Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[SkySavage]

... you are not OWED anything by the game or the developers.

 

I beg to differ. Until I am not paying $15 a month I am owed a good time. Playing DCU Online and not paying anything... THERE no one owes me anything. Here... yes they do. Bioware knows it and they do work for it. It's one of the things that will make this game do well.

[Touchbass]

I beg to differ. Until I am not paying $15 a month I am owed a good time. Playing DCU Online and not paying anything... THERE no one owes me anything. Here... yes they do. Bioware knows it and they do work for it. It's one of the things that will make this game do well.

 

 

+1, Bioware owes me a good playing experience or they don't get my money. It's as simple as that. It seems to me as SavagePotato really is alone with his thoughts

Edited January 18, 2012 by Touchbass

[savagepotato]

My observations? People are claiming the entire game doesn't need a LFD when certain servers/factions are desolate. That is a fact.

 

People try and propose that LFD destroyed the community, I present the fact that it didn't. Many more people came back to WoW for the LFD feature then those who left it, that is the only FACT that can be objectively looked at. Your proposals of otherwise are just conjecture.

 

The problem is I keep stating evidence that you just ignore, I really can't do more with you if you won't adhere to basic principles of logic. Hell you'd rather see the game burn then help your felllow players

 

EDIT: Can you give many ANY evidence that the LFD feature is a bad overall idea?

 

This is why there is no point talking to you.

 

I want you to re-read what you just said and try to understand why it is the most condescending and dismissive piece of trash I've seen in some time.

 

You have been given the evidence that the lfd feature is a bad idea again and again and again and again. You choose to ignore it or marginalize it. Simple as that. There are multiple threads going where this has been discussed very clearly, and the anti-lfd stance get's just blatantly ignored and marginalized again and again with your made up "facts".

 

I am not going to go over it again. It has been stated a million times, and all that will happen as it has happened before, is you will say "nope invalid, I win".

 

You have your opinion that is ALL, you have no more actual evidence than the anti-lfd position.

[savagepotato]

+1, Bioware owes me a good playing experience or they don't get my money. It's as simple as that. It seems to me as SavagePotato really is alone with his thoughts

 

Yes...

 

I am alone in my thoughts.

 

That is why there are MULTIPLE threads DOZENS of pages long, because I am alone in my thoughts and EVERYONE on the forum is behind you.

 

That is why there was a recent forum wide poll done that prioritized a cross server LFD tool as very low.

 

Stop your grandstanding. The most insulting thing about you is the fact you pretend you are trying to have a discussion or that you are logical. You are in fact just a very wordy troll.

 

At least the trolls that keep it short don't take up space with long winded walls of text.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Poisonsenvy]

Look guys its 2012 LFD is expected on launch lets not go backwards please. I know you fanboys want that old 2007 wow just came out nostalgic experience but playing a bare bones game that seems like it was meant for a 2007 release isn't going to do that. There is absolutely no negative aspects of having a LFD tool. At the end of the day if you don't like them just don't use it and spam if you feel you have better group experiences spamming. For the rest of us (the majority) LFD tool is mandatory. Let me give you my personal experience. I'm on cosair every time I log in my server its never lower than "Heavy" (Although I think BW is intentionally falsely misrepresenting these #'s) but on the average it takes me at least 45 minutes to find a FP group. Some days are better maybe 15-20 min some days I have shouted for and hour +. This takes so much enjoyment out the game for me to the point where I honestly have given up on doing FP's all together. This is sad for a game not even a month old. LFD is only a positive tool for the community. Edited January 18, 2012 by Poisonsenvy

[Touchbass]

Yes...

 

I am alone in my thoughts.

 

That is why there are MULTIPLE threads DOZENS of pages long, because I am alone in my thoughts and EVERYONE on the forum is behind you.

 

Stop your grandstanding. The most insulting thing about you is the fact you pretend you are trying to have a discussion or that you are logical. You are in fact just a very wordy troll.

 

At least the trolls that keep it short don't take up space with long winded walls of text.

 

Can you link me to any thread where the majority of people share your view point instead of the minority? If you think i am so stupid why do you keep talking to me then? My Grandstanding, lol wut? Are you just jealous that people take me more seriously then you and that upsets you cause you think i am stupid and that you can never be wrong?

Edited January 18, 2012 by Touchbass

[Lankybrit]

I wholeheartedly believe that LFD did more good for WoW than it did bad. Yes, it bred a certain lack of repercussions for actions, but it did provide for a wealth of benefits for the community as a whole.

 

On a personal level, I'm am yet to do a single Flashpoint. With an LFD, I would love to try some out.

 

Cheers.

[savagepotato]

Can you link me to any thread where the majority of people share your view point instead of the minority? I'm having a very civil conversation and enjoyable on the matter, if you don't like talking to me, simply talk to your in-game friends and don't bother me then.

 

First of all, the primary reason there are as many threads on this as there are is because there is no forum search feature. I have no way to efficiently find any threads to link and you know this.

 

Second, no you are not having a civil discussion you are trying to win the conversation. Your tone is extremely condescending and belittling to anyone who's opinion differs from your own. Furthermore you treat your own opinion as fact while utterly denouncing that of others.

 

Third, I don't know which threads you have been reading, but I've read a lot of them and the general tone I have got in them has been a lot of resistance to a cross server tool. There are plenty of suggestions and even at least one very well envisioned concept of a IN server tool, which I do not have an issue with.

 

This has been strongly supported by the recent off site survey held on this forum that prioritized a cross server LFD tool extremely low in priority at this time. It has also been supported directly by the developer who has answered that a cross server tool is out of the realm of possibility in the immediate sense, and NOT what they feel is right for the game.

 

And yet you hammer away with thread after thread by the same vocal minority(yes you are a minority, survey data supports this).

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[Malminos]

Just another vote for the LFG - dungeon finder system.

 

I've been playing MMOs since i had my swordsman/anatomy warrior in Ultima Online, played plenty of WoW, plenty of EQ1, and the dungeon finder is much needed. Someone and many others have already mentioned it, it allows me to quest while waiting for a group, and makes it so i dont have to waste time wading through trolls trying to find a decent group which can sometimes take an hour +. Each time it takes me that long to find a group, i'm 1 step closer to quitting.

 

This game needs a dungeon finder. All of the old men who are set in their ways and scared to death of change can crawl back in their cave and return to 1995. it's 2012 and just about every MMO of this type really ought to have a Dungeon Finder.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Malminos

[BlueSkittles]

This is why there is no point talking to you.

 

I want you to re-read what you just said and try to understand why it is the most condescending and dismissive piece of trash I've seen in some time.

 

You have been given the evidence that the lfd feature is a bad idea again and again and again and again. You choose to ignore it or marginalize it. Simple as that. There are multiple threads going where this has been discussed very clearly, and the anti-lfd stance get's just blatantly ignored and marginalized again and again with your made up "facts".

 

I am not going to go over it again. It has been stated a million times, and all that will happen as it has happened before, is you will say "nope invalid, I win".

 

You have your opinion that is ALL, you have no more actual evidence than the anti-lfd position.

 

I understand why LFG may kill your vision of community, and I'm sorry if that is the case. But here are some facts from WoW (and I use World of Warcraft because I personally love their LFD system and it is the most popular MMO).

 

Subscriber numbers did NOT go down after LFD was introduced at the end of 2009 (though they had plateaued):

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/02/world-of-warcraft-no-growth-since-2008/

 

And just as a refresher, here is a history of the whole LFG/LFD fiasco from WoW. Which it appears you want to force ALL players of SWTOR to have to go through to prove you right:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dungeon_Finder#History

Edited January 18, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Touchbass]

First of all, the primary reason there are as many threads on this as there are is because there is no forum search feature. I have no way to efficiently find any threads to link and you know this.

 

Second, no you are not having a civil discussion you are trying to win the conversation. Your tone is extremely condescending and belittling to anyone who's opinion differs from your own. Furthermore you treat your own opinion as fact while utterly denouncing that of others.

 

Third, I don't know which threads you have been reading, but I've read a lot of them and the general tone I have got in them has been a lot of resistance to a cross server tool. There are plenty of suggestions and even at least one very well envisioned concept of a IN server tool, which I do not have an issue with.

 

This has been strongly supported by the recent off site survey held on this forum that prioritized a cross server LFD tool extremely low in priority at this time.

 

If you honestly made an effort to talk to me or read the majority of my posts within these threads that we both frequent you'd know two things about me, number is I'm a huge supporter of the LFD and what it can for an MMORPG and secondly that I would be ok with an in server tool that works efficiently.

 

Even on my busy server it's a chore finding groups, I still put up with it but there is so much room for fixing the internal tool that I'd be happy if they did that only. The only reason I want a LFD tool is because I feel sorry for those sobs who are stuck on a crappy server/faction, I've been there and I don't wish that upon anyone ever again.

 

I want you to go back and read all your posts, you are the one is rude and tough to deal with, it's why you don't get a lot of responses.

[Ganelon]

Yes...

 

I am alone in my thoughts.

 

That is why there are MULTIPLE threads DOZENS of pages long, because I am alone in my thoughts and EVERYONE on the forum is behind you.

 

That is why there was a recent forum wide poll done that prioritized a cross server LFD tool as very low.

 

Shouldn't you playing WoW if the majority opinion is so important to you?

[Touchbass]

 

And yet you hammer away with thread after thread by the same vocal minority(yes you are a minority, survey data supports this).

 

Using online servers to decipher data is a terrible idea, it's called "convenience sampling" and has many other names, it's essentially junk science. I took upper level economics and business so I'm not going into this any further with you. If you accept those surveys then you have to accept the amount of people posting both pro LFD both server and x-server in this thread. You will lose that argument so fast as the majority of this thread is pro internal server at minimal with an increasing surge of X-server. Point and match baby!

Edited January 18, 2012 by Touchbass

[savagepotato]

If you honestly made an effort to talk to me or read the majority of my posts within these threads that we both frequent you'd know two things about me, number is I'm a huge supporter of the LFD and what it can for an MMORPG and secondly that I would be ok with an in server tool that works efficiently.

 

Even on my busy server it's a chore finding groups, I still put up with it but there is so much room for fixing the internal tool that I'd be happy if they did that only. The only reason I want a LFD tool is because I feel sorry for those sobs who are stuck on a crappy server/faction, I've been there and I don't wish that upon anyone ever again.

 

I want you to go back and read all your posts, you are the one is rude and tough to deal with, it's why you don't get a lot of responses.

 

The tool as a solution to a low population server is not an effective solution to me.

 

I played on a low population server in WoW, all the cross server tool provided was a way to get into really unpleasant groups fast. At the end of the day when it was time to raid, options were limited to non existent as the raid population was already partitioned into their camps and offered very limited and specific social experiences. It did nothing to provide me with a more social game at all.

 

I would rather see a real solution to low population realms. Technology such as that which is used in EVE online is far more interesting to me in terms of having one big world. It simply hasn't ever been made feasible in this kind of MMO. At worst simple server merges or transfer incentives.

 

There isn't even a POINT in arguing it since Bioware has already stated they are working on enhanced IN server tool functionality at this time.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[DarthKhaos]

Can we not do this without childish remarks? Because you don't agree me does not mean something is wrong with me and vice versa goes for you mate.

 

Now to the topic off hand, the premise is flawed. If everyone who was appropriate level labeled themselves as either a tank/healer or dps they'd be an astronomical amount of players that are DPS. So say 10 tanks, 45 dps and 15 healers as random numbers. A maximum of 10 groups can be filled that leaves 15 dps out in the cold with 5 healers. Your system does nothing for those who are left out. The majority of them just plainly give up waiting and do something else. How would your system serve them? Should we just forget about them? Am I missing something as you charge, i'm willing to listen if there is a way to ensure everybody gets a slice of the pie

And an automated system would?

If the ratio of Tanks : Healers : DPS is 1:2:5 no LFG system will give em all groups same time. SOMEONE will have to wait.

Edited January 18, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[savagepotato]

Using online servers to decipher data is a terrible idea, it's called "convenience sampling" and has many other names, it's essentially junk science. I took upper level economics and business so I'm not going into this any further with you. If you accept those surveys then you have to accept the amount of people posting both pro LFD both server and x-server in this thread. You will lose that argument so fast as the majority of this thread is pro internal server at minimal with an increasing surge of X-server. Point and match baby!

 

Oh but yet you would have me take your example that the pro crowd is in the majority based on what? WoW's subscription numbers? that is hardly appropriate since WoW is an massive anomaly in the mmo industry as it is.

 

Then what? you are back to basing your opinion on how many people you see responding in the thread and your own perception. You are in no stronger a position. A position I refute based on my own observation that the majority are against cross server. Something you even admit since in your zeal to win it never even occurred to you that I was okay with an in server tool, yet place myself in the anti lfd camp because I am strongly against cross server.

 

I find it laughable that you don't see how condescending and bearing of a self inflated ego you come off having when you post things like the above.

 

Full of yourself much? no not you...

 

Just a little tip, that's why I have no interest in talking to you.

Edited January 18, 2012 by savagepotato

[ferroz]

But there is no discussion on the subject. The pro-lfd people only have one outcome, cross server lfd or nothing.

Untrue, there are a lot of people who are pro single server lfd.

 

I personally think a single server lfd can't work because

servers are too small

servers are too skewed toward imperials

 

So a single server one would be an utter failure for low level republic players, especially ones that play way off server peak usage (like my friend who works on the graveyard shift).

[ferroz]

Then what? you are back to basing your opinion on how many people you see responding in the thread and your own perception. You are in no stronger a position.

it's definitely a stronger position. It's a position based on rational statements, and facts rather than opinions. That, in and of itself, makes it a stronger position.

[ferroz]

You know your not at work your in your moms basement don't lie.Must be a important job to be trolling TOR forums picking arguments with people who want a method to play the game easier.Nobody would ever force you to use a dungeon finder if there was one man so why do you even care?Get back to work!

I'm at work.

 

I need something simple like the forums after digging around a dependency tracker trying to figure out why it's trying to pull in 2 versions of the same library.

 

I also get to post at work, gotta love the digital age Mr. Potato head

it's nice being a domain admin... Edited January 18, 2012 by ferroz

[Touchbass]

And an automated system would?

If the ratio of Tanks : Healers : DPS is 1:2:5 no LFG system will give em all groups same time. SOMEONE will have to wait.

 

Thank you for continuing to post with me DarthKhoas. For sake of argument we'll reference our conversation and any future as an internal tool. Yeah I know someone will have to wait, the problem is not the waiting it's the expectation of the wait. If I log on to an internal system and it says I have to 2 hours to wait cause no one is on, I can with live that. If I log and ask in a system where no one repeatidly respones over a period of time I feel like I'm waisting my time and can get annoyed.

 

If we were to do a internal tool, this is one feature I'd like to really see. Every instance is searchable through a drop down menu that gives a list of the persons role AND you can put yourself looking for an instance while not on the character. So many times I wouldn't mind waiting to do a high level group but I'd rather spend my time on alt leveling. What do you think?

[savagepotato]

Thank you for continuing to post with me DarthKhoas. For sake of argument we'll reference our conversation and any future as an internal tool. Yeah I know someone will have to wait, the problem is not the waiting it's the expectation of the wait. If I log on to an internal system and it says I have to 2 hours to wait cause no one is on, I can with live that. If I log and ask in a system where no one repeatidly respones over a period of time I feel like I'm waisting my time and can get annoyed.

 

If we were to do a internal tool, this is one feature I'd like to really see. Every instance is searchable through a drop down menu that gives a list of the persons role AND you can put yourself looking for an instance while not on the character. So many times I wouldn't mind waiting to do a high level group but I'd rather spend my time on alt leveling. What do you think?

 

You may be able to live with that wait. The impatient masses will not accept a 2 hour wait.

 

When cataclysm launched the queue time for DPS was 40 minutes on average. This was treated as an utter catastrophe and they burned down the forums until nerfs were put in place.

 

What makes you think for any reason it will be any different here. We are less than a month in and people are clamoring to make this game more like WoW at every turn. There is Zero cause to believe that they will stop complaining until Bioware caves and makes it EXACTLY like WoW.

[DarthKhaos]

Thank you for continuing to post with me DarthKhoas. For sake of argument we'll reference our conversation and any future as an internal tool. Yeah I know someone will have to wait, the problem is not the waiting it's the expectation of the wait. If I log on to an internal system and it says I have to 2 hours to wait cause no one is on, I can with live that. If I log and ask in a system where no one repeatidly respones over a period of time I feel like I'm waisting my time and can get annoyed.

 

If we were to do a internal tool, this is one feature I'd like to really see. Every instance is searchable through a drop down menu that gives a list of the persons role AND you can put yourself looking for an instance while not on the character. So many times I wouldn't mind waiting to do a high level group but I'd rather spend my time on alt leveling. What do you think?

 

Well I had to travel home from work.

 

Now if you recall what I said earlier was that the current system can use some improvement however it would not work if people don't use it. I am not opposed to a better LFG interface, never have been. I just believe an automated tool is unnecessary.

 

The current system, while crude will allow players to see the available tanks, healers, dps and groups for whatever flashpoint they are looking for no matter where they are in the game. The problem is people do not want to use it because it is not an hit a button go afk and wait for the dun dun dun sound when their queue is ready.

[RachelAnne]

You may be able to live with that wait. The impatient masses will not accept a 2 hour wait.

 

When cataclysm launched the queue time for DPS was 40 minutes on average. This was treated as an utter catastrophe and they burned down the forums until nerfs were put in place.

 

What makes you think for any reason it will be any different here. We are less than a month in and people are clamoring to make this game more like WoW at every turn. There is Zero cause to believe that they will stop complaining until Bioware caves and makes it EXACTLY like WoW.

 

The thing is, those that want an wow like game - are not going to play when the panda addon does see its release.

So why should BW actually listen to them, or make a game for them? They will play wow anyways, I would also play wow instead of TOR if I wanted to play an MMO which is like wow. Wow is a running game, that only has no content left for people.

 

As soon content is there, they will go back there - they dont care about SWTOR and its story or the whole Star wars universe, they were just bored.

 

BW is better off, if they make a different game - so that those who dont want to play an wow like MMO, have a place to stay and pay their sub.

[ferroz]

When cataclysm launched the queue time for DPS was 40 minutes on average. This was treated as an utter catastrophe and they burned down the forums until nerfs were put in place.

No, it was 30 minutes on average, 40 minuites at bad times, 25ish at good times.

 

I ran a LOT of pug dungeons at that point, and the 40 minute average that keeps getting quoted isn't an average... it was a "bad case" not an "average case" .

 

And that's only at max level... low level dungeon queues for dps during cata were <5 minutes on average. You had to be way off peak to wait longer than that.

 

What makes you think for any reason it will be any different here.

I'm personally fine with it being the same queue times here.

 

My leveling characters will have nigh instant queues; my main will have instant queues. Works for me.

 

 

We are less than a month in and people are clamoring to make this game more like WoW at every turn.

It's not their fault that wow has good, well polished features

 

There is Zero cause to believe that they will stop complaining until Bioware caves and makes it EXACTLY like WoW.

The fact that you've arguing using a very blatant slippery slope fallacy says that there is plenty of reason to believe that they'll stop complaining long before BW makes it exactly like wow.. Edited January 18, 2012 by ferroz

[Ellisande]

your needs and likes are not the same as others and insulting them for that only makes you look immature and selfish.

 

It's because he is.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Ellisande