Gunslinger PvP Discussion

[Zahhr]

With all of the recent QQ threads about how people can't 3 shot people and actually die, I thought It was time to start to start a thread where gunslingers could discuss pvp tactics in a constructive manner.

 

Here are a few ideas to start the discussion:

1) cover - when to use and when not to use

2) ability pairing, which abilities to use together for maximum effeciency

3) spec/skill points debate

4) tips for 1v1 combat - how do you beat X class? (Personally, I have trouble with operatives, how do you guys deal with them?)

5) gear discussion. Which stat is the best to stack, and why?

6) anything else you can think of

 

ready, go!

[qqmoarploxify]

With all of the recent QQ threads about how people can't 3 shot people and actually die, I thought It was time to start to start a thread where gunslingers could discuss pvp tactics in a constructive manner.

 

Here are a few ideas to start the discussion:

1) cover - when to use and when not to use

2) ability pairing, which abilities to use together for maximum effeciency

3) spec/skill points debate

4) tips for 1v1 combat - how do you beat X class? (Personally, I have trouble with operatives, how do you guys deal with them?)

5) gear discussion. Which stat is the best to stack, and why?

6) anything else you can think of

 

ready, go!

 

1) Cover is stupid remove it and let me run around shooting my gun like the madman I dreamt of while playing a duelwielding blaster pistol han'solo type figure. I use cover every 6 seconds to refresh balistic dampers in a 1v1 since it doesn't effect the GC, but I'll stay in cover untill I'm getting focused when I don't have the dampers or when I need to move. With all the gap closers its probaly not a good idea to get out of cover and lose the damage you can put on the target since they are gonna be right up your *** anyway, unless you can flash grenade and run away but thats only going to last a few seconds. Don't forget to also use leg shot though and your pulse detonator.

 

3) I'm in my pve spec atm, big disadvantage but it's for raiding. I wan't to make a pvp spec thinking about sab fighting hybrid taking the aoe damage with all the damage reduction I can grab/energy effeciceny. Since it pvp as SS I usually neglect my energy bar I find my self casting my auto more then I should be. Huge damage loss.

 

2) With this spec I take the bonus for sab charge in the sab tree to maximize burst damage. I pair my sab charge with a aimed shot and trick shot usually getting the oppertunity to use my execute and then the instant 100% crit with smugglers luck and usually they die. If it's a healer they normally don't expect the burst with my sab charge and aimed shot, especially since i pop trinkets on them, including reusable's and an overcharge.

 

4) Atm operatives are to op, however all their damage comes from bursting knocked down targets. Only surefire way for them not to baiscally ambush you for half your health (woo rogues all over again) is to have a lucky hunker down so they can't use thier core abilites on you. However I'm not 100% how they work for the rest of their damage all I know is the reason they are bad in PvE is because they can't knockdown enemies which enables the use of their core damaging abiltiy. Assuming you can prevent them from knocking you down in pvp it would also stop alot of their damage. Do DoTs take people out of stealth? I find sometimes they do and somtimes they don't. I sure could use tips on juggs/powertechs/tank assasins.

 

5) Crit/surge and obviously power and expterise no duh. Alacrity is crap. This is all about burst and you wan't to be hitting as hard as you can wtih your aimed shot/sab charge which combined do abotu 8-9k for me if they crit, and thats without surge rating. I only have abotu a 60% crit multiplyer on the tooltip atm not including talents.

 

6) Teach me how to hybrid. I wan't a spec that can actually 1v1 easily against tanks.

[Jandor_Ziska]

NB: I use a pretty standard DF spec.

 

I'm not sure trying to go 1v1 is an efficient use of your time. Your damage comes from AOE DOTs and focused fire. You have a few tools than can help you in tight defensive situations against Juggs, (ie, leg snare, Shrap Bomb with the slowdown, Dirty Kick and the Flash Grenade), so if you're lucky you can kite them for long enough to burn them down.

 

But you're much better off to go where the action is, rather than try to guard or ninja points. Find the main fight, and go from there. If defending & losing, I run about trying to DOT up as many of the attackers as possible. You can do this pretty quickly with TAB targeting, Vital Shot & Shrap Bomb. You'll die, but hopefully you'll have bought an extra 10-15 seconds or so for the team.

 

If the fight is about 50/50 or better, I take a second to find the healers & tanks & start burning them. I find that they often get ignored, and it makes a huge difference. If you are desperate, you can hunker down and go nuts on a single target, but I've found this almost always results in you dying.

 

If there are no healers I usually try to aggro the Operative. I figure if I can get him to blow all his cooldowns to kill me, I've taken him/her out of the fight for a little while. Far better for a DPS to go down than your side's healer.

 

In general, I find I work best if I play as a utility DPS, rather than pure DPS. My job is to help everyone else do their job better. For example, Flash Grenade kinda sucks compared to other classes CC, but it is a great way to peel for friends who are capping, especially in Voidstar, where you often have multiple enemies bunched together coming out of the respawn point.

[Infanta]

I have found DF to be better for me in PVE and PVP at the moment (especially for movement fights).

 

Cover is clunky but works ok, they just need to remove a few talents required from it and smooth the transition from person/cover/ability fire (and its annoying camera lock?)

[Slovic]

With all of the recent QQ threads about how people can't 3 shot people and actually die, I thought It was time to start to start a thread where gunslingers could discuss pvp tactics in a constructive manner.

 

Here are a few ideas to start the discussion:

1) cover - when to use and when not to use

2) ability pairing, which abilities to use together for maximum effeciency

3) spec/skill points debate

4) tips for 1v1 combat - how do you beat X class? (Personally, I have trouble with operatives, how do you guys deal with them?)

5) gear discussion. Which stat is the best to stack, and why?

6) anything else you can think of

 

ready, go!

 

1.) I try and use cover at max range and move as needed. This stops force leap/charge and allows me to use defensive cooldowns as needed. Obviously you move when you have to, try not to camp the same spot for too long, this allows ops to sneak up on you more easily. High ground is another amazing place for cover. This allows you to dps and avoid getting leap/charged up to.

 

2.) Wounding/speed/quick draw - Aimed/trick/charged(with proc)/quick draw

 

3.) I like sharpshooter the most because of the big numbers. However, I feel that dirty fighting is way better. This will probably change with gear.

 

4.) For operatives, as soon as they open on you. Trinket, and dirty kick and proceed to dot and kite them to death. Gunslingers have a lot of tools to use for kiting. Always keep a dot on them. Pretty much goes for any melee dps. Dot, kite, kill. For other ranged, inerrupt heals and important cast and just kill them faster than they can kill you. Pop dodge / other defensive cooldowns on key abilities like grav round / tracer or any other high damage nuke / heal. (don't forget your 30m interrupt! It's realllllly good.)

 

5.) I'm not 50 yet, however I plan on in this order Cunning/Crit-Surge/Power mostly because burst is king and I like dirty fighting's energy regen talent.

 

So far from my limited pvp experience I'd offer up:

 

-Don't camp one spot to long in cover.

 

-Constantly move if you can.

 

-Don't be afraid to pop cooldowns, they are on such short cooldowns and make a huge difference. Especially dodge.

 

-If you know you are about to lose a point and you are about to die but help is close, but not close enough to stop a cap. Put up dots on everyone so they cannot cap unless they get dispelled.

 

All I can think of atm.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Slovic

[vironass]

Hello everybody Well i would like to share my personal "research" about specs!

I ve spended more than 1 milion credits for respec and i ve tested all the specs and all hybrids combinations!(39k credits left )

Well atm i play as hybrid Sabo/Df focused on high dots and aoe and quick shots with sabo charge as a burst and the standar crit combined with charged burst.

My spec is http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/smuggler/gunslinger/#::fef3efe2f2ef2defefef12ef8e2f2efefefe3fe4: but i am thinking of removing 2-3 points to a better place tbh!

Tho my dmg at the end of a warzone is always 300k+ and i saw the magic number of 421k yesterday which made me stick for good with this spec!

Iam not trying to say that this is the spec to go..It's something that i like to play and fits better to my playstyle.

Its like pillar hug dot and hide and then cover sabo charge and quick shot(its like 4 sec in cover with a gc and an almost 3sec channeling) and then back to pill spamming dots and thermals

And after all i cannot play SS and kill an opponent in 4-5 sec because of cover seems very buggy that spec gives a respective survival and a nice burst and many abilities to kite away and kill an opponent in 1vs1 as it has great aoe preasure !

And cause of dots and aoe ppl cannot cap turrents etc and make healers life a bit difficult cause of multi dmg on their teammates! That's all sorry for my very bad english and typing but i am to sleepy cause of the job and stuff! I hope i helped a bit

[Grimthal]

Hello fellow Gunslingers!

 

I am valor 30 and in half pvp epics to just give you a background of my experiences. I am also not claiming I know everything or that I am right, these are just my experiences. First off, I feel that gunslingers are a little on the weak side for 1v1 fights. With that being said I feel like we really shine within a group. Your job is to not jump in the middle of the fight because you will get instagibbed. Stay along the fray of the fight and pick people off. I am SS spec and I feel like we have a good amount of burst damage. Keep an eye out for healers as you can easily take them out quickly because they are usually worried about keeping others alive and by the time they notice the damage they are taking, it will be too late. Also blow your relics often. The surge/crit and power relics do wonders for amping up your damage. The most important thing is that you have a general understanding of the other classes. As people get into rotations, they will become more predictable and therefore you can be ahead of the game. See a sourc standing on the bridge, don't walk across, you will get blasted off. Instead blow relics and show that imp the meaning of pain.

 

As it stands right now if an operative has the same or better gear than you and they get to open on you, they will win everytime unless they mess up. Try and roll with friends, it helps a lot. when I do this, when an op opens up on someone we trun and bring them down fast. If you happen to have someone that wants your blasters really bad, do your best to kite them around and through your allies. I have been saved many times by kiting someone though our group to have them turn on him.

 

And the last thing is don't forget about execute. Don't get tunnel vision on one guy bent on bringing him down. Pick a guy, dispence some damage but watch if someone get below 30% and switch to them to finish them off.

 

I am sure there is a lot I forgot about mainly because I am writing this on my phone while at work. If anyone has anymore to add that would be helpful it would be much appeciated.

[dcgregorya]

With all of the recent QQ threads about how people can't 3 shot people and actually die, I thought It was time to start to start a thread where gunslingers could discuss pvp tactics in a constructive manner.

 

Here are a few ideas to start the discussion:

1) cover - when to use and when not to use

2) ability pairing, which abilities to use together for maximum effeciency

3) spec/skill points debate

4) tips for 1v1 combat - how do you beat X class? (Personally, I have trouble with operatives, how do you guys deal with them?)

5) gear discussion. Which stat is the best to stack, and why?

6) anything else you can think of

 

ready, go!

 

1) Cover - use it when you need to for hunker down (or because skills require it) or when you need CC immunity or want to support your team with scrambling field. Don't stay in cover for long periods of time.

 

2) I go for an approach of stacking dots/maledictions then bursting. I want to lure a false sense of confidence then annihilate their HP. Sabo/Flourish/shock charge/shrap bomb/vital shot (at this point I usually have to pop defensive screen), then unleash hell and detonate and quickdraw - usually ends in the guy being dead.

 

3) I have stayed with sabo/bomber hybrid because I find it amazing and love the playstyle. I'll experiment once I max out my PVP gear.

 

4) Re: Operatives - just don't go it alone. If you're moving around you have a better chance of catching them with stealth detection - if so you should immediately hit your keybind for flashbang (for me it is tab then Z for target then flash), then back up, stack up your dots/leg shot and DPS them down. If you're with others you might die on the opening (this will be fixed a bit with the changes to adrenals and expertise) but at least they can hopefully CC him before you die and then you can kill him off. I view operatives as a one-shot wonder. They nail me once and then my team is aware of them (ventrilo ftw) and we summarily execute him on sight henceforth. If you're in some PVP gear you *might* survive solo by using escape + flashbang after the knockdown, pop expertise stim or medpack and then dot him up/dirty kick/drop to cover and speed shot/quickdraw.

 

5) In my opinion cunning->accuracy->crit->surge->power in that order.

Edited January 17, 2012 by dcgregorya

[tanoros]

I had a big reply typed up, and I lost it I'm not going to go into as much detail but a few key points.

 

1. My spec. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700rRrbdRoRgzZ0cZGb.1

I'm level 58 valor currently, and I spent quite a bit of time in open beta (full beta, not just weekend testing),

 

First do people not really use XS Freighter Flyby? I dont hear it talked about very often. I use this ability all time. When there are larger groups, and sometimes you don't actually hit people but force them away from certain areas. I also like to cast it, then go into the area of affect and take cover, and hunker down, then burn the melee that way.

 

I feel like this class is amazing in pvp. We can kill ***** very fast! On tanks, which are harder to kill. I like to use my black market mods followed by my 3 speed shots, then I go through my attack rotation. It usually works to drain tanks down very quick. I do notice that sometimes the tanks can pop a defense bonus at like 5 or 10% health. It's annoying and I believe it reduces all damage for however long it lasts. Anyone know? Anyway, I either stun and run at that point or I just keep shooting until they die. Depends on my health, and if they are targeting me. It they aren't I usually just switch target.

As for Operatives. If they dont kill us on the inital knockdown (which I've been lucky and havn't had this happen a whole lot) they are dead. Our class's cc is very good for dealing with melee and keeping them away. I also love that we can get the first shot off on any range class too (other than an imp sniper). Also range isn't a problem for me. Just reduce their armor and go through the rotation. Remember to use your trinket when it is off of cooldown too.

 

Lastly, remember. Biochem, Biochem, Biochem. This is a must for pvp. You get the extra trinket (I think it's called addrenall?) and you can get the reusable stim (extra cunning and power), and the reusable medpack. The medpack at 50 is medpack is AMAZING. I cant even tell you how many times this has saved my life, that and dodge It heals for like 8,000 health I belive. With a little over 2,000 of it being over time. I recently got full champ gear, but before that I never used pvp heals because of saving tokens. And with just that Biochem medpack alone, I would finish battles with only a few deaths. Remember to use your environment to your advantage. LOS people, and dont charge in the fight. Stay back and wrek havoc!

[aistobasbistoc]

Saboteur/ Valor 25/ LV 39

 

I cover outside of groups, and focus on another teammates focused target to keep the body count frequent and quick moving. Note, that I only use this when convenient, and when I feel that I will be able to go unnoticed by the enemy group. So, in cover:

 

Sabotage charge

Shock Charge

Flourish Shot

Vital Shot

Speed shot

 

Out of cover:

Most of my time is spent out of cover. With being a saboteur my focus is my thermal grenade. I use quick shot while thermal grenade is on a short cool down, and rotate. While running cool head to keep my energy level from getting low. I also run defense screen along with it for the sake of being efficient with Sabotage. I then cut the cool down for both of those by tossing Sabotage out while gaining a little bit of extra damage. Now I haven't seen a lot of saboteurs run defense screen or cool head, but it just works for me. I last longer in battles, and can become a bear for even level 50's to take down (not that I have to deal with that anymore thanks to the patch).

 

Now when being pursued, I use flash bomb or leg shot to gain distance between the enemy, and take them for a ride while running Shock Charge, Flourish Shot, Vital Shot, Thermal Grenade, Quick Shot, Thermal Grenade, Quick Shot... You get the picture. Being an aggressive DPS class, I want to get off as much damage before I hit the ground. Hence why I love cool head and defense screen. It really allows me to get that much more work done.

 

Classes that give me actual trouble? Operatives. They are brutal. Basically, I have no real answer for them. I hit them with my health depleting moves and usually hit the ground. Ha, sad I know.

 

Gear specs. Cunning (duh), and critical. I'm not 100% sure if that is appropriate for my advanced class, so please tell me if I am wrong. But I pack a major punch.

 

In closing, I love the Smuggler class, and I love the Saboteur play style. It's aggressive, and quick moving for the most part. I always walk away from PVP matches with 100K+ damage dealt, and 30-40 kills. I am excited to see how much better I do at LV 50.

 

Good luck out there!

[RolyartNala]

I do well in PVP as a Dirty Fighting spec "run & gun" sort of Gunslinger. I have cover, I use it at times, but I'm not bound to it for pwning---I'm very mobile and can pwn just fine on the run. Now that I'm in mostly champion gear I can solo kill pretty much whomever I want, with the exception of geared healers or tanks that know what they are doing.

 

And there is a special joy in starting a fight against a meleer from cover, having him run up on you as though he's got you now, and then just kicking him in the junk, loading him up with DOTs, and kiting him until he dies.

 

Dirty Fighting, once geared, is good at:

• Mobile combat
  
• Area suppression/guarding nodes
  
• CCing large groups of bad guys at once
  
• kiting---and not just good at kiting, but outstanding at it
  
• Burning down a single target rapidly
  

 

To use a WoW analogy, for those of you that played that game, a DF 'slinger is a cross between a marksman hunter and an affliction warlock.

[justntrue]

I'm speced fully into SS atm, at level 37 and valour ranked 19.

 

 

My method to success in warzone, so far, is based on fundamental understanding of how my sharpshooter prof operates.

 

My first rule of thumb, is never never never run into a group.

 

My second rule of thumb, is always approach using LOS to limit exposure. I try, in general, to get to a location where my vision is open and looking down, preferably, and my back is protected by either walls, pillars, ramps (avoids leap crap), or it's our sides spawn point.

 

From a vantage point, such as this, I can generally focus my attention on potential targets.

Obviously, you're never 100% safe, but, I try at the beginning of warzones and every time I die to get positional security before attempting to make a kill.

 

With positional defence, you can then focus your attention on picking targets.

 

For the best kill success rate I choose in order of preference:

 

1. Any obvious target: cappers, ball handers, bomb/bridge builders, etc.

2. 50% health or lower targets

3. any target with less than 80% health

4. targets moving or facing NOT in my direction

5. any target who has targetted me

 

In every MMO I've played, and even in real life situations, the greatest effect you can possibly have is to eliminate targets. Dead people don't contribute to fights, so, focussing fire is by far the greatest method of producing PVP success.

 

I dont go for solo kills, or play hero. I go for quick kills, eliminating whoever has lost health already. I don't worry too much about the level of my target, 50's, 40's, 20's, whatever. I don't get intimidated, and if I die I come back.

 

In general, I try to sitck with at least one other person. Almost any other prof is a valuable companion, but some just don't complement your toolset, the worst are sentinels. But anyone that can CC, heal, guard or do fast ranged DD with me is great.

 

Thats my scene. I enjoy the sharpshooter class - except for the buggy as hell cover. It's tough to play, and it's extremely glass cannon-ey, but, if you can pick positional defence before a fight starts, you're halfway to producing some decent kills.

[stohliak]

Since the patch I have noticed less ability lag and lag entering and exiting cover. THis has allowed me to absolutly own on a Sniper and my Slinger. The big thing about playing with cover in PvP is knowing when to use it and when to pop out and kite which is possible.

 

I usually just go in for a fast snipe or to drop a charge, then drop out snare and run and gun. They get close I stun, cover snipe/ambush/followthrough and run and gun. If they're not dead by then I've missed out on some crits.

 

Most people aren't used to the mechanic but it fits the class well and actually fits well in the SW universe with how many situations Han Solo was in firing from cover.

 

I love the class and mechanic.

[Fairuza]

You can't compare lvl10-49 PvP with lvl50 endgame PvP. Right now, Gunslinger is broken in endgame. Speccing into DF doesn't change that. You just avoid the broken mechanics a little bit.

 

Cover without Hunker Down is just useless and just says "here I am, gank me now!". Even if you have Hunker Down ready, it already takes you 2 clicks to set it up. In this time you are already CCed or got hitted several times. Pulse Detonation is still buggy and doesnt always work. Even if you manage to push your enemy a few meters away, he will close the gap in no time, due to force leap or vanish. Vanish... another joke. How many times do I see people vanish in front of my eyes with at least 2 dots on them? Another broken mechanic. Snare is utterly useless in SWTOR. Right now there are simply too many downsides.

 

During the beta I played a lvl50 Scoundrel and he was so more effective in making damage and in avoiding damage. The Gunslinger has neither of that. Damage is ok, if you go DF and do lots of ae dmg, but in avoiding damage this class just sucks and need serious improvement.