. you are talking about defense procs not shield procs. i dont think you even know how mitigation works in this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontDenyRy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Is this about tanks... in PvP?! Who rolls a tank to PvP? Moreover, who plays an RPG to PvP? If I want to compare my gear to someone else, I'll go shopping. Grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycholex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Fully Champion geared, Tank spec Sith juggernaut.. survivability.. good damage.. good Overall pvp effectiveness.. good I have no issues, your CD's still help, you still have that tank advantage of high endurance and CD's to bolster it,.. I suggest people learn to play their class.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Grow up! What? They're fair points. Tanking is for PvE. Who cares about tanks in PvP? Is there aggro in PvP? It's absurd. Go play Team Fortress 2 if you want to PvP with gear. RPGs are terrible for PvP. They're too complex, which leads to too many balance issues you can never fully correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhosis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Another the game is broken because I got beat at PVP again post... Is anyone else out there tired of the PVP crowd ruining your PVE experience so they can win a PVP match. I know I'm so sick of all the PVP crying that I could chunk my computer off a cliff. This is onviously a PVE game to the extreme... The PVP is ok but clearly not what this game is all about. Sorry to break it to you. If you want WOW/balanced PVP there's tons of games out there already emulating WOW's model and Esport goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 again, you raise points that have nothing to do with the conversation. As i said, if im not supposed to block this stuff then fine, but dont make my pvp set shield/absord/and accuracy. and dont make me waste talent points on shields. you are talking about defense procs not shield procs. i dont think you even know how mitigation works in this game A shield is a defensive proc. Deflects, shields, dodges etc are all defensive procs. A deflect and dodge are an evasion. A shield proc is enhanced damage reduction vs a single blockable attack. These things cannot work on many types of abilities, some that are listed as 'cannot be blocked, deflected or dodged' and some that are spells. Your mitigation is worthless vs spells that cause elemental damage (unless it's an attack that can be defended that applies elemental damage) and is worthless against bleeds (but not against the attack that applies those bleeds). I know quite well how tanks work in PvP considering I've played tanks almost exclusively for the last decade in MMOs and what I just described is pretty standard for how tanks work in PvP in most MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seyyal Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Fully Champion geared, Tank spec Sith juggernaut.. survivability.. good damage.. good Overall pvp effectiveness.. good I have no issues, your CD's still help, you still have that tank advantage of high endurance and CD's to bolster it,.. I suggest people learn to play their class.. i suggest you stop thinking that since your class is fine that every other tank spec/class is fine. Shieldtechs entire talent tree is based on shields (youres isnt) our pvp itemization is entirely based on shields (youres isnt). now if we arent meant to tank elemental/force/tech/internal then fine. but our whole tank spec needs to be reworked then. as well as all our gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycholex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The Tanking skills such as taunt do have their advantages in PVP aswell as PVE, for example although you can't pull someones agro, taunt does reduce the damage on all players other than the one who used the taunt upon them. So in a sense yes, tanks do have a place in PVP.. if people learn how to play them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontDenyRy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Fully Champion geared, Tank spec Sith juggernaut.. survivability.. good damage.. good Overall pvp effectiveness.. good I have no issues, your CD's still help, you still have that tank advantage of high endurance and CD's to bolster it,.. I suggest people learn to play their class.. I suggest you learn to look at other classes other than your own, I'm not going to go into information which has been covered by others in this thread, which you obviously ignored on your march to give us this riveting piece of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycholex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i suggest you stop thinking that since your class is fine that every other tank spec/class is fine. Shieldtechs entire talent tree is based on shields (youres isnt) our pvp itemization is entirely based on shields (youres isnt). now if we arent meant to tank elemental/force/tech/internal then fine. but our whole tank spec needs to be reworked then. as well as all our gear. I've seen plenty of Shield/powertechs who seem to have no issue surviving and 'tanking' in PVP, stop looking for a fault in the class to compensate for your own failures in PVP, if you can't do it, don't do it.. stop making excuses and MOVE ON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If you want WOW/balanced PVP... Er... what? WoW PvP has never been balanced and it never will be. It's too complex. It's why RPGs are terrible choices for competitive gaming. The only real competition in an MMORPG is "Who has the best gear on the flavor of the month class." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranha Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 The Tanking skills such as taunt do have their advantages in PVP aswell as PVE, for example although you can't pull someones agro, taunt does reduce the damage on all players other than the one who used the taunt upon them. So in a sense yes, tanks do have a place in PVP.. if people learn how to play them The biggest issue is that our Tank skills are available on our DPS speccs aswell but what most of us did is that we picked Tanks as the role we wanted yet we cannot tank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeblesTV Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 90% of internal damage effects can be cleansed. Use teamwork, get a healer that doesn't suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranha Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) post updated with damage info! Edited January 17, 2012 by aranha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The biggest issue is that our Tank skills are available on our DPS speccs aswell but what most of us did is that we picked Tanks as the role we wanted yet we cannot tank! Speak for yourself, many of us are tanking in PvP just fine as pure tanking specs in tank gear. And Juggernaut tank gear is covered in just as much shield and absorb as everyone elses tank gear. We're no less shield reliant than Vans/PTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaPhone Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It is a serious issue. If people play organized games, or in open world pvp, you can have sorcerer team up against tanks to completely obliterate them. Of course in a one on one encounter it should be more balanced... but thats the issue with pvp scenarios. Its not about 1vs1, and its barely about coordination for the most part. So having said that, in a less coordinated team, a group of casters have it easy. Tanks do little dmg, but are suppose to be able to cc. If the resolve bar is not good enough to keep us going, and unleash does not help, then us having cc that we cant use is moot. As tanks we should be able to reach our target, and be able to use our cc. I can understand the calculations for multi vs 1 unfairness. But once you make a tank useless in a game, you basically ruin classes. Of course other classes would be tanks, or better tanks. Bet lets say all classes were squishy and the only tank was a SW/trooper build. If all were squishy, the tactics would be different. It would be surprise tactics and not confrontational at all. Also for Hutt ball. There needs to be a way to make it more easy to take down the opponent with the ball. I have seen people just walk to the goal line with groups beating on one person. It seems sometimes the tank is too tanky, or other classes are too tanky, and then all of a suddem sometimes are not. I would like things to be more predictable and also things to fit their roles. A tank does little dmg but he does cc, and he guards. If a tank cant do that, then you have a game that has an abandoned one of its classes for pvp, and possibly other environments as well. Edited January 17, 2012 by VegaPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycholex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The biggest issue is that our Tank skills are available on our DPS speccs aswell but what most of us did is that we picked Tanks as the role we wanted yet we cannot tank! You just don't get it, There is no TANKING in PVP, that is the point, you have increases survivability as one, but your still susceptible, that's why it's called class balancing. I have seen every class manage to survive, deal ridiculous damage and do what they need to do. Use your CD's yes they do help, use your shields, use your taunts, but don't for one second think your class is broken just because you don't survive. IT works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The tank spec works just fine in PvP, I play, again, as an IMMORTAL JUGGERNAUT. I wear all tank gear while I'm gearing for PvP, and I do fine. I throw guard on a squishy and support them as best I can. At the end of the game I have massive tokens and credits due to how many protection points I rack up. Your tank spec is viable, just ensure you're doing what you're supposed to do, soaking damage for someone else. All you are doing is gimping your DPS by doing so! Shield,Absord,Defense are 100% non effective in PVP, If you spec one of the DPS trees you still have the tank stance and use of guard and have the same survivability except a lot more DPS plus if you do i think its vengance tree you get no cost smash wich come in handy in WF's while in tanking mode guarding a healer and you pretty much get an interupt at will on doors or turrents.. outside of the CD Edited January 17, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashedhardrive Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Tanks are already kinda a pain to kill in pvp. They don't need any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycholex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Speak for yourself, many of us are tanking in PvP just fine as pure tanking specs in tank gear. And Juggernaut tank gear is covered in just as much shield and absorb as everyone elses tank gear. We're no less shield reliant than Vans/PTs. +1 Sabre Ward CD = Shield Shield Generator = Reliant on Shield rating / Absorption Relics = Bolster Shield Rating we are just as reliant on these stats and skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycholex Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 All you are doing is gimping your DPS by doing so! Shield,Absord,Defense are 100% non effective in PVP, If you spec one of the DPS trees you still have the tank stance and use of guard and have the same survivability except a lot more DPS plus if you do i think its vengance tree you get no cost smash wich come in handy in WF's while in tanking mode guarding a healer and you get an interupt at will on doors or turrents.. outside of the CD They are effective, Expertise does reduce these stats but they are still effective in many situations, I am full Immortal spec and do plenty of DPS Usually ending a WZ in excess of 10 Medals including 75k / 300k damage, 5k single hits and massive protection counts, I have no issues fulfilling my pvp roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannomite Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You just don't get it, There is no TANKING in PVP, that is the point, you have increases survivability as one, but your still susceptible, that's why it's called class balancing. Actually there is. The tank's job is to be general pain in the butt to people trying to nuke down the group's healer. Taunt and guard then pop your defensive cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 All you are doing is gimping your DPS by doing so! Shield,Absord,Defense are 100% non effective in PVP, If you spec one of the DPS trees you still have the tank stance and use of guard and have the same survivability except a lot more DPS plus if you do i think its vengance tree you get no cost smash wich come in handy in WF's while in tanking mode guarding a healer and you pretty much get an interupt at will on doors or turrents.. outside of the CD I'm a tank! My DPS doesn't matter! It's not my job to kill people, it's my job to harass people trying to kill my squishies. I'm constantly switching targets, CCing people, pushing them away from my healers and ranged. If you're playing a tank and trying to drop people, you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranha Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 You just don't get it, There is no TANKING in PVP, that is the point, you have increases survivability as one, but your still susceptible, that's why it's called class balancing. I have seen every class manage to survive, deal ridiculous damage and do what they need to do. Use your CD's yes they do help, use your shields, use your taunts, but don't for one second think your class is broken just because you don't survive. IT works. Well our taunts dont protect us, just others. Our guard protects other but not us! Our 2-3 minute cooldown 3-10 secondish protection buffs are wasted vs good pvpers due to lockdowns or just slows. We have great tools for protecting other but not ourselfs. The key is to kill the tank to reduce the teams survivability and most classes do it way too easy as we cannot protect ourselfs. Were not tanks we are supports aslong as we cannot gear to be such! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seyyal Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 90% of internal damage effects can be cleansed. Use teamwork, get a healer that doesn't suck. again not the point. im going to say this one more time. i understand that typically in all MMO's magic dmg isnt tankable, I am not complaining about survivability. I am not complaining about losing pvp matches. guard and taunt have ZERO to do with this. I am complaining about our PVP gear being itemized for useless stats, I am complaining about our talent tree wasting 80% of its points on things that rarely trigger. From the begining they have told us they set out to make all specs pvp viable. and the guard and taunt mechanics for the most part do just that. however, why would i stick with my pve tank spec in PVP when 80% of the talent points dont help me in pvp at all. why would i want a pvp gear set that has shield/accuracy when neither of these matter to my spec AT ALL. furthermore crits arenot mitigated by shields either. shields are usefull against ranged and melee only if they dont crit. now i know when i open my ability panel i have exactly 3 skills that are melee or ranged (default attack, unload, one other that escapes me at work) everything else is tech, rocket punch is not melee its tech and on and on. take a look at what youre abilities really are sometime you will be surprised. ok, i am done with this thread for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts