Assassin Deception Spec significantly weaker per level than other classes?

[DarkLogrus]

The problem is Deception is based more on your ability to initiate a fight with a huge burst and then outlast the other guy. The problem is most fights has us in a 3-5 mob scuffle, in which you have to be at full health and force, locked on the target with the most health, or longest range for C.C and be able to quickly drop the rest before you or your companion die. On gold mob types fight were also at a disadvantage because the fights initiate right after a cut-scene or triggered object.

 

Khem early on was great, but shortly seemed to get outpaced by the mobs we faced, often times he was either near dead or dead, if it wasn't one of the two it didn't matter we were still low enough where I was constantly resting. The other companions was hard to say, because in focusing on 1 companions gear others would get way under geared.

 

It wasn't until Talos where I lost the headache of constant near deaths and even more constant rest times. The only time where I seem to run into a problem was during the dream walking quest line and I can up to a 47gold on my 43 Assassin (don't ask me lol).

 

Talos seems to be the companion of choice and his reliability is a lot better then the others. I still find myself CC 1 target and fighting the others, but Talos's heals and freeze along with my own c.c and interrupts, its not a cake walk, but nowhere near the stress of having the other companions out.

 

Things that hurt us from the PvE aspect is not having more range type atks and their distance, also having a smaller pull of effective AoE atks hurts us vs a game which seems to be strongly based around AoE encounters. I also think getting Talos late in the game was what hurt Assassins early on, across all specs.

 

Finally, for the love of god, please fix Maul,

[Bahamude]

I don't get this. I defeated Zash for example at lvl 29.. I do quest 2-3 lvls above mine. Ok, it can be hard.. But I never had any problems. I think its just a matter when to use your skills.

 

IMO the sin is good as it is.

 

Sounds like you're Darkness spec, not Deception spec which is what we're talking about.

[Cloryan]

I am not sure what your talking about ...

Im lvl 44 and on Voss doing the Rituals quest chain killing elite 47's. I tend to switch to dark charge for all elite fights not sure if your trying to stay in surge?

 

Other then that are you using your interrupts / defensive cool down to drop hots and such on you?

[LordbishopX]

I am not sure what your talking about ...

Im lvl 44 and on Voss doing the Rituals quest chain killing elite 47's. I tend to switch to dark charge for all elite fights not sure if your trying to stay in surge?

 

Other then that are you using your interrupts / defensive cool down to drop hots and such on you?

 

QFT its just once you realize how squishy we are in the big encounters as deception you sacrifice dps for survival period. Basically in surging charge mode you can't take the beating and Talos will be pressed to keep you alive switch to DC and a shield even full deception the fight will be a breeze still need to interrupt and blow cool downs but much easier and more forgiving of mistakes.

 

My tip if its going bad blow force cloak and sit out until all your cool downs are back and don't use channel the force to late normally blow it at about 60-70% health to late and your toast and remember to run out of anything displaying on the ground its bad real bad if you didn't cause it lol.

[Bahamude]

Low Slash is an extremely situational ability. Assuming I am fighting something that can be be incapacitated, I use it for one of two reasons:

 

1) Incapacitate my target to gain position for Maul, while Exploit Weakness is up with at least 2-3 seconds left on the buff.

 

2) Interrupt the cast of an ability that requires 2+ seconds to cast.

 

Additionally, if I can, I will let the incapacitate effect run as long as I can before using Maul, to allow myself to regain an extra tick or two of focus. On top of that, where possible, I like to use it as an interrupt while I have 5-6 seconds on the Exploit Weakness buff, burn time for extra focus, and then Maul. That's the optimal situation, however, and can require some setup to execute correctly.

 

Remember when using this ability that you always want to let it sit on the victim for as long as possible, most particularly when you have to use it as an interrupt. Unlike Jolt, our other interrupts do not prevent that ability from being cast again for a period of time, so burn whatever time you can to give you less time without interrupt coverage.

 

As far as Overload is concerned, I almost never use it. I Mind Trap in every possible situation, so the AoE tends to only get me killed when facing multiple targets. As well, between the delay and it being on the GCD mean the cast I wish to interrupt may get off before my knockback, wasting the effort entirely.

 

These are pretty much my keys to dealing with Elite and strong mobs in combat. While it works faily well, victory is never really assured with some of the tougher elites and I completely avoid solo fights with champions of my level (50 in all 126 gear). Trying to take on a champion is almost always a losing proposition, unless they are ranged and I have lots of obstacles for disrupting LoS.

 

As a last note, remember to turn off any companion attacks that apply DoT effects if you intend to use Low Slash at all. You companions will automatically stop attacking a victim of Low Slash, but their DoTs will still break the incap effect.

 

That's my 2p, hope it helps.

 

 

Your insights definitely help a lot and I thank you for sharing them. What you've described meshes a lot with the strategies I've been using which is good since it means I don't appear to be missing anything too obvious. It also definitely seems to confirm the reality that as clothies, using the interrupts to stay alive is a must.

 

Does anyone know of the full breadth of changes if any Bioware has made to the Deception Spec the past couple of updates? I've noticed definitely that if I hold off on my interrupts until the silvers or golds start casting, I'm doing much better. But then again, Talos is still a huge life saver in general. I pretty much never go down if Talos is healing, but I know to keep aggro off of him at all costs.

[Bahamude]

I basically had the the same issue, I found that killing mobs with same level become more and more difficult. I have to go do some warzones to keep myself 3 levels ahead of the zone level.

 

Not to mention my class quest, I ended up either level higher and come back for it or just call my bounty hunter friend to help me on it.

 

I think as melee class who only got light armor, low survive abilities and few cc is really not the way to go.

 

Your experiences are unfortunately very typical for the Deception spec. It's safe to conclude based on this thread and many others that the Deception spec is not the spec of choice for many Assassins. And as Bioware tries to kill hybridizing specs, it will be interesting to see what becomes of Deception or if people will simply abandon it in favor of the Shadow spec that a majority of voices appear to agree is just much better in general.

[Bahamude]

I thought I would post this burst guide for Assassins I found on another thread. It has a hit rotation that is very informative for full blown Deception Assassins. I can definitely see what I've been missing.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=177739

 

Hope this helps people!

[Fairell]

Your insights definitely help a lot and I thank you for sharing them. What you've described meshes a lot with the strategies I've been using which is good since it means I don't appear to be missing anything too obvious. It also definitely seems to confirm the reality that as clothies, using the interrupts to stay alive is a must.

 

Does anyone know of the full breadth of changes if any Bioware has made to the Deception Spec the past couple of updates? I've noticed definitely that if I hold off on my interrupts until the silvers or golds start casting, I'm doing much better. But then again, Talos is still a huge life saver in general. I pretty much never go down if Talos is healing, but I know to keep aggro off of him at all costs.

 

 

leveled as deception, rank 62 now. no ilum grind, with a short trip to darkness spec.

 

ill try to combine pvp and pve.

 

the only problem for deception is survivability. you can manage pve just fine even having -3 lvls on the mobs you fight. but you wont fight like an assassin. you will basically hug a pillar and kite your a.ss off. you cannot withstand any dmg and you have a limited time window for killing your opponents, since you WILL get force starved.

 

in pvp your dmg is very predictable. everyone knows, that your big hits come right after 2 yoyo strikes. allowing them to pop defensive cds.

 

in pvp you can do good. but god save you if there are some skilled sorcs/sages specced into stun after bubble burst and root after knockback. you will be wanting to jump into the game urself and choke them to death in rl

[shallowsky]

I've had a similar problem. I'm currently on Corellian, I just hit level 50, I am in almost all orange with high level mods using Khem as tank who is also almost all in the orange and blue gear from pvp vendors and anytime I come up against two silvers there is a very good chance I will not survive the fight unless I kill one, Force Cloak, rez Khem, then kill the other one. When I come up against gold mobs I have to use every cooldown I have, stims, and medpacs, to just barely survive the fight as well as taunt the mobs off of Khem occasionally to share damage with him so he doesn't get killed. Levelling in this spec solo has been an extremely frustrating process, but I haven't changed spec because I don't have the credits to buy new abilities if I change to a different tree.

[Forduc]

Deception might not be optimal for leveling, but luckily there is no such thing as "deception assassin". You are free to choose you talents, you can even change them without cost once a week and don't have to pay for new abilities when respeccing.

 

At early levels deception is probably the best spec for levelling. After you get Andro/Ashara Darkness is also quite nice. I played Madness after lvl 40, and it was very very easy for most parts. Bosses could be kited, mind trap will let you handle big pulls and there isn't too much downtime.

 

ps. I tried to get to new planet while class quest was still yellow. I "skipped" few planets becouse class quest was already green when I got there.

[Abiza]

Deception till 38-40 or so. Then go darkness and laugh as you kill a champion and 2 elites with ease, one handed, backwards, while eating chips and watching tv.

 

No, really. It's that silly. Just switch to w/e spec you want once you ding 50.

[Ch_Zero]

I think the point people are trying to make is deception is more difficult than other specs to level.

 

It's not impossible my any means.

 

To get through some key class story quests i had to use Talos to get heals, any other companion would not do.

 

I've tried both other specs, and trust me when i say this.

 

both tanking and madness

WAY easier!

 

You can be the most skilled player in the world, if you don't think Deception has some balance issues you're blind.

 

Deception is probably the hardest spec out of ANY class in the game to level. PERIOD.

[Ch_Zero]

We have Deflection which increases melee and ranged defenses by 50% for 12 seconds.

 

We have Dark Ward which gives a 15% increase to shield chance for 20 seconds, or 8 blocks.

 

Both of the above skills can be used in any stance.

 

We can use Low Slash / Electrocute to stun the target and setup behind them for a Maul after Khem is dead.

 

We can use Jolt to silence a target and lock them out of that ability for 4 seconds.

 

The point is we have plenty of utility to survive, but you have to think about what you need to do to stay alive during the fight. When fighting Zash I kited her all over the pillars in the temple while waiting for my stuns to come off of CD after Khem died. Since a lot of the abilities she uses are on a cast timer, you can use LoS to stop her cast and get a hit in while running to the next pillar.

 

And by the way, your post makes no sense. Deception assassins do NOT have dark ward, unless you are some weird hybrid spec. And the deflection skill doesnt increase our defence, BECAUSE WE SHOULD NOT HAVE DEFENCE STATS ON OUR GEAR!'

 

Those key things you are looking at are in the tanking tree. This is Deception NOT Tanking!

 

geez

[blaynew]

I wouldn't say that they are weaker per level, but Deception certainly falls off really quickly after around lvl 40. Before that, the Deception tree gives you your basic tools faster than the other trees, but then doesn't have too much payoff.

 

The main issue for me comes down to us getting screwed by abilities granted from our tree. We loose 1 ability to our tree's charge while the other two trees just get to learn their charge from the trainer. So when we get Surging Charge the other trees get Dark Ward and Death Field. Both of those are pretty powerful abilities and it doesn't really seem like a fair trade. Further up, we get Low Slash which isn't the most useful skill IMO, I only ever use it to set up a Maul. Darkness gets Force Pull, giving it a 30m skill and another key tanking tool, Madness just keeps making Death Field stronger. Then the final skills, what should be the fruit of the tree, we get a slightly buffed Thrash that give Shock a bit of a boost... huh? Look in the Madness tree and in the 25-35 range their Thrash gets almost the exact same boost from Claws of Decay and Raze, maybe even a better one. Meanwhile, Madness gets another 30m DOT which also immobilizes, making it a beefed Low Slash and Darkness gets Wither which is a great skill.

 

The second is that our tree lacks survivability, Tanks are Tanks and Madness gets self heals and damage reduction and in return we mostly get better stealth. I like Stealth, but a lot of the high level fights are initiated by interacting with something and then fighting eliminating that bonus and if you Force Cloak everything not dead gets full health so it isn't that combat useful.

[Lmorales]

I leveled Deception all the way. I don't think there were any areas that were that difficult; certainly didn't have to to be 3 levels higher. I found most stuff solo-able, even if it was 2 strong mobs and an elite... or a specific champion(attempted solo several different ones, successful with one...at same level)

 

I don't think Deception is weak, but I will say it does require a high skill level of play.

 

I personally always hated melee classes in other MMOs, but I enjoy the play style of Deception. I don't think they are the anywhere close to being a top dps class, but they aren't last; right there in the middle. They can be bursty at times, but its usually consistent damage(for the most part). I don't know where they stand for PVP, mainly because I suck at PVP and don't play it as often.

[Dpsspree]

I leveled with madness and darkness untill level 40 when I could get to the top of the talent tree. I did not have an problems killing strongs and elites that were a level or 2 higher than me. If the elite was 3 levels higher than me then it wasnt easy or ust not possible. From 40-50 I really didnt have any problems.

[ydenneksirhc]

Hey Everyone,

 

SPOILER ALERT- there are some spoilers of the Inquisitor storyline below.

 

A BioWare GM asked that I post this issue here to the forums to see if we can get some community feedback regarding the underpowered nature of the Assassin Deception spec. I have found leveling mine to 50, and buying all the custom mods I can to beef up his abilities as I was leveling, that the Sith Inquisitor Assassin Deception spec is consistently unpowered for the level in comparison to other classes.

 

This has taught me to learn about and to use every single ability the assassin has and when to use it, but it still requires me to be much higher than the level and there are just not enough drops or commendations to equip both me and my companion(s). At 50 I can start decking out everyone with Xalek being the easiest one to deck out in my old gear.

 

So during my 50 level journey, I have found that I always need to be 3 levels higher than the zones I'm going in, especially when fighting gold mobs. At 3 levels higher, the fight is still very tough to win but doable tho companion death almost always occurs. At the level of the mob or 1-2 level above I have found it mostly impossible to win. It took me a while to realize that without the stealth attack combos at the beginning of each of these storyline and boss fights, Deception Spec'd assassins are always at a disadvantage. After a plethora of deaths, I quit trying to fight these mobs outright. I can remember the Vash and Thanaton in the dreamwalking quests as the examples that stand out most clearly.

 

Also for fights where the gold mobs has adds, I always have to kill the adds quickly, then Force Cloak before I die, heal, and then go back for the gold mob. Usually my companion is dead by the time the adds are all finally dead.

 

Has anyone else playing the Deception Assassin run into this issue?

 

The Sith Inquisitor is a wonderful storyline, just wished the Deception Assassin wasn't so underpowered. Please chime in if you've either played or are playing a Deception Assassin Sith Inquisitor. Thanks everyone.

 

I understand what your saying, buy maybe you just need more practice and faster response. This is not an insult to you or your playstyle, its just not the easiest class to play. I can see where your coming from and understand what difficulties you may be having, but i did every leveling zone 2 levels under its minimum (i was desperate to see more planets lol) and i beat thanaton at level 48, half greens, half level 45ish oranges, khem val all greens, plus the heroic moment CD, took me a few tries but i did it. Its kinda like a rogue in WoW, when you first hit 80 (or 70, 60, 85 w/e) it was a hard class to get used to, but as you progressed and got more play time on that character and more experienced, you become a better assassin. Its all about how much time you put into the class. This isnt the ordanary videogame where everyone gets the some story and experience. There are the heroic raiders/nightmare raiders, and war heros and battlemasters (and above), and they are better than most because of the time they put into it.

 

you said its more during leveling, well in pvp at level 36 (first time i pvped on this toon) i was playing with geared level 50s, and i was able to beat half of the ones i went up against (most were centurions at the time, maybe an occasional champion) and it felt great. Ive played a sniper too and i can tell you its 10x easier than an assassin, you just sit in the back casting hoping you dont get chased haha, and if u do, thats when skill is tested. Just play the assassin more, and if it is underpowered, and you still manage to kick some ***, you should be more proud of yourself, then playing for instance a merc dps or sorcerer (or a paladin for a wow reference), which are both OP as hell in my mind. I always choose the harder classes because i get more of a kick out of it

 

enjoy your assassin, they are well worth the work and practice!

 

cheers

[Kazirath]

I play a level 50 Decep assassin. I dont really pve that much or have to much intertest in it So it would be out of context talk about that. I can remember having some troubles leveling, normally using the healer companion or a dps one to zerg whatever I am fighting. I think lots of the issues stems from force regen. Our main attack is half of our force. couple that with being in the right spot (behind the target) makes it hard to just run through mobs.

 

My issue is pvp. I understand the role of being the light armor bursty char. Which i love. Sneak in get a kill try to stay alive, tons of fun. However we are VERY limited with our force costs of spells and regen. Force cost verse damage just doesnt come out right.

 

 

P.S sorry for any typo's