Why Sorcs need a nerf

[Lastboss]

The biggest issue with sages/sorcs are their op dfensive cooldowns:

 

Knockback -> Sprint -> Shield

 

 

All of these have very short cds - 20/20/30 sec cd if I am not mistaken.

 

Simple pressing these 3 buttons in a row you should NEVER die unless zerged 10vs1.

 

And yes also they ignore all tour defense.

And yes also they have insta ccs and heals.

 

Hell at least operatives can be bursted down if catched in the right moment.

 

Is it too much what do you think?

Finally someone who manages to see the big picture instead of walking along the lines of "I am *insertclass* and I can pewpew Sorcs" or "I am a Sorc, and I get killed all the time".

 

And to that so called pro-tip about light armor, mentioned earlier: Just because you wear a robe doesn't mean you should have the most utility and among the best damage. Also, the mitigation-values between different armor-classes in this game is minimal, compared to most other games.

[MoarPowar]

Consider that they are probably hesitant to nerf the most-played AC (sorc)...

 

From a business standpoint, that is.

 

Op/scoundrel has much higher odds of receiving the nerfbat for this reason. Much fewer playing, and the ones rolling them now are doing so to participate in the kill everyone in 3 seconds stealth burst god mode.

Edited January 16, 2012 by MoarPowar

[Mr_Gallows]

The biggest issue with sages/sorcs are their op dfensive cooldowns:

 

Knockback -> Sprint -> Shield

 

 

All of these have very short cds - 20/20/30 sec cd if I am not mistaken.

 

Simple pressing these 3 buttons in a row you should NEVER die unless zerged 10vs1.

 

And yes also they ignore all tour defense.

And yes also they have insta ccs and heals.

 

Hell at least operatives can be bursted down if catched in the right moment.

 

Is it too much what do you think?

 

There is ranged roots... many classes have them. I love sorcerors who run. Root and shoot. I kill a lot of people just with basic shot as they try to run.

[Orangerascal]

The biggest issue with sorcs are their op dfensive cooldowns:

 

Knockback -> Sprint -> Shield

 

 

All of these have very short cds - 20/20/30 sec cd if I am not mistaken.

 

Simple pressing these 2 buttons in a row you should NEVER die unless zerged 10vs1.

 

And yes also they ignore all tour defense.

And yes also they have insta ccs and heals.

 

Is it too much what do you think?

 

Every class has an abundance of cc. Saying this means that you're not even close to 50 and that's the real problem you're having. In fact tanks get more cc than sages/sorcs do, commandos, assassins get just as much and IO/Scoundrel slightly less.

 

Melee in the same gear crit us for about 4k. Bad players whine because they are kited even with so many anti-kiting skills in the game (charges and speed). These are the same people that open with charge btw and wonder why they get kited.

 

Lastly sorcs are the squishiest class in the game, When I heal, I can keep any class up except for a sage/sorc and scoundrel against other 2 dps classes. A 4s stun on a sage/sorc is almost a death sentence with 2 dps on them. The same is true only for the scoundrel/operative.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Ginzuu]

This is how mages work in an mmo.

 

You let them stand freely and cast, your gonna get it.

You put a sword up in their face and keep it there, the sorc dmg is split in half.

 

We are squishy, so we get utility to survive.

 

Deal with it.

[sumfizz]

Sorcs are ridiculous, Im a tank and their lightning just cuts through my defenses I keep interrupting, I keep on them to keep up the pressure and they use their bubble and kite away with their sprint and LoS and reheal.

 

REally? Did you slow them? Did you leap after them when they sprint away? Did you apply armor reduction? Use your shield that reduces force and tech damage? Force push them (interrupt) to the ground, force choke them (interrupt)? They aren't that hard if you're using more than 3 abilities and have fingers that can span the #1-6 keys on the keyboard.

 

Maybe your fingers are too small and you're limited to 3 keys. I dunno. It's nothing you can't grow into.

[Vealage]

20 sec, 17 with set-bonus. Can still be applied to 5 teammates while waiting for the debuff to disappear from yourself..

 

The set is for healers. Force armor drains Force, so you can't spam it, especially if you aren't healer spec'd. And if you are, then CC and DPS are not a real concern.

 

True, but you can manage your proccs freely, so you have the alternative to do both, whatever suits the situation

 

Don't think you understand what I am saying here. I am saying you cannot have good burst, and all these instant casts. You have to choose. And if you want to heal, well that is a third choice you have to make.

 

Not that garbage when you can sprint out of LoS, throw some heals, then go back/wait for the enemy to appear and finish the job.

 

If we sprint away, why the hell would you chase us if you were in a heavily contested zone? We retreated, that means you won. We can heal and come back but it would take about 15 seconds to fully heal, then we would also have low Force. If you are talking about sprinting away on 1v1, then you can easily get back within range and start hitting us before we get more than a heal off. Again, it will be Force costly too. If we are healer spec'd then you shouldn't have a problem 1v1 anyway.

 

At Valor rank 58, I hardly get intimidated by the lightning effects. Thank you for your concerns tho.. To me, it sounds more like you refuse to see the true nature of the Sorc. And "A Sorc can't kill someone before their CC runs out." What is that supposed to mean? If you think you are totally fine balance wise, just because you don't have the burst of Operatives, you are sadly mistaking, in my oppinion.

 

To me, it sounds more like you refuse to see the true nature of the Sorc/Sage. That's the same thing I think of you right now. And again, you misunderstand what I typed. I am not saying our burst should kill you before the CC runs out. What I am saying is, considering our damage, our CC isn't that bad. Our long CC is breakable on any damage, including DoTs, and so to complain about our other CC ability, a 4 sec stun is ridiculous when we can barely do anything in that time. 2 casts tops, neither of which will do much damage.

 

Red text makes it official yo.

[Apokalypsis]

REally? Did you slow them? Did you leap after them when they sprint away? Did you apply armor reduction? Use your shield that reduces force and tech damage? Force push them (interrupt) to the ground, force choke them (interrupt)? They aren't that hard if you're using more than 3 abilities and have fingers that can span the #1-6 keys on the keyboard.

 

Maybe your fingers are too small and you're limited to 3 keys. I dunno. It's nothing you can't grow into.

 

The problem most of the times are the bugs/lag/delays in the game. You press interrupt and it doesnt interrupt, they heal up and start again... You charge and it doesnt interrupt... Its frustrating.

[balduri]

The biggest issue with sages/sorcs are their op dfensive cooldowns:

 

Knockback -> Sprint -> Shield

 

 

All of these have very short cds - 20/20/30 sec cd if I am not mistaken.

 

Simple pressing these 3 buttons in a row you should NEVER die unless zerged 10vs1.

 

And yes also they ignore all tour defense.

And yes also they have insta ccs and heals.

 

Hell at least operatives can be bursted down if catched in the right moment.

 

Is it too much what do you think?

 

In my opinion WZ's at least arent for killing people, they are about doing the objectives. So when the sorc/sage sprints and flees, that's a small victory, you can either capture the objective or you have succeeded on defending it...

Edited January 16, 2012 by balduri

[LoL-K-Noob]

The biggest issue with sages/sorcs are their op dfensive cooldowns:

 

Knockback -> Sprint -> Shield

 

 

All of these have very short cds - 20/20/30 sec cd if I am not mistaken.

 

Simple pressing these 3 buttons in a row you should NEVER die unless zerged 10vs1.

 

And yes also they ignore all tour defense.

And yes also they have insta ccs and heals.

 

Hell at least operatives can be bursted down if catched in the right moment.

 

Is it too much what do you think?

 

When I face Juggs their force leap constantly closes the gap and they have a snare. It also seems like every class runs faster for some reason when I make a gap they catch up.

[Durio]

Stop bringing up light armor, it doesn't even really make a noticable difference between light and heavy in terms of pvp.

[LoL-K-Noob]

Stop bringing up light armor, it doesn't even really make a noticable difference between light and heavy in terms of pvp.

 

Thats funny, because I see myself doing 1.5 it not more damage to cloth instead of heavy.

[balduri]

 

To sum it up:

- Ranged

- Sprint

- Knockback

- Instant cast long duration CC

- Great AoE damage

- Snare

- Mostly instant cast dmg abilities, if specced "right"

- A shield working post-mitigation, with a short CD

- Great burst

- Rescue

- Heals

 

As many others have stated, we really don't get that all in one package. It's all about specs, at least I lack great aoe damage, great burst and great heals. Also, almost nobody uses force lift unless absolutely necessary because it fills up resolve almost right away.

[Niconogood]

They should just run out of force so they NEED to manage their resource. The fact that these classes do not need to to worry about their resources for dps is huge advantage.

 

This. As a commando medic I run out of juice within 4-5 casts if i try to spam. A sorc can just mindlessly facerollspam for seemingly forever. Also commando medics got no sorts of getaways or instant bubbles, save for an instantheal for 1,5k every 21 sec (top tier ability). Not saying commandos are useless healers. They can shine in PvE if you play correctly. In PvP however theyre just utter garbage compared to the immense amount of tools given to their sage counterpart.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Niconogood

[Fufy]

As always, so much noobs spreading garbage.

 

Sorc/sage spells ARE mitigated by Armor so stop spreading this bullcrap already.

[Lastboss]

There is ranged roots... many classes have them. I love sorcerors who run. Root and shoot. I kill a lot of people just with basic shot as they try to run.

Those ranged roots does not really work to well when you are out of LoS, and with Sprint, breaking LoS is EASY to do within a global CD, which is usually how long it takes for someone to actually use their snare.

 

Every class has an abundance of cc. Saying this means that you're not even close to 50 and that's the real problem you're having.

 

Melee in the same gear crit us for about 4k. Bad players whine because they are kited even with so many anti-kiting skills in the game (charges and speed). These are the same people that open with charge btw and wonder why they get kited.

 

Lastly sorcs are the squishiest class in the game, When I heal, I can keep any class up except for a sorc and scoundrel against other 2 dps classes. A 4s stun on a sorc is almost a death sentence with 2 dps on them. The same is true only for the scoundrel/operative.

You forgot to mention Snipers. And what remains? BHs that use heavy armor and are very susceptible to interrupt and los, melee!! that naturally got more defense in terms of abilities because they have to be in melee!! range to do damage, tanks that don't really do any damage, and assasins who shares a tank-tree. Also, as you use two enemy players and a two sec stun to get you down, wouldn't it be fair to assume that you had a teammate with you as well?

[Orangerascal]

Stop bringing up light armor, it doesn't even really make a noticable difference between light and heavy in terms of pvp.

 

oh yeah, tell that to my sentinel guild mate.

[Highfives]

REally? Did you slow them? Did you leap after them when they sprint away? Did you apply armor reduction? Use your shield that reduces force and tech damage? Force push them (interrupt) to the ground, force choke them (interrupt)? They aren't that hard if you're using more than 3 abilities and have fingers that can span the #1-6 keys on the keyboard.

 

Maybe your fingers are too small and you're limited to 3 keys. I dunno. It's nothing you can't grow into.

 

I know my class, people who do not know say but why can't you do this? when they do not understand the capabilities of the class.

 

You mention Saber Ward but you don't mention that it is a 12 second ability with a 3 minute CD and only a 25% reduction in force damage during this time, you mention force leap but you have no experience with force leap because enemies LoS you when they kite away, you mention force push but then you don't take into account that a sorc will kite away after a force push + force leap and now your force leap is on CD.

 

Don't tell me about Guardian I know it better than you do.

[Niconogood]

This is how mages work in an mmo.

 

You let them stand freely and cast, your gonna get it.

You put a sword up in their face and keep it there, the sorc dmg is split in half.

 

We are squishy, so we get utility to survive.

 

Deal with it.

 

Well, so am I, yet I dont...

 

But Im fine with it. I enjoy the spawntimer. It seems to be an integral part of the game. All I ask for is a parity between classes. Cause sometimes it feels kinda lonely up on the reztimer with other classes, vanishing, force speeding etc. into immortality.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Niconogood

[Orangerascal]

This. As a commando medic I run out of juice within 4-5 casts if i try to spam. A sorc can just mindlessly facerollspam for seemingly forever. Also commando medics got no sorts of getaways or instant bubbles, save for an instantheal for 1,5k every 21 sec (top tier ability). Not saying commandos are useless healers. They can shine in PvE if you play correctly. In PvP however theyre just utter garbage compared to the immense amount of tools given to their sage counterpart.

 

We go OOF alot.

 

The grass just might not be as green as you think.

[Naej]

The ability delay (doesn't want to bring it up AGAIN) us screwing me more against sorcs than anything else. I play a guardian and I can't even time my interrupts properly.

 

I'm pretty sure sorcs are fine or close to as they are right now.

[Durio]

Thats funny, because I see myself doing 1.5 it not more damage to cloth instead of heavy.

 

then you are a SW/JK class. Armor doesn't negate most of the important damage that comes in @ PvP like Internal damage etc.

[Orangerascal]

Those ranged roots does not really work to well when you are out of LoS, and with Sprint, breaking LoS is EASY to do within a global CD, which is usually how long it takes for someone to actually use their snare.

 

I thought the issue was sorcs doing too much damage ... if sorcs did too much damage, they would not have to running away. They would just drop you by killing you before you kill them. This isn't the case.

 

Ask any decent level 50 what they think about sages/sorcs. In fact only bad players complain about they've never been kited before. PVP mobs don't kite *shocker*

 

You forgot to mention Snipers. And what remains? BHs that use heavy armor and are very susceptible to interrupt and los, melee!! that naturally got more defense in terms of abilities because they have to be in melee!! range to do damage, tanks that don't really do any damage, and assasins who shares a tank-tree. Also, as you use two enemy players and a two sec stun to get you down, wouldn't it be fair to assume that you had a teammate with you as well?

 

BH's are the other most whined about class on the thread (apart from IO), I'm going to bother talking about them. Snipers are ranged tanks in cover. They basically sacrifice their mobility and cc (although their knockback is sick) for a turret style gameplay. Sorc play is more mobile which is why it's frustrating to bad players who's use to fighting mobs that don't run away. Players don't whine about snipers because they can actually hit them (much weakly).

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Niconogood]

We go OOF alot.

 

The grass just might not be as green as you think.

 

Believe me. I have a RL buddy I play with almost every day that is sorc. Your energy management is close to non-existant. Oh yeah, in drawnout fights where you have been spamming non-stop for several minutes you might get low. Commando however have to think energy management every single time he presses the buttons. If he doesnt execute certain combos correctly or use the right skills we will be below 40% ammo in 3 casts, which basically means GG as the regen suddenly became non-existant.

[balduri]

Believe me. I have a RL buddy I play with almost every day that is sorc. Your energy management is close to non-existant. Oh yeah, in drawnout fights where you have been spamming non-stop for several minutes you might get low. Commando however have to think energy management every single time he presses the buttons. If he doesnt execute certain combos correctly or use the right skills we will be below 40% ammo in 3 casts, which basically means GG as the regen suddenly became non-existant.

 

Well Sage's energy pool lasts much longer than on commando but it's a pain to regen it back when it's depleted.