WarheartZero Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Im trying , but they said they will nerf that on tuesday , dont know if by them i will have full champ , just so damm unlucky with those bags... valor 48 ... and still far from full set ... Oh man that is bad luck! I got 4 pieces out of my first 7 bags! The first champ bag I got was a chest piece! make sure to do the pvp weekly and Illum weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Really , this problem would be easily solved if we , people who actually pull our weigh simple took care to never group with people who cant , if we never group with them they would be stuck simple cause they are atm incapable of performing to complete anything , and then they would be forced to learn , but since many of us still carry them , they get this used to being bad and useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarheartZero Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Exactly. We're running blind here. It's not very fun. So you can't play a game with out cheats and have fun?! I think you lost what the term "game" originally meant as a gamer. I'm a tank, I could say a threat meter would help but that takes away the challenge. WOW had a mod for everything and it got to the point blizzard was designing bosses around the fact that you will have a 3rd party mod. It's ridiculous, games are supposed to be challenging and are intended for you to learn as you fight and figure it out. Edited January 16, 2012 by WarheartZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeman Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How do you determine what was at fault? Was it the healers incapable of healing? Was it too few healers? Was it DPS not being geared enough? Was it DPS not knowing their characters well enough? Was the tank not geared enough? Was the DPS and tank well-geared but the healing the problem? Was the overall item level of the group the issue? Was the healing not efficient enough? These are questions that begged to be answered and cannot be answered subjectively. So it really can't be figured out without a tool? If this is true then you have a point. However I am skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Oh man that is bad luck! I got 4 pieces out of my first 7 bags! The first champ bag I got was a chest piece! make sure to do the pvp weekly and Illum weekly Yeap i do every daily after the gear, and pvp a lot for more bags , just tough luck i guess. Still gonna make a run for it till the nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acidictadpole Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I don't quite understand the OPs issue here. He says there's no DPS meters so people can "get away with it". If they finish the heroic, what's the problem? If they're wiping too much, just tell the guy he doesn't have the gear. If you're that serious about this kind of thing, you'd probably be inspecting people as you get to the heroic. If someone doesn't look like they have the gear, you could either kick them and tell them they need better gear, or give it a try and see how it goes. None of this could be obviously corrected with a dps meter. And that will only serve to aide elitism, which this game can do without for PUGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So you can't play a game with out cheats and have fun?! I think you lost what the term "game" originally meant as a gamer.Noone's asking for cheats. Misusing a word like that doesn't make you look clever; quite the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMYoda Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 So...a damage meter = everyone gets blue and purple gear? I get what you're trying to say but damage meters aren't going to 'fix' the issue you're having. I believe a DPS meter would fix the issue to a large extent. Many players are thinking they do good DPS although they have crappy gear. If they saw that their DPS is actually bad and get complaints, they would probably use AH and dailies to upgrade their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justahdude Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 OP, I am curious which AH you are looking at. My server is probably not packed like yours, but still there is never really anything worthwhile on the AH. Unless of course i put it there. and dont even tell me its a population issue... because its not really, because none of the GTNs in the game are linked... So yeah my question is which one is everyone using generally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I don't quite understand the OPs issue here. He says there's no DPS meters so people can "get away with it". If they finish the heroic, what's the problem? If they're wiping too much, just tell the guy he doesn't have the gear.Tell which guy? Who's failing in his group? Why are they wiping? Since you're an advocate of guessing, you should be able to guess now. None of this could be obviously corrected with a dps meter. And that will only serve to aide a different type of elitism than the type I'm advocatingFixed. you're advocating "look at the purples" elitism, which is even worse than the "the numbers actually show factually that you're underperforming" elitism, since the former is a less quantifiable evaluation of their performance. Edited January 16, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenquake Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let me get this straight. You guys are ************ that people don't actively gear up. And you say that you can tell from their equipment being green and blue. As in, gear color rather than stats are important. Excuse me, but I'm rocking purple and orange on level 43 from casual quest grinding. My armor is a purple from a random out-of-quest mob drop. How is it even possible to go through the storyline and sidequests without ending up with > green stuff? Apart from that... As much as I'd personally like to see advanced performance statistics to improve and evolve in the game myself, this thread and the people in it prove to me that it would be abused as an epeen amplifier rather than a tool. I'd rather be without performance stats if it means we can keep just the bare minimum of civility and friendliness we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaestmannaeyjar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 DPS meters help us learn what level of gear is acceptable to take on the content. That's called "a brain". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DND_Druid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let me get this straight. You guys are ************ that people don't actively gear up. And you say that you can tell from their equipment being green and blue. As in, gear color rather than stats are important. Excuse me, but I'm rocking purple and orange on level 43 from casual quest grinding. My armor is a purple from a random out-of-quest mob drop. How is it even possible to go through the storyline and sidequests without ending up with > green stuff? Apart from that... As much as I'd personally like to see advanced performance statistics to improve and evolve in the game myself, this thread and the people in it prove to me that it would be abused as an epeen amplifier rather than a tool. I'd rather be without performance stats if it means we can keep just the bare minimum of civility and friendliness we currently have. Hear hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is an obvious troll post as the OP should have just posted in one of the numerous damage meters thread. Meters won't prevent the group from forming and are for the most part meaningless outside of bosses. What the OP wants is a tool to inspect players BEFORE they start the instance to get piece of mind.....oh wait it already exists. This thread should die now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Tell which guy? Who's failing in his group? Why are they wiping? Since you're an advocate of guessing, you should be able to guess now. Fixed. you're advocating "look at the purples" elitism, which is even worse than the "the numbers actually show factually that you're underperforming" elitism, since the former is a less quantifiable evaluation of their performance. This. One of the main "arguments" against meters is they breed elitism. Yet all of the anti-meter folks here are now saying "just dont group with scrubs in greens". Which is even worse, considering I know many people who are in fact good enough to get better results with far lower quality gear than the majority of players. So it turns out the "Anti-meter" crowds argument of "we don't like elitists" is actually "we don't like elitists that base their elitism on facts and figues so we cant be in their club". Funny that, not so much a moral high ground anymore is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So it really can't be figured out without a tool? If this is true then you have a point. However I am skeptical. A tool like a DPS meter can parse out combat information in a temporal format to let you know how long a fight will take at your current DPS, how much damage your group is taking and how much healing is being put out. You cannot get that information objectively in that format without a tool to crunch the numbers for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That's called "a brain". It's called testing, information gathering and concluding. Testing and concluding is the brain part. Information gathering is the tool part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrantos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 And this is why I probably won't stick around very long with the game. Once I finish the main storyline - I'll probably be done. Gear/faction/daily grinds aren't my thing. I am enjoying the storylines, but if raid grinds is the sort of endgame Bioware is going to focus on - that will be disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Hear hear! I agree! But double check your sig. I think there's a typo. Edited January 16, 2012 by Nexusissei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let's put it this way. . . You die on a boss. Why did you die? You know the mechanics, everyone worked with them just fine. What went wrong? umm it's still really easy to tell if you can't a. get enough healing b. get enough dps c. tanks aren't geared well enough Been raiding since EQ1 a damage meter is not going to tell you these things. If you can't figure out where the weak spot is then it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) umm it's still really easy to tell if you can't a. get enough healing b. get enough dps c. tanks aren't geared well enough Been raiding since EQ1 a damage meter is not going to tell you these things. If you can't figure out where the weak spot is then it's you. You at least had a combat log in EQ. And those fights were just tank and spank. Edited January 16, 2012 by Nexusissei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalidi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Damage meters are a terrible measure of a person's worth. You do other roles in PVE and PVP situations rather than just put out numbers. If you want to know how good someone is, inspect their best-in-slot pieces... it reads like a history of where they have been, what they have killed in order to loot that equipment. And if they're all quest greens and pvp pieces then likely that person doesn't have much FP experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganelon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) This. One of the main "arguments" against meters is they breed elitism. Yet all of the anti-meter folks here are now saying "just dont group with scrubs in greens". Which is even worse, considering I know many people who are in fact good enough to get better results with far lower quality gear than the majority of players. So it turns out the "Anti-meter" crowds argument of "we don't like elitists" is actually "we don't like elitists that base their elitism on facts and figues so we cant be in their club". Funny that, not so much a moral high ground anymore is it. Does not surprise me at all. Considering the anti-meter (or andti-addon, or anti LFD) position is actually the one that displays signs of elitism, intolerance and lack of respect for the other players. What they are basically saying is that their way of playing is the only one that should exist, that if you don't do things the way they think you should be doing them you are wrong, and that they think you shouldn't even be given the option to play the way you want to. Edited January 16, 2012 by Ganelon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 They get away with it because there are no DPS meters. It's hard to find good people for PUGs. That is absolute rubbish. A good player is a good player, DPS is only one part of how well someone is performing. In fact, it is lazy team leaders who feel the need to simplify things down to DPS as the deciding factor which are causing problems. You can tell when someone is slacking on a team if you pay attention, which any good leader should be doing so they can organize their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Damage meters are a terrible measure of a person's worth. You do other roles in PVE and PVP situations rather than just put out numbers. If you want to know how good someone is, inspect their best-in-slot pieces... it reads like a history of where they have been, what they have killed in order to loot that equipment. And if they're all quest greens and pvp pieces then likely that person doesn't have much FP experience. What you're explaining is a bad raid leader or member misusing his tools. It doesn't mean the tool is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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